Hybrids For 2016

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Can't wait to fly the most expensive E motor ever.
smile.png
Click to expand...

+1 for pics and a launch report. I've been interested in some of these really expensive E engines myself.
 
I was not aware of it - Am now, thanks! I generally have not been aware of the discussion groups, how to be aware when discussions are underway, etc.
As a person just stepping into hybrids, I will toss a question or two into the discussion group.
 
My gathering of stuff to make the mini hybrid motor go boom is almost complete. Here's the BOM so far:

Mini Hybrid lightweight motor hardware $94 (+$7.95 S&H) Micronitrorocketry.com
Propellant Mandrel: Precision Ground 3/8” Aluminum Rod 12” Length $15 Amazon
018 Silicone O-Ring 100 pack $8.16 Amazon
009 Buna-N O-Ring 100 pack $2.08 Amazon
3M Super 77 Multi-Purpose Spray Adhesive $5.82 Amazon
Scotch Postal Wrapping Paper 30”x30’ $5.49 Amazon
DuPont Krytox Grease 0.5oz Tube $14.99 Amazon
16g Whip Cream Chargers (15 ct) $34.49 Amazon

Please note that by shopping around you will likely get better prices on whip cream chargers and mandrels, I am simply someone who has made peace with his Amazon dependency and doesn't care anymore. The expensive as heck Krytox grease can also possibly be ignored by simply using a new o-ring each firing, but I've never used krytox so I figured why not check it out.

The guide recommends making burst discs out of soda bottle PET or ping pong balls using a specially sized punch that I don't have; I'm going to try to hand cut a couple and see if I can maintain a good nitrous seal that way, worst case is I vent a cartridge to atmosphere.

I will also make my first pre-heater grains by cutting up a mid power reload. I also bought some random crap to make igniters with but I will save that for later.

I’m going with simple paper grains since it’s super easy to start with, there are also some research recipes in the guide so be careful where you post details of the file. This morning I rolled four 7-8" wide lengths of paper grains, which was pretty easy (if messy with spray glue) and should yield about 8 firings worth of fuel. Next time I will just use watered down wood glue (way cheaper and easier to control). Tomorrow I'll use a small mitre/hand saw to cut the grains to length and make sure they fit well.
 
Looking at the Tripoli Records pages, it looks like a bunch of hybrid records are unclaimed.

Anyone up for a record attempt this year? Someone needs to things started...
 
The new Tripoli rules state that all flights within 10% of the record will be listed. That opens it up a bit, and should result in many more people having their flights listed.

The RATT K240 rocket that I'm in the early design stages in RockSim is simming out at about 11k ft. For me RockSim is usually a bit 'generous', so I will be pleased if I can exceed 10k when it's built.
 
Worsaer said:
The RATT K240 rocket that I'm in the early design stages in RockSim is simming out at about 11k ft. For me RockSim is usually a bit 'generous', so I will be pleased if I can exceed 10k when it's built.
Click to expand...

Bill , now you got me thinking. I think I could challenge that K record (0 ft AGL) with a Contrail K265 with minimum diameter cardboard rocket with a chilled N20 fill. I'd have to use a Raven altimeter though, how distasteful....
 
I'd hope you could get more than 11K out of the K250...

Back when someone was going for the I records with SRS equipment I remember them filling and dumping the tank a couple of times to chill the nitrous down and increase the dIsp. Hybrid records are a bit of a misnomer, because you really never know how much nitrous is in the tank and no standard way of measuring it.

Edward
 
I think I can get in excess of 13K with a min-diam 54mm Contrail based on OR sims. That's before playing with chilled N20 et al. That would be in "thick air" midwest/east coast sites. You guys who fly in the mountains have an unfair advantage :).
 
jderimig said:
I think I can get in excess of 13K with a min-diam 54mm Contrail based on OR sims. That's before playing with chilled N20 et al. That would be in "thick air" midwest/east coast sites. You guys who fly in the mountains have an unfair advantage :).
Click to expand...

The M900 that I flew for my L3 was the case, composite fincan (3 fins) and 12" of airframe plus a Von Karman Nosecone. I used fly away rail guides on the rail. For a K250 I'm sure I could take 6" off of the airframe just for parachute considerations. Too bad our club's shared K250 went ballistic.

Edward
 
smapdiage9 said:
My gathering of stuff to make the mini hybrid motor go boom is almost complete. Here's the BOM so far:

Mini Hybrid lightweight motor hardware $94 (+$7.95 S&H) Micronitrorocketry.com
Propellant Mandrel: Precision Ground 3/8” Aluminum Rod 12” Length $15 Amazon
018 Silicone O-Ring 100 pack $8.16 Amazon
009 Buna-N O-Ring 100 pack $2.08 Amazon
3M Super 77 Multi-Purpose Spray Adhesive $5.82 Amazon
Scotch Postal Wrapping Paper 30”x30’ $5.49 Amazon
DuPont Krytox Grease 0.5oz Tube $14.99 Amazon
16g Whip Cream Chargers (15 ct) $34.49 Amazon

Please note that by shopping around you will likely get better prices on whip cream chargers and mandrels, I am simply someone who has made peace with his Amazon dependency and doesn't care anymore. The expensive as heck Krytox grease can also possibly be ignored by simply using a new o-ring each firing, but I've never used krytox so I figured why not check it out.

The guide recommends making burst discs out of soda bottle PET or ping pong balls using a specially sized punch that I don't have; I'm going to try to hand cut a couple and see if I can maintain a good nitrous seal that way, worst case is I vent a cartridge to atmosphere.

I will also make my first pre-heater grains by cutting up a mid power reload. I also bought some random crap to make igniters with but I will save that for later.

I’m going with simple paper grains since it’s super easy to start with, there are also some research recipes in the guide so be careful where you post details of the file. This morning I rolled four 7-8" wide lengths of paper grains, which was pretty easy (if messy with spray glue) and should yield about 8 firings worth of fuel. Next time I will just use watered down wood glue (way cheaper and easier to control). Tomorrow I'll use a small mitre/hand saw to cut the grains to length and make sure they fit well.
Click to expand...

So how is this project coming along? Have you burned one yet?
 
I cut the first grain off of one of my paper fuel sticks to begin test assembly, and used an xacto to cut a pre-heater grain out of an F39 reload I have laying around.

I'm ordering some PET sheet from amazon which I realized I can cut perfect burst discs from using my laser cutter without having to buy a specialized punch, but until that gets here I'm gonna try rough some soda bottle plastic tonight to get my first full assembly done this evening. The only problem with the Amazon sheet is that it's 0.020" instead of the desired 0.010" but we'll see whether that impacts the ability of the preheater to burn through it. If that works and holds pressure, then I should get my first static firing done within 24 hours. Pics (and hopefully video!) to follow.
 
So, for 3" hybrid hardware we are left with Contrail or HyperTEK... Contrail 3" hardware is tempting. Anyone have feedback on the 3" hardware? I have asked a number of times over the years, but I guess the cost of reloads keeps me away. However, I would be looking at research with the hardware anyway, and would prefer not to develope my own at this time.

Regarding the Contrail 40" long hardware... can an L-class motor be squeezed out of the components?

And of course then there is the 64mm hardware from RATTWorks...
 
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For 3" hardware I prefer to upscale the RATT 2.5" hardware. I have an 3" N that sims to over 40k. It is just a long tube and 12" of airframe plus a nosecone. Total all in cost to me is approximately $200. I'm using a pinned closure system.

Edward
 
Alas, I must explain my dilemma... I was running a high fever yesterday (was home sick) when I typed that last reply, but essentially I was re-watching all of legranddudu's videos on youtube, and it got me thinking 75mm hybrids again. Here is the original thread I started some 3-years ago:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?50504-Contrail-75mm-Fit-Form-amp-Function

I may opt for the 2050cc motor system from Contrail. Not sure if I will get all three nozzles, or just the med speed nozzle.
 
It seems that the 2050 is kind of heavy, I have seen a few fly and the K-888 load the most impressive in that motor, the other's seem to "stuggle" a bit. I think Contrail's 75mm sweet spot is in the 3200cc versions. For what its worth....
 
jderimig said:
It seems that the 2050 is kind of heavy, I have seen a few fly and the K-888 load the most impressive in that motor, the other's seem to "stuggle" a bit. I think Contrail's 75mm sweet spot is in the 3200cc versions. For what its worth....
Click to expand...

You may be right, I had heard that the 3200 motor was much more versatile. 53" of motor consumes alot of airframe. If I go this toute, I'll need to design a rocket to fit... surely not one in m,y arsenal that can take that much motor.
 
From back-in-the-day, at Balls 16, a video of an O-class hybrid that I really liked... love that characteristic hybrid long burn:

[video=youtube;1PPcbOw9Kig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PPcbOw9Kig[/video]
 
Good timing on this thread, as I'm looking at Hybrids again for this year. 2015 was my Cert year, so I need something new and different for 2016.

Those 29mm RATTworks motors, any experience on flying converted Estes PSII rockets with them? I'm considering one for my Scion. I'll have to run some numbers.

-Hans


Edit: H70 looks like a good match. Either of the I's is too long with a center mounted av-bay.
 
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"The RATT K240 rocket that I'm in the early design stages in RockSim is simming out at about 11k ft. For me RockSim is usually a bit 'generous', so I will be pleased if I can exceed 10k when it's built"

What about LDRS 2016, for hybrid record attempts? Not alot of us out there, this may be a good opportunity to get together and do some serious hybrids, the question is can we "collectively' launch a H,I,J,K,L, and M hybrid, looking for records along the way?

I have (2) complete GSE and access to (2) more. Lucerne is ideal, cool in the mornings, 2,800 foot 'head start' and a 19,000 AGL waiver.

My plan for hybrids at LDRS is to launch RATT H80,I90, I90, K240(2X dual launch), M900, Skyripper K, Contrail M1491, and an Aerotech 54mm hybrid.

Mike K
 
From my figuring (too many sims between hybrid design programs and RasAero), if one really wants to get the most out of an EX hybrid, the waiver is insufficient over that motor size range. My EX M hybrid was designed for 21Kft from a bit closer to sea level, but then the higher NY waiver was cancelled. At 21K design altitude I did not max what the hardware would be capable of. YMMV.

Gerald
 
Salvage-1 said:
need to get my AT Hybrid up and running. Got all the schematics, just need a disk and pellet.
Click to expand...


Aerotech sold a kit of ignition parts and if you could find one of those you would be set. I still have two reloads and three of the ignition kits left. I only every needed one because you never make that mistake twice. :)

Still waiting for Aerotech to start up hybrid production again.
 
UhClem - you will be waiting a long, long time :)

Johhnie - have you flow the 54mm system of mine yet?

Edward
 
Attached is an image of the fill stem/system that I use. It attaches to the side of the rail and keeps the hose from flopping around. You just attached a fitting to the fill hose and then that uses flare fittings to connect to the tank.

The nice thing is that with the elbows and bends it puts the connecting right in the middle of the 1010 rail. Then you just use the 1/8" pipe and slide it to the correct diameter of motor. A 6" nipple will handle rockets up to 7.5" diameter with ease.

DSC00745.JPG

Edward
 

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