Indiana MAC Performance FIRESTICK XL BF build - info always appreciated

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Nick@JET

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EDIT Flight reports
QCRS on a J330 to 3800'

2nd flight 3Oaks on a K515 to 7600' trees for 2 months, Rocket survived! (Loaded weight 11.7lbs)

3rd flight - AMA Muncie Indy Rockets on a J244 to 3645'

4th Flight - 3Oaks 4-23-17 J250W DMS - 3053' off vertical flight

Since LDRS, i've wanted a MAC Performance canvas phenolic rocket of some sort, but not having a tracker means i had to put off anything that would go over 4K. The tracker is the missing link - no camera and no speed until tracker. I've picked up a solid tracker (garmin astro) also waiting on the Missleworks RTx. I called Mike at MAC Performance and you talk about great service - i actually called the weekend before and he called me back quickly, answered all my questions and even gave me the BF deal prior to , thanks Mike if you read this.

Since a small launch at Purdy north site in IN with Gary and John from Chicago and seeing what they brought and flew, it just kinda hit me - im done with cardboard rockets unless they are reinforced - so i love what I have but from here on out - they will be able to withstand some forces.

In this build , my plan is to take pictures of the build without trying to smooth things out - it is what it is pics so you can see the progression. I'm not the greatest and making perfectly smooth fillets - never injected fillets, so as always this is a learning techniques process. My problem is not my plan - but I get impatient and want to see the finished product that i tend to rush things and it costs me on the back end.

My plan after L2 is Mach, Mile, Mach 1.5, 2 mile etc..:
- MAC Firestick XL - 54mm mount, I wanted a 4FNC with a boat tail.
- Missle works RRC2 and RRC3
- One Bad hawk harnesses - custom longer length incase the firestick lands in a tree - yes I have a tree story and would like to avoid that :no:
- CTI K515 / 445 from CountyLine Hobbies
- Rocketpoxy from County Line
- Aeropack RA54P retainer
- some type of camera - asked for Christmas from my wife :)
- Actually make one of my rockets look good - hopefully make Eric Merrel not run away in horror (this is subjective of course)
- alittle love from Stickershock23

received the MAC Firestick really fast - literally 3 days from the order.

opened and MAN do I love this canvas! reminds me of older circuit board material
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of course I had to dry fit - bam - I broke the fin alignment jig - alittle bob smith and was back in business. This rocket is SO quality - it fit together so nice I just couldn't wait to start....man I know how a rocket goes together...I don't need no stinking instructions...They were wonderfully done by the way...but this would comeback to disturb me. I'm really smarter than that but i just couldn't wait. Note to others, READ the instructions.

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The only thing i was not real crazy about is the nylon harness next to the motor but easy enough to cover with a nomex sleeve.
 
Bought my favorite retainer - an Aeropack RA54P and JB welded it on - which was the mistake i made - too early in the instructions. i gave the retainer 1/4 turn to seat the JB Weld then re-read the instructions after the retainer was on OH NO WHAT HAVE I DONE. Really wasn't that big a deal to slide everything down from the top. Using Bob Smith 15 min - just cause i really like the strength. Waiting for the rocketpoxy for the fillets.

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The motor mount went together nicely - the aeropack fit perfect. Since the canvas booster will slide onto the boattail i will no longer be able to see where the centering rings will be so I did alittle drawing and measurement for my rail buttons once they are ready to go on.

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the fins are beautiful and smooth - so I decided to sand the fins down with 100 grit on the root and the fillet areas. Mixed up some Bob Smith 15 minute with Chopped carbon fiber given to me by our TAP Gustav P. Thanks Gus. I used just a pinch as instructed so that the carbon fiber will work like rebar in the epoxy mix. almost looks like I could use more - but any more and the epoxy winds up very thick.

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the blue tape was to hold the fins inward, squeezing the root of the fins toward the motor mount tube. The fin alignment guide was great for alignment but the fins were moving outward a bit when installing the tight fit guide.
 
Installed the motor mount into the canvas booster with the chopped carbon epoxy mix - looks like it distributed nicely.

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Drilled the holes and injected the fillets. In hind site, I should've drilled 2 holes to better supply the internal fillet to the root - don't like this because I can't see how well the internal filet was across the root. These fins are going anywhere - but someday I want to push this rocket.

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Now for the fillets and my first time using Rocketpoxy. I decided to use the black pigment just to see how much and what it would look like even though i plan on painting over it. Man RS smells much better than BS 15 min. It comes out thick but once mixed seams to soften somewhat. So I sanded the areas down and taped them up. Decided not to use a PVC dowel, because i was in a hotel room and it was going to get done - so some Popsicle stick and a rubber glove.

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Since we had a couple days of warmth - was able to sand - filler prime - sand filler prime, repeat a couple more times. That is where my fillet techniques shows all the bad spots, yuck. looks like more sanding.

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Also had to fill the inject holes and wanted to do that with epoxy - not pretty. So I broke out an air sander and made pretty quick work of them.

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Now back to 220 grit, then 400 grit.

And this is were the build may slow a little - its around Christmas with the family and pretty busy over the next couple weeks.

Next up is marking and drilling all my vent holes, pressure holes for the Alt, rail button holes and shear pin holes (not sure if I will use them or just friction fit - but I want the holes there prior to painting).
 
Lined up the rocket and marked all my holes.

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Got another coat of filler primer on the fincan and looking much better - i still have some filler and smoothing to do.

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Thanks Dixon!

was able to continue the build after getting back in town - on a little break with my family.

Next on the build was to drill all the holes in the airframe. I was thinking of - Friction Fit, single vent hole in the booster, AV bay and Payload since that is the way ive done it in the past. However, this is kinda my flagship rocket - the nicest quality rocket i have and want to do a quality job. I'm typically a build and fly - looks good from 100ft rule - then fine. Before I swiss cheese the rocket i decided to call email Mike @ MAC since in the instructions he suggested 3 vent holes in each section. I didn't want to be "that guy" has a hundred questions - so I emailed him on New Years day hoping to get an answer in the next week or so... but that's not how he rolls - so he calls me 10 minutes later...on NEW YEARS DAY wow - that is service over and above. I just really wanted to learn before I drilled and after a conversation with Mike at MAC I realized i should shear pin and rivet instead of being lazy, not to mention I want to push the envelope with this rocket in future flights. Have many mile stones I want to hit.

Things I learned....
1. freakin do it right - shear pin it :)
2. the vents in the booster and payload will allow air to pass during deployment so won't try and pull a vacuum during separation. I never really looked at it like that - more thought it was just for pressure changes during the ascent of the flight and prevent internal pressure from pushing the rocket apart. So I decided to go with the 3 vents suggested with .093" bit.
3. Canvas doesn't change size like other materials as temp and humidity changes - but still will shear pin

So before I was going to drill (6) shear pin holes, (3) rivet holes, (6) vent holes in air frame, (3) vent holes in AV bay and (2) rail button holes - i had better draw a little guide.

Wrapped a piece of paper around the circumference of the rocket - measured and divided by 3 so I can mark 3 lines 120 degrees apart along the rocket to provide the lines for all my holes - could've done this with payloadbay.com as well.

Adams MAC Firestick XL fit guide.jpg

marked all my lines

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used a drill guide from Doghouse - drilled the shear pin holes - rivet holes - vent holes - and rail button holes

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Threaded the 8-32 rail button holes - then test fitted on my rail to make sure they are not out of line. Haven't epoxied into place yet since I will be removing to paint and still have alot of little things to do on the rocket.

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fit was nice and smooth. next will be building the AV bay and figuring out a paint scheme.
 
Received my graphics from Stockershock - thanks Mark!

My wife bought me a #16 HD camera from BayouRat - this will be my first camera

Ordered a camera shroud from Landru - hopefully will get that fitted up soon.

Decided on WHITE - Flourescent Orange or Pink - Black for a color scheme. I like chrome accents as well - just need to come up with a design but I do have something in mind.
 
Thanks Gary,
I have a big work protect starting on 1/14 that may include that weekend - otherwise I want to try and finish to fly first flight at three oaks on the 16th on an J400 - otherwise will b told Feb launch. I have a K515 and K445 for it once it passes the first flight
 
These kits are awesome, aren't they?

Just a tip for your next one. If you epoxy on the top and middle CRs, then epoxy the MMT into the booster, you can use two-part pour foam in the fin can to make it virtually indestructible. Then put on the stepped thrust plate, and add the retainer last. Just make sure you measure out how much overhang you need for the retainer prior to gluing in the MMT.

If all of that is in the instructions, then please forgive the redundancy.
 
These kits are awesome, aren't they?

Just a tip for your next one. If you epoxy on the top and middle CRs, then epoxy the MMT into the booster, you can use two-part pour foam in the fin can to make it virtually indestructible. Then put on the stepped thrust plate, and add the retainer last. Just make sure you measure out how much overhang you need for the retainer prior to gluing in the MMT.

If all of that is in the instructions, then please forgive the redundancy.

Thanks for the tip John - foaming wasn't in the instructions. I could actually still foam the fin can since the space is completely closed off. This will definitely not be my last MAC so can at least incorporate that on the next build. The next MAC will be a special one and hopefully be shipping this spring. Good luck with your L3 project.



Ordered my nomex blankets from One Bad Hawk and starting on my AV bay tonight
 
Thanks Bob, I'll proly need a motor for it maybe like a 38-6gr J381 or a or a 38-5gr J285.

On with the build plan - AV BAY
- this will be my first redundant system, now I see why rocketry is getting $$$.
- drogueless for first flight - keeping it all visible so I can see how it falls
- RRC3 will be primary. Apogee. Main at 600 ft
- RRC2 will be backup. Apogee +1 or 2 sec. Main at 400 ft (may have to rethink, can't remember the settings)
- Hyperion 2S batteries LIPO for each Alt
- 110-220 switch for each circuit
- Doghouse Charge wells separated as far as possible
- CJ Igniters for each well wired seperatly
- 1.5 gr for primary main and drogue
- 2 gr for backup main and apogee

Somehow I think this is overkill but since I want to hit "Mile" stones - I want all safety necessary as it will fly out of site (which most of your are completely at home here - however I like low, loud, slow and totally visible...but I'm coming around)


Recovery gear -
- I used Onebadhawk custom Kevlar harness just to save a tad bit of weight - had Teddy sew in the swivel and eliminate the quick link for the motor / drogue side. This ended up not being the best decision on my part because it weighs and packs a little larger than planned. I'm not trying to make this as light as possible - but still could have chosen different material / swivel, just seams I really over killed that particular piece. No worries - still love the harness - very nice piece of work
 
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I'm preparing for my first redundant DD, too. I hadn't thought about making the back-up charge bigger than the primary, but that makes sense. If the primary can't get the laundry out, then you'd want a bigger charge the second time. But if you do get it out the first time, then the bigger charge just blows into the air.

Is this what people normally do?
 
I like this thread, because I am eyeing the same model for my next build.

Nifty drill guide. I can really use that.

What is the retainer on the motor mount? Aeropack?
 
- this will be my first redundant system, now I see why rocketry is getting $$$.

-Somehow I think this is overkill but since I want to hit "Mile" stones - I want all safety necessary as it will fly out of site

Lots of debate on this in other threads. I am in the "one altimeter is good enough" camp, with perhaps redundant matches per charge.

If this is going out of sight, I would focus my efforts on the tracker instead of the redunant altimeter systems. This then really opens you up to 1 mile, 2 mile, etc. That's just me.
 
P
I like this thread, because I am eyeing the same model for my next build.

Nifty drill guide. I can really use that.

What is the retainer on the motor mount? Aeropack?

Thanks - yes it is an Aeropack RA54 L I think - just has tape over it

Lots of debate on this in other threads. I am in the "one altimeter is good enough" camp, with perhaps redundant matches per charge.

If this is going out of sight, I would focus my efforts on the tracker instead of the redunant altimeter systems. This then really opens you up to 1 mile, 2 mile, etc. That's just me.

I'm more of the one Alt as well - it hurts a little to do fully redundant! Especially since I'm using up some Alts that I had planned for another build. Looks like another order from Missleworks and Perfectflight

My local TAP (Gus P.) Is of the opinion of blow it up or blow it out and his opinion matters to me, so i may even up the backup charge more :) the laundry WILL come out!

I do have a tracker - that will be going in the NC - which he the first flight for that so I'll keep it low to make sure everything works
So this will be my first redundant, first tracker and first camera.
 
I'm preparing for my first redundant DD, too. I hadn't thought about making the back-up charge bigger than the primary, but that makes sense. If the primary can't get the laundry out, then you'd want a bigger charge the second time. But if you do get it out the first time, then the bigger charge just blows into the air.

Is this what people normally do?

I've read where redundant backup charges are larger for some and I like that idea. I'm also reading where some others really up the charge more than I would - so I think I'll be plenty safe. This rocket is TOUGH I'm sure it could take much more BP
 
My local TAP (Gus P.) Is of the opinion of blow it up or blow it out and his opinion matters to me, so i may even up the backup charge more :) the laundry WILL come out!

"Blow it up or blow it out" is a cute expression, but in reality, the rocket never blows up. What happens is that the shock cord stretches to its limit, them snaps back, sometimes hitting the chute and either causing a zipper or mangling the shroud lines or both. Be careful not to use too much powder, nor too little.
 
Thanks Bob, I'll proly need a motor for it maybe like a 38-6gr J381 or a or a 38-5gr J285.

On with the build plan - AV BAY UPDATED RRC2 setting
- this will be my first redundant system, now I see why rocketry is getting $$$.
- drogueless for first flight - keeping it all visible so I can see how it falls
- RRC3 will be primary. Apogee. Main at 600 ft
- RRC2 will be backup. Apogee +1 or 2 sec. Main at 400 ft (400' is not available on RRC2 only 300, 500, 800 or 1000' so I will go with 500')
- Hyperion 2S batteries LIPO for each Alt
- 110-220 switch for each circuit
- Doghouse Charge wells separated as far as possible
- CJ Igniters for each well wired seperatly
- 1.5 gr for primary main and drogue
- 2 gr for backup main and apogee

Somehow I think this is overkill but since I want to hit "Mile" stones - I want all safety necessary as it will fly out of site (which most of your are completely at home here - however I like low, loud, slow and totally visible...but I'm coming around)


Recovery gear -
- I used Onebadhawk custom Kevlar harness just to save a tad bit of weight - had Teddy see in the swivel and eliminate the quick link for the motor / drogue side. This ended up not being the best decision on my part because it weighs and packs a little larger than planned. I'm not trying to make this as light as possible since - but still could have chosen different material / swivel, just seams I really over killed that particular piece. No worries - still love the harness - very nice piece of work

...
 
Made progress tonight on the AV Bay - I have not installed any switches - decided not to go with the 110, 220 switch - the protrude into the AV bay to far for my comfort in a 3" especially since the redundant bay also didn't want the back up arming switch to be against the rail. So going with screw switches and mount on the sled - however I don't have any so ordering them tonight - if i don't have time to install will twist wires for the first flight. Also chose the Low Frequency Beep since there will be (2) Missleworks alts beeping out altitude - that would be confusing to say the least, that is a cool simple little feature of the RRC2. I envision one day having an LCD on the rocket to display the altitude and flight characteristics - but that is a dream for another rocket and another time.

I also haven't set up the RRC3 to fire the main at 600' yet since it defaults to 500' - however the back up is also set to 500'. See some posts saying they fire primary and back up at same and they really never fire at the identical time so i think it would be ok but don't want to take the risk. Unfortunately don't have my dongle with me - so will have to put that on the "to do" list.

In the pics the RRC2 is crooked - however I hadn't tightened it down yet - so it is straight and there is plenty of room between the board and the all thread.

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on to the nose cone bulkhead attachment so I can throw the tracker in the NC. Using JB weld for that junction - but will not be able to finish that until this weekend.

Then should be ready to ground test. I know from feedback from Mike @ MAC that 1.5 gram of 4F is the correct deployment charge amount since that is what he is using for (3) 2x56 nylon shear pins. I will still test and will also test the back up charges at 2 gram - Also I chose to go with 25' of harness instead of 20 and have 4 tape sets of loops so that also may slow the deployment down.
 
"Blow it up or blow it out" is a cute expression, but in reality, the rocket never blows up. What happens is that the shock cord stretches to its limit, them snaps back, sometimes hitting the chute and either causing a zipper or mangling the shroud lines or both. Be careful not to use too much powder, nor too little.

With enough skill though, anything is possible :smile: What do you get with very brittle, 20 year old phenolic 4'' tube, a sticky piston, and an accidentally oversized charge? A blown up rocket :roll::lol:
 
With enough skill though, anything is possible :smile: What do you get with very brittle, 20 year old phenolic 4'' tube, a sticky piston, and an accidentally oversized charge? A blown up rocket :roll::lol:

Well, yeah, a piston sort of changes things....
 
Nick@JET, another suggestion. Since you will probably be riveting or screwing the coupler to the payload tube, you might want to put your wingnuts on the booster side. That way you can open the AV bay and slide out the sled without removing your rivets.
 
Nick@JET, another suggestion. Since you will probably be riveting or screwing the coupler to the payload tube, you might want to put your wingnuts on the booster side. That way you can open the AV bay and slide out the sled without removing your rivets.

Ah thanks! I hadn't thought of that.
 
Im short on screw switches - so i decided to fill and sand fillets and booster tube alittle bit tonight. hit with 400 and prepped for another coat of primer.

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