Hybrids For 2016

Just finished testing a full O hybrid. 6" diameter, 100" long motor. The tank holds just over 30 pounds of N2O. This was a different concept for me because it uses my second generation U/C valve and also has the tank vent controlled by an servo plug valve. This allows me to fill the tank full of nitrous, close the vent and then build the pressure to 750 psi before firing. The U/C valve fails at approximately 1250 PSI if there is a failure with the servo valve. I haven't pulled the grain out of the motor, but will do that soon and then slice it up for a regression analysis. The burn time was just over 12 seconds of liquid, with a long tail off after that. It produced 750 pounds thrust average, with just around 900 to start. I'm decently close to my design parameters so I'm going to refine this and then fire it again.

AlphaHybrids said:

Just finished testing a full O hybrid. 6" diameter, 100" long motor. The tank holds just over 30 pounds of N2O. This was a different concept for me because it uses my second generation U/C valve and also has the tank vent controlled by an servo plug valve. This allows me to fill the tank full of nitrous, close the vent and then build the pressure to 750 psi before firing. The U/C valve fails at approximately 1250 PSI if there is a failure with the servo valve. I haven't pulled the grain out of the motor, but will do that soon and then slice it up for a regression analysis. The burn time was just over 12 seconds of liquid, with a long tail off after that. It produced 750 pounds thrust average, with just around 900 to start. I'm decently close to my design parameters so I'm going to refine this and then fire it again.

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Video?

dixontj93060 said:

Video?

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The video turned out black because I didn't set it it aperature to automatic. It was on way too high an F-stop. Also my first time using a USB based camera.

I'm going through the data now and refurbishing. I think all my injector will need reworking - soot traveled back into the tank so that is a lot of cleaning.

Edward

So my club has the GSE already, so I figured, why not!

I was going to start with a 29mm I80, other than electronic deploy, longer motor tube and more space below the Av bay bulkhead any other tips?

My biggest question is how do you vent out the side? Design wise.

AlphaHybrids said:

The video turned out black because I didn't set it it aperature to automatic. It was on way too high an F-stop. Also my first time using a USB based camera.

I'm going through the data now and refurbishing. I think all my injector will need reworking - soot traveled back into the tank so that is a lot of cleaning.

Edward

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Ever think of using a check valve?

Mike K

kramer714 said:

Ever think of using a check valve?

Mike K

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For the injector style you can't use a check valve. I have 32 orifices that are connected by a 1.5" diameter port directly to the oxidizer tank portion of the motor. This is a monotube hybrid with a modified U/C injector.

Edward

LDRS build
Double RATT details so far

-All of the pieces cut, need finishing and bonding
-3d printed avionics bay
- ended up using a fin box (see picture), as opposed to regular fins. Fin 'box' needs to be sanded, final trim, and bonded
-Aligning the upper motor mounts I plan to use the motors as a guide
-I have a design of a 'hose holder' to make sure if one lights it doesn't drag the hoses with the rocket

I still need a catchy name, thinking of calling it "11"... because every one knows that 11 is louder

Mike K

P.S. anyone else launching Hybrids at LDRS? John is bringing out his Contrail, on deck for me for LDRS is, RATT H, RATT I, AeroTech Hybrid I, RATT J, RATT K, Skyripper K, Contrail M

I was hoping to fly this at Dairy Aire, but not sure if it will be ready... Perhaps LDRS.

Built around a RATT Works K240, using a Monterey Machine fin can and 3" Blue Tube. For electronics an RRC3, and a BRB 70 cm GPS in the nose cone.

As luck would have it, a Contrail L800 hybrid was set to be launched at this past weekends HARA launch in Manchester, TN. Had I not been dealing with my daughters Prom stuffs, I would have made every effort to attend. No word yet as to how that flight turned out...

So yeah, nothing to report right...? Not quite - the launch was originally deemed a "research" launch because it was thought that all hybrids were out of cert. A minor issue that was quickly resolved, as the individual was able to check on cert status. But yes, it has been so long that a hybrid had been launched at a local field that it was assumed that "all hybrids" had gone by the way side and were no longer up to date on certs. I hope that the L800 flight went without a hitch, and I hope it showed everyone that hybrids are indeed still in cert, and that they are still quite awesome!!

The L800 had a nominal flight. It had a smooth burn. If you didn't know it was a hybrid, you would think it was a solid. (The Contrail does not appear to have distinct sound that a Hypertek would make when under thrust.)

Mike,

I see you are the Hybrid Coordinator for LDRS this year. Anything we should know in advance?

mwtoelle said:

The L800 had a nominal flight. It had a smooth burn. If you didn't know it was a hybrid, you would think it was a solid. (The Contrail does not appear to have distinct sound that a Hypertek would make when under thrust.)

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Thanks for the update Mike, I really wish I could have been there to see the return of Hybrids to Manchester.

Just wondering : how "healthy" is Contrail ? Is the production steady as far as we know? Any significant risk of seeing them going out of business in the next 2-3 years?
Did anyone encounter issue getting HW or reloads ?

While I think about getting the 54mm version (which is not THAT expensive), I would hate running out of parts/reload the year right after I buy it.

Julien

Here is the info I got direct from the owner fall of last year. He said to call any time, and he could fill most any order.

Thomas Sanders
President
Contrail Rockets LLC.
2100 College Dr. Suite 122
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
[email protected]
Phone (928) 208-5580
Fax (928) 680-2797

Julien,

They (Contrail) seem just fine. I have on the way at the moment a replacement 18" 75mm, some 75mm reloads some 54mm hardware pieces and some 54mm reloads. They had some hardware (the combustion chamber) out at the anodiser's when I ordered but things were done up and on the way quick. Just get a hold of Thomas and get passing gas!!

Jason

julienvary said:

Just wondering : how "healthy" is Contrail ? Is the production steady as far as we know? Any significant risk of seeing them going out of business in the next 2-3 years?
Did anyone encounter issue getting HW or reloads ?

While I think about getting the 54mm version (which is not THAT expensive), I would hate running out of parts/reload the year right after I buy it.

Julien

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This is going to fly next weekend. First time in 2 years I'll have the window for it. N motor, ~15,000Ns, 3" minimum diameter. Rocket is 108" long. Should go to 32,000'.



Edward

AlphaHybrids said:

This is going to fly next weekend. First time in 2 years I'll have the window for it. N motor, ~15,000Ns, 3" minimum diameter. Rocket is 108" long. Should go to 32,000'.

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32K?!

And is that a digital printed fincan?

majordude said:

32K?!

And is that a digital printed fincan?

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Yes, 32,000'. And that is after adding some mass to keep it under the 35,000' waiver.

No, not a digital printed fincan. It is autoclaved carbon fiber fins on a section of airframe. I've found that these long L/D rockets the fincans tend to be single use. I flew a similar M900 rocket (2.5" minimum diameter) three times and each time I had to make a new fincan. Upon landing when they tip over there is a large moment arm on them and it tended to snap something.

It doesn't take too long to make a new one, maybe 2 hours worth of work.

Edward

Ok, so I have a really basic question . I am new to hybrids and in my searching I can not find any resources that discuss what kind of GSE is required for the Rattworks motors. So what GSE would be needed to launch these motors? My club has GSE for the Hypertek system would that work?

Yes your club's GSE will work. You may need an adapter for the nitrous fill hose. But that is easy to make. I am going to soon make a video explaining what you need to make an adapter. You need to find out what they have for a fill hose. It is most likely 4AN or 6AN hose. You will need to make an adapter from their fill hose to your motor's fill tube. You also need to make sure they have a full bottle of nitrous oxide.

For those who might be interested, I have asked Thomas (of Contrail ) what was the status of Contrail and what would be needed to fit the motors to my club Hypertek GSE.

The answer:

I have recently purchased full control of Contrail Rockets (bought out my son) I have been manufacturing for over 12 years and continue to supply flyers world wide. The website is dismal and due to be updated. The factory is being relocated to and I have some new motors in the works. All motors are available except the 38mm HP reloads as demand dropped when we came out with the PVC threaded reloads. Look at the TMT testing video and see the Mach diamonds.

You can use the fill side of a hypertek system leaving the O2 off and use a standard igniter on the pyrodex pellets. We use a 24 volt resistor for ignition on the existing contrail motors. I have been working on a 12 volt ignition method while still using Pyrodex pellets.

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According to Pratt-Hobbies ULS-M2, a standard GSE will fit anything but hypertek
https://pratt-hobbies.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ULS-M2

The ULS M-1 and M-2 combination are all you need to fill and fire RATT Works, Contrail Rockets, Propulsion Polymers, West Coast Hybrids, and SkyRipper Systems motors. [...]For non-pyrotechnic motors (HyperTEK) the ULS M-3 GOX/HV Module and a fill stem are required.

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Here is my latest video on how to hook up your non-hypertek u/c valve hybrid motor to hybrid GSE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbUNEpiYlio For a small fee I can make adapters for you if you give me the specs of what you want.

I also offer a vent sensor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQFo-DyOEa8 for sale

Here is the GSE that I sell [video=youtube;vh3V2MvVK-w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh3V2MvVK-w[/video]

Does anybody know what diameter the 300cc and 440cc tanks are from Hypertek?

karlbaum said:

Yes your club's GSE will work. You may need an adapter for the nitrous fill hose. But that is easy to make. I am going to soon make a video explaining what you need to make an adapter. You need to find out what they have for a fill hose. It is most likely 4AN or 6AN hose. You will need to make an adapter from their fill hose to your motor's fill tube. You also need to make sure they have a full bottle of nitrous oxide.

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Thank you! That is very helpful.

rocketjet787 said:

Does anybody know what diameter the 300cc and 440cc tanks are from Hypertek?

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These will fit 54mm tanks unless you find the older "hammerhead" style of tanks.

karlbaum said:

I also offer a vent sensor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQFo-DyOEa8 for sale

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Karl, what are you using for the logic and control? Your system looks familiar.

My sixteen year old son does the electronics for the vent sensor. I believe it uses an AT tiny. He uses an arduino to program it. It also has a voltage regulator and a resistor. It is a simple circuit. I got the basic concept from your vent sensor design but I wanted it in a box I could mount to a tri pod and also be able to integrate it into a launch control system. I think having a vent sensor is very helpful in determining if your flight tank is full which is critical in a launch procedure.

karlbaum said:

My sixteen year old son does the electronics for the vent sensor. I believe it uses an AT tiny. He uses an arduino to program it. It also has a voltage regulator and a resistor. It is a simple circuit. I got the basic concept from your vent sensor design but I wanted it in a box I could mount to a tri pod and also be able to integrate it into a launch control system. I think having a vent sensor is very helpful in determining if your flight tank is full which is critical in a launch procedure.

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Excellent. I am glad you picked this project up and continue to develop the concept.