Survey: Bitcoin familiarity and use

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Bitcoin:How familiar are you with Bitcoin?

  • Bitcoin? Never heard of it.

  • I have heard of it, but have no idea what it is or how it works.

  • Heard of it, but could not care less.

  • Heard of it, but do not trust money I cannot hold in my hands.

  • Heard of it, and it is interesting.

  • I know what it is and generally understand how virtual currency works.

  • I own Bitcoin, but have never used it for a transaction.

  • I own Bitcoin, but rarely use it for transactions.

  • I own it, and use it all the time.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Worsaer

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I recently attended an interesting forum wherein economists and industry leaders discussed Bitcoin, and it's potential impact on consumer payment choices and policy.

It seems that relatively few people are familiar with Bitcoin, and even less actlually have or use it. Since this sport and forum includes an interesting cross section of the public, I thought I'd throw this poll out there.
 
It is nearly impossible to even generate a coin anymore, unless you have good equipment. People are using specialized systems that most cant even afford to start out with. Sure you can use a desktop, but the mount of time and energy (power) used wont pay for it in the end.
 
It is nearly impossible to even generate a coin anymore, unless you have good equipment. People are using specialized systems that most cant even afford to start out with. Sure you can use a desktop, but the mount of time and energy (power) used wont pay for it in the end.
Exactly. And since the system was designed to be not easily traceable, guess what happens to the entire content of your Bitcoin account if your password is compromised via malware in your PC? Good luck getting any of that back.

From years ago, not a theft, just a major "oops":

Black Friday for owner after $8m in Bitcoin lost to landfill
James Howells wishes he could turn back time after throwing away a hard drive containing a fortune in Bitcoin

https://www.zdnet.com/article/black-friday-for-owner-after-8m-in-bitcoin-lost-to-landfill/
 
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I own bitcoin, but the wallet is on the HD of one of my old machines. (unpowered and in an enclosure so I can get files off of it if needed.) I'm not sure I even remember the encryption key for it. I have less than 1/2 a bitcoin I got as part of a mining pool from early-ish days of BTC mining when you could feasibly generate coins with a desktop machine.

Never spent any, tho.
 
I learned more in the past couple of days than I probably should admit. To emphasize the point of some of the previous posts...

> I didn't know that there's a finite supply of Bitcoin that can be mined in the existing algorithm, 21 million.
> To date, roughly 75% of available coins have been mined in 8 years.
> The algorithm reduces supply over time, meaning the remaining 25% will probably take many years, with fewer coins and longer time to mine them as time passes, depending on the combined computing power.
> The current 'reward' for mining is 25 BTC. (at $400 ea, that's quite an incentive.)
> Lost Bitcoin: "I forgot my password", or "My PC crashed" , the coins cannot be reclaimed.
> finally, I saw a graphic that showed something like 90% of existing Bitcoin is currently held in China, with the US declining over time. This is not just where it was mined, but also the migration based on transactions.

I'm a geek, so interesting stuff.


bitcoin_zpsqbt52z9c.jpg
 
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...I saw a graphic that showed something like 90% of existing Bitcoin is currently held in China...

Yeah, because it's all going to guys involved in Crypto ransomware. Bitcoin is synonymous with "sketchy", it's the 20teens equivalent of junk bonds. Run away, and don't look back. If only the bad guys own Bitcoin and nobody else will take it, it becomes worthless and the bad guys lose.
 
Yeah, because it's all going to guys involved in Crypto ransomware. Bitcoin is synonymous with "sketchy", it's the 20teens equivalent of junk bonds. Run away, and don't look back. If only the bad guys own Bitcoin and nobody else will take it, it becomes worthless and the bad guys lose.

X2 stay away..they are having cash issues right now whihc may help to keep away investors then it may go away. I am not opposed to the premise however as Cris pointed out it is being used by some real low life individuals and organizations and I would love to see them hurt where they hurt everyone else. I would bet the majority of the remaining 10% is in Russia.
 
Not only is the Bitcoin system itself extremely clever, but if you got into the generation of Bitcoins very early on as I sorely regret I didn't, you could could have easily generated out of thin air then what is a fortune today with run of the mill PC hardware as did the guy I linked to above who accidentally threw away the hard drive to the mid-grade laptop from years ago where he had generated with no effort what is now $8 million in Bitcoins.

Now, think of the personal wealth generated by the as yet unknown inventor of the Bitcoin system who was on the absolute ground floor of the idea. His brilliant formula: come up with a clever idea for a cryptocurrency that more people will eventually use, code it, then effortlessly generate early on what would become vast sums of crytocurrency as more people want and use it. Brilliant. No wonder the guy wants to remain anonymous.

The economical generation of Bitcoins these days is not possible for the typical person from what I read.
 
I am incredibly leery of any system where I can just run a program that generates random numbers that can possibly turned into currency. At least that is how I understand the "mining" process. Why would I want to be paid in currency for goods or services that someone else can just search for and find.
 
I am incredibly leery of any system where I can just run a program that generates random numbers that can possibly turned into currency. At least that is how I understand the "mining" process. Why would I want to be paid in currency for goods or services that someone else can just search for and find.

Think of mining more like calculating large prime numbers. Once one is found, you have to move on to the next one, which takes longer to find.
 
Once one is found, you have to move on to the next one, which takes longer to find.

Unlike our current currency system where an extra trillion or 2 can be created out of thin air. Not to mention the presses in some foreign countries which can print almost perfect US $20's and 100's. Crypto currency has an advantage there....
 
I am incredibly leery of any system where I can just run a program that generates random numbers that can possibly turned into currency. At least that is how I understand the "mining" process. Why would I want to be paid in currency for goods or services that someone else can just search for and find.
Because of the cryptological system used in their generation, it becomes progressively harder to generate Bitcoins from thin air. Eventually, as now, you need extremely powerful and power efficient computing systems to generate Bitcoins at less than the cost of the electricity used. Thus, unlike with our fractional reserve fiat monetary system, the actual number of Bitcoins in circulation is limited by the advancement of technology. The price per Bitcoin, as with the limited supply of gold, depends upon the number in circulation (supply) and demand for them.

https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-at-one-year-high-on-record-volumes/

The time to have gotten into their generation was relatively early on. I knew of them very early on because I'm a tech geek, but was too stupid to generate them. Nothing to lose, a FORTUNE to gain FROM THIN AIR, but my idiocy in control... Today, you buy them with legal tender and the price fluctuations can hurt if they are in the downward direction. If you had easily generated them from thin air early on, you pretty much wouldn't care because it would be all free money anyway.

If you own any significant amount of them, you'd better have them on an extremely secure system because by their very nature they'd be extremely difficult to trace if stolen and unlike your bank account there'd be no bank or law enforcement agency to investigate for you.
 
If you own any significant amount of them, you'd better have them on an extremely secure system because by their very nature they'd be extremely difficult to trace if stolen and unlike your bank account there'd be no bank or law enforcement agency to investigate for you.

Pretty much. Once a Bitcoin is lost, as in the disk drive crashes or is thrown in the trash, the code/coin cannot be recreated. It's gone forever. If it's stolen, similar. There is one high profile example of law enforcement involvement. In the Silk Road case an FBI agent stole illicit Bitcoin, and went to jail. It's actually possible to track the use of Bitcoin, unlike cash. They call it pseudo anonymity.
 
NOTE: if you live in New York State, you cannot own, use, or transfer Bitcoins because of the BitLicense law enacted this year! So ignore this post completely.
I have been using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies since 2009 and would like to share my experiences. I no longer mine coins as it is not profitable. Enough said.

Yes, Bitcoin can have issues just like regular (AKA Fiat) currency. Some person that left $32,000 in cash at a restaurant recently. :facepalm: Just like losing your wallet.

The hard drive guy mentioned above bought his bitcoins when they cost 0.0005 cents per coin. He tossed his drive and was crying about it when a bitcoin was $400. :eyeroll:

The FBI agent was tracked because the FBI had the 'private' keys for the wallet. Without the sending and receiving private keys, they never would have been able to prove their case. You can track money via the public keys or via an IP address. Several of the programmers are working on ways to get around the IP address thing.

Yes I have both lost and made serious amounts of money with bitcoin. I am still on the PLUS side of this equation by a large margin. :smile:

Normally it will cost you 1% of the dollar amount to convert to bitcoin, and 1% to convert back to fiat. There are ways around these costs if you want to convert a significant amount. For example, your rocket budget for the past year. :wink:

So you buy BTC and spend 1%, you pay 0.001-0.001 to send transaction (between 4.5 and 45 cents) to a vendor or store, your vendor accepts the transaction, your vendor pays 1% to convert back to fiat.

As a vendor, compare that to the 3% your credit card charges, your costs for doing business was 1% to convert back to fiat. The buyer paid the transaction fee.

As a buyer, you can make or lose money on the current valuation. I bought a large amount of BTC at $110 and at $200 per coin. They are now worth $435 today. I got the bright idea of selling coins as the price increased and took the profits. Conversely I bought some coins at $450 when China was in the mix and were buying bitcoins like candy, eventually pushing the price well over $600 USD. I lost a huge chunk of money when the Chinese govt banned bitcoins and the price crashed to $200. I held on to the 'damaged' coins and bought more when the price was low and have since recovered my losses. Treat cryptocurrencies like the stock market or a commodity like gold or silver, and you will come out ahead.

For local security issues, by far the best wallet is Bitcoin Armory. There are too many features to go into but the creator of the product is more than a little paranoid about security! The wallet includes a virtual keyboard so keyloggers cannot grab your keystrokes, printable privacy keys in case you delete/destroy/forget your password to your wallet. You can rebuild the wallet as long as you have these keys.

One of the cryptos I am involved with is called DASH.
Several of the benefits of this coin are Darksend (sends all of your transactions as 1.0, 0.1, 0.001, from varying routes through the network destroyed and recreated at each node) This renders your transaction as untraceable. InstantX which has a small extra fee but transmits your coins anywhere within 1 second. Also, you can be a Masternode which pays you 9% a year for transmitting data. DASH's transaction costs are 0.0001 or 2/10 of a cent for sending money.

Additionally, I have been involved with Bitfinex from Hong Kong. They are an exchange/trading house for Bitcoin and Litecoin. I have had a large amount of money there for several years and have been paid 8-10% a year in interest payments. They lend my cash to traders etc. The money is insured by them and has $22-24 Million USD loaned out. I take my profits out every 3 months, just in case. remember the stock market thing?

I have purchased Dell computers, shopped at Overstock.com, and purchased gold/silver, and paid some personal debts with Bitcoin. Along with other stores that accept Bitcoin, this is how you can spend the profits without paying the 1% conversion fee to convert to cash.

Please note there has to be something to Bitcoin and blockchain technology as several major US banks are developing internal databases and products based on it. Specifically, CHASE bank has formed a new department internally to improve transaction security and speed delivery ALA InstantX noted above. If the databases don't agree on a transaction, it is discarded. So you cannot 'go back in time' and add cash to an account. (I have heard that argument more often than I care to think about).

A real life example, my girlfriend called in the middle of the night from the Philippines and her purse had been stolen. She borrowed a girlfriend's phone, downloaded a wallet (3 minutes to install), I sent her coins, she found someone locally that would convert the coins to cash and had pocket money within an hour. Western Union is closed at 2am, and my cost to send was 45 cents.

In closing, love it or hate it, Bitcoin and some of the variants have uses and certainly not nefarious ones like Silk Road. One of the Scandinavian countries went to all virtual currency recently and no longer prints money. :y:
 
At first I thought it was a scam, now I think it is past its prime fad and about to suffer the wrath of its own hype collapsing.
 
I have to admit I was ignorant of this and had prejudged and dismissed it early. Now I think it was a stroke of genius...at least for the inventor. :wink:
And for anyone who got in early, and it's not like you had only a short time to do so. If I recall correctly, it took a while before people seriously got into Bitcoin generation, so there was a decent window of opportunity to create a fortune from thin air (and electrons) just by using the idle time of your PC. I was too stupid to take advantage of it even though I knew of it. :facepalm:
 
And for anyone who got in early, and it's not like you had only a short time to do so. If I recall correctly, it took a while before people seriously got into Bitcoin generation, so there was a decent window of opportunity to create a fortune from thin air (and electrons) just by using the idle time of your PC. I was too stupid to take advantage of it even though I knew of it. :facepalm:

The first time I looked, the only merchant on the entire planet that claimed they would take bitcoin for physical instead of digital goods was a bakery in the Czech Republic. I think it was about five bitcoin for a pastry. So we used 0.2 pastry as a conversion tool to translate through Czech koruna to obtain a dollar figure for bitcoins. I forget what the exact ratio was but needless to say it was not much. The pastries did not look good either. In any case I did not take the currency at all seriously, though I realize it has changed quite a bit since.

I still have a feeling people hoarding bitcoin are going to get hosed sometime in the relatively near future.
 
The first time I looked, the only merchant on the entire planet that claimed they would take bitcoin for physical instead of digital goods was a bakery in the Czech Republic. I think it was about five bitcoin for a pastry. So we used 0.2 pastry as a conversion tool to translate through Czech koruna to obtain a dollar figure for bitcoins. I forget what the exact ratio was but needless to say it was not much. The pastries did not look good either. In any case I did not take the currency at all seriously, though I realize it has changed quite a bit since.

I still have a feeling people hoarding bitcoin are going to get hosed sometime in the relatively near future.
On the second point, that's always possible. See the chart below. However, I would personally never risk BUYING Bitcoins. My facepalm is from not generating them from nothing when I first read of them at a very early point in their history.

Anyway, here's who accepts bitcoins these days;

https://www.bitcoinvalues.net/who-accepts-bitcoins-payment-companies-stores-take-bitcoins.html

Buying Gold & Silver With Bitcoin - this is what I would have done with the large amount of Bitcoins I'd have IF I'd been smart enough to generate them back when it was easy to do so.

https://www.jmbullion.com/investing-guide/buying-physical-metals/bitcoin/

bitcoin-top-currency-of-2015.jpg
 
Currency of any type has no intrinsic value other than the value of the material it is printed on or made from to someone else.

For examples look at the value of a Mark, Drachma, Lira, Escudo, or Pesos. German currency was literally not worth the paper is was printed on in 1923. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Papiermark

Food and water are the ultimate currency since you will not survive for very long without either. Clothing and shelter come next, and the materials used to make them come after the first two. The services of those who provide food or water, clothing or shelter, or the materials used to make these items are next. Before there was monetary currency, people traded these valuable commodities or provided services in order to obtain them.

To facilitate these items and services, man created monetary currency as a means to obtain and/or exchange goods and services. Other than these commodities themselves, first currencies were exotic items such as gold, silver, gems, pearls, shells, salt, incense, jewelry, and other items valued by humans. Since coins are easy to carry, they became accepted currency of the exchange for good and services within local populations. Eventually coins with images of important rulers and/or symbols became the day to day monetary currency for the exchange of good and services within larger states and kingdoms. Coins made from gold or silver were used in all populated areas, so regional and global acceptance of certain gold and silver coins and even other less valuable metal coins came about to facilitate long distance trading, the value being based on the ability to exchange to coins for goods and services outsides their local areas.

At some later time, paper notes, backed by the kingdom, principality, city state, municipality and even individuals, became accepted. Initially the currency was backed by gold and silver reserves in each center of population, but in the 19th and 20th century, newly issued currency was backed by the goods and services a government, corporate or individual entity could provide. When a government wanted raise money, they issued paper bonds, companies issued stock certificates and bonds, and when government, business and individuals had to make larger payments, they issued checks. The acceptance of the monetary instruments backed by governments, businesses and individuals is based on trust, not intrinsic value. When confidence in a government declines, their currency value go down, when confidence in a business declines, their stock and bond values decrease, and when an individual loosed financial credibility, his checks will not be accepted.

The problem with any currency, including bit coins, is generation, acceptance, exchangeability, and ownership. If anyone can create a bit coin, who will accept them, how much value will they assign to it, and how can the holder/owner safeguard its value. This is the crux of the matter, and for me, as I see no value to them, I would not accept them, or hold them. I believe most folks have the same views.

Bob
 
A lot of things have plunged in value, esp. in relation to USD. Gold, silver, crude oil, are all *way* down. Physical silver is a useful commodity if you're a prepper. It can be used as coin, jewelry, in electronics, as well as other, ahem, *special* uses.
 
Currency of any type has no intrinsic value other than the value of the material it is printed on or made from to someone else.
Exactly. And even gold/silver have their issues:

1d033f4027e60133fee0005056a9545d
 
Look at any piece of US paper currency in your wallet. What does it say at the top? FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

"Note" to pay what ? Pay to whom ? Pay when ? No one has any idea of the answers.

All paper currency in the US is illegal as money per sections 8 & 10 of the US Constitution. Don't believe me ? Read it for yourself. Only gold and silver is legal money in the US.

Paper money was originally used as a warehouse receipt for gold stored and accounted for officially. The paper warehouse receipt is not itself money but a convenient paper substitute for money (gold + silver) that is stored. Money substitutes are referred to as 'currency'. The total amount of money substitutes + real money (gold or silver) is called the currency supply. However, the actual money supply is only the total gold + silver stored and accounted for.

Real money vs. illegitimate money (currency) is how the US government swindles people. This is precisely where the lack of understanding by most people occurs.

Originally, the value of paper currency was fixed according to the price of gold. On August 15, 1971, the United States withdrew from the Bretton Woods Accord taking the US off the Gold Exchange Standard. After that, the government was free to print (read: inflate) all the fiat currency they wanted.

Hence, US paper currency is no different than Bitcoin. Except one is physical, one is virtual. Both have the same intrinsic value as Monopoly money. Zero.

cumulative_inflation 1913 to 2013.jpg
 
Hence, US paper currency is no different than Bitcoin. Except one is physical, one is virtual. Both have the same intrinsic value as Monopoly money. Zero.

Since 'value' is relative, I'm willing to take all that worthless currency off your hands...

Seriously, any form of payment is only really a 'promise to pay' in exchange for goods or services. Few of us use checks much any more. That form was really a promise that my bank and your bank would exchange debits and credits. Nothing 'real' ever changed hands. Same thing happens now with debit and credit cards, just faster. Bank wires are even faster - but still just digital debits and credits. Eventually people buy in to the premise that something of supposed value ('fiat currency') can be traded for something else of value. It's not perfect, but it works.
 
Seriously, any form of payment is only really a 'promise to pay' in exchange for goods or services

Except for physical precious metals like gold, silver, platinum. They have intrinsic value and always will.
 
I own bitcoin, but the wallet is on the HD of one of my old machines. (unpowered and in an enclosure so I can get files off of it if needed.) I'm not sure I even remember the encryption key for it. I have less than 1/2 a bitcoin I got as part of a mining pool from early-ish days of BTC mining when you could feasibly generate coins with a desktop machine.

Never spent any, tho.
Same here. have about a third, paid 80 bucks, now looking for keys!
 
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