questions on 29mm motors

Hi,

I am just getting back into this sport/hobby after a couple year hiatus. I am very interested in finally getting my level one. I will be using one of the Estes PSII kits for this cert. I have them all just haven't decided which one to use yet.

More importantly I am looking into propulsion options. I would like a casing that I can use mpr reloads and the occasional high power launch. I have been eyeing they at 29mm 40/120 case but would really like some help from you guys with this.

I want the most versatile 29mm motor I can. That's the goal here. I have read things about this. Done lots of research but help and advice from the experienced is what I need most before pulling the trigger.

Thanks so much. Hope you're all having a nice weekend.

Eric

The CTI Pro29 Starter Set (should be about $50) is a solid place to start. Comes with 3G casing, 2 spacers, closure and delay adjustment tool. With this you can fly F through baby H motors (about 25 different motors total).

I love my 29/40-120 motors. I fly them all the time, but they are not L1 motors. they are also not compatible with the HPR 29/120. If you're going AT I would go with a 29/180 or 240. all great loads that ship without haz charges.

So will this cti starter set be able to do level 1 launches? Where can I find it for that price? Sounds like a great deal!

There are a few H motors in the 3G size. Some of the F and G are considered high power in the U.S.

Only drawback is all CTI motors require hazmat shipping.

Price was from wildman site but I'm sure any CTI vendor would be comparable.

www.pro38.com is CTI website so you can look at all choices and thrust curves before you pull the trigger on the starter.

Why buy a case at all? Just use Aerotech Disposable Motors. The H135 is a 29mm disposable that would be perfect for your L1.
https://www.csrocketry.com/store/rocket-motors/aerotech-rocketry/high-power/dms/h135w-14a.html

Arakid01 said:

So will this cti starter set be able to do level 1 launches? Where can I find it for that price? Sounds like a great deal!

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https://sunward1.com/pro29-hardware-starter-kit.htm


still on sale from Canada , Sunward ships fast btw

I wrote up an overview of AT 29mm motors here - https://www.rocketryspot.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30

I'd recommend a 29/180 case for your situation. most of the loads are L1 The good news? All the loads ship without any hazmat. The CTI cases are a good deal, but every CTI shipment needs to have a hazmat fee of 28 bucks or whatever it is now applied to it. Bummer.

Get a 360, 180 and spacers and fly anything from 120-360 with 2 cases. Or get a 180 and spacers now, and a 360 case later. I think thats the best option. Lets you fly the H128W, H165R, and H238T, G75J as 180, and G77R and G79W as 120's. Rumor is there are more 120 loads coming soon.

Arakid01 said:

So will this cti starter set be able to do level 1 launches? Where can I find it for that price? Sounds like a great deal!

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Yes - there are at least four "baby" H loads for the three-grain case ranging from a relatively long burn H54 White to the teleporting H410 VMAX. I used the H87 Imax in my L1 flight.

When I've mail ordered CTI, I've gotten them from Animal Works. Here's the starter set (I forgot it also includes the delay drilling tool - which is essential for matching the coast time to the rocket and weather): https://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?...ct_id=137&virtuemart_category_id=4&Itemid=470

There is also a vendor here in Washington who carries CTI and I've purchased from him at launches (which obviates the cost of HAZMAT shipping).

I got my Level 1 mainly because I like to fly a couple of over-80-Newtons-average thrust Gs, and so need L1 for them. In particular the 2-grain G88 Smoky Sam and the 2- and 3-grain Blue Streaks.

Eric,

Lots of directions to go here but you have some good solid advice to work with.
Using a single-use motor isn't a bad idea for your initial certification; not having to assemble a reload (especially an Aerotech) is one less thing to worry about.
If you would regularly launch with a club see if there is a vendor that attends your club's launches. You could avoid hazmat charges and gets lots of info/support as you move into and through the L1 motors.

michigander said:

https://sunward1.com/pro29-hardware-starter-kit.htm


still on sale from Canada , Sunward ships fast btw

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Sale and no tax for U.S. customers (saves another 8 - 9%). If you decide to go the CTI route, this is a good sale.

KennB said:

Eric,

Lots of directions to go here but you have some good solid advice to work with.
Using a single-use motor isn't a bad idea for your initial certification; not having to assemble a reload (especially an Aerotech) is one less thing to worry about.
If you would regularly launch with a club see if there is a vendor that attends your club's launches. You could avoid hazmat charges and gets lots of info/support as you move into and through the L1 motors.

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+1 on this advice. Also, what type of field will you be flying HPR on and what is the waiver. Any of the Estes PS II models will get a lot of altitude on even a "baby" H. As long as you can fly the field with those motors at those altitudes, have fun!

If you intend to start flying the full range of L1 motors, then I would suggest you build a 38mm MMT rocket and cert with that. Then you can get above the "baby" H range and into I motors. The heavier L1 rocket won't get as much altitude on the small H motors which gives you options on those windy day. The I motors can still push the altitude on those perfect flying days.

Either way, have fun and fly the field.

If you have all of the Estes PSII kits, then I'd suggest you build the Mega Der Red Max. That will put in a great L1 flight without going ridiculously high. I'd also second the recommendation to use an Aerotech DMS motor, which is single-use. That simplifies your L1 launch, and it also means your expensive hardware is not at risk if something goes wrong.

The other PSII kits fly great on F motors to around 1,000 feet or less. Good on G motors to almost twice as high. H motors really will put them up very high, so you run some risk of losing them. People do get L1 cents with these rockets, so it is certainly doable, but it will definitely be a high flight.

Handeman said:

If you intend to start flying the full range of L1 motors, then I would suggest you build a 38mm MMT rocket and cert with that...

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Excellent advice, here. I'd say go 38mm at minimum, if not 54, so you can use 'em all.


Later!

--Coop

Coop said:

Excellent advice, here. I'd say go 38mm at minimum, if not 54, so you can use 'em all.


Later!

--Coop

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guys.... he's already said he has all the PSII kits, and intends to use those. Do we have to hammer the 38mm drum here? *shakes head* He set a perimeter. Respect that.

L1 on a PSII kit? CTI starter set, and an H133BS, or Aerotech 29/180 H128W.


This isn't hard advice to give, nor an opening to browbeat him and tell him he's not building big enough. Every cert rocket does not need to be able to fly the full range of motors. You can, in fact, build more after you cert.... if you so desire. Considering he's said he intends to fly his cert, but mostly fly G's, Telling him his idea isn't good enough is useless.

You simply cannot lose with a 29/40-120 case. It is the classic, powering all my 29mm rockets from Estes PS2 to squat LOC rockets, with all the Aerotech kits in between.

Once you get used to building the motors, the H128 is an L1 gift with a bow on top. It will need different hardware, but by then you will be ready for it.

I understand why people say go 38mm or even 54mm but my simple truth is if you only intend to stay with H's and I's, 29mm are much cheaper to fly. I personally LOVE 29mm motors and fly them 4-5 to 1 over larger motors. Mostly because I really enjoy flying smaller rockets. A 29mm H in a small rocket like a LOC Onyx gives you crazy performance for around $20.

This is my current Onyx and a 29/240 case. An H180 in an Onyx is more fun than can be expressed providing you have the field and a solid recovery plan. Don't get fooled into thinking bigger is always better.

watermelonman said:

You simply cannot lose with a 29/40-120 case. It is the classic, powering all my 29mm rockets from Estes PS2 to squat LOC rockets, with all the Aerotech kits in between.

Once you get used to building the motors, the H128 is an L1 gift with a bow on top. It will need different hardware, but by then you will be ready for it.

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+1 to this. As long as you have good access to AT hobby line reloads, this will serve you for lots of flights on your PS II rockets. Nope, it won't be the reload case for your L1 flight, but you'll have plenty of fun, and there are lots of options for that when you're ready.

Mark

alex_car763 said:

The CTI Pro29 Starter Set (should be about $50) is a solid place to start. Comes with 3G casing, 2 spacers, closure and delay adjustment tool. With this you can fly F through baby H motors (about 25 different motors total).

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+1!
But I also LOVE my 29/40-120 case. It flies often. With $10 reloads, you can't beat it...

KennB said:

Eric,


If you would regularly launch with a club see if there is a vendor that attends your club's launches. You could avoid hazmat charges and gets lots of info/support as you move into and through the L1 motors.

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I think this is a very important consideration. Where do you launch and is there a vendor that provides motors at a club launch? If so, consider what they carry. If they only do CTI, then consider the CTI HW. If they only do AT, then consider AT. If they do both - flip a coin...

I mostly do CTI and some single use AT. I like the simplicity of CTI. Others prefer and get satisfaction out of assembling an AT reload.

DizWolf said:

guys.... he's already said he has all the PSII kits, and intends to use those. Do we have to hammer the 38mm drum here? *shakes head* He set a perimeter. Respect that.

L1 on a PSII kit? CTI starter set, and an H133BS, or Aerotech 29/180 H128W.


This isn't hard advice to give, nor an opening to browbeat him and tell him he's not building big enough. Every cert rocket does not need to be able to fly the full range of motors. You can, in fact, build more after you cert.... if you so desire. Considering he's said he intends to fly his cert, but mostly fly G's, Telling him his idea isn't good enough is useless.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that David.

My Leviathan went to 2338 feet on a CTI H87 according to the PerfactFlite Pnut aboard that flight. Certainly higher than the Mega DRM would go on the same power. Of course one part of certifying (or just responsible flying) is "flying the field". I waited for a nice calm evening to do this flight as the field, on a breezy day, was not a good one for flying to over 2300 feet.

I'm with Les - CTI reloads and AT single use motors....but I value the time flying more than the satisfaction of building motors.....at least right now.

But with all the discussion about the AT 29/40-120 case maybe I should give AT reloads another try.....

BEC said:

But with all the discussion about the AT 29/40-120 case maybe I should give AT reloads another try.....

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You can find the case for $40, and with loads going for 7-12 bucks.... It's hard to lose. I've got a few cases so I can build them the night before and not have to deal with it at the launch.

DizWolf said:

guys.... he's already said he has all the PSII kits, and intends to use those. Do we have to hammer the 38mm drum here? *shakes head* He set a perimeter. Respect that.

L1 on a PSII kit? CTI starter set, and an H133BS, or Aerotech 29/180 H128W.


This isn't hard advice to give, nor an opening to browbeat him and tell him he's not building big enough. Every cert rocket does not need to be able to fly the full range of motors. You can, in fact, build more after you cert.... if you so desire. Considering he's said he intends to fly his cert, but mostly fly G's, Telling him his idea isn't good enough is useless.

Click to expand...

I did not mean to say the OP's idea wasn't good enough, and I'm not browbeating anyone.

A 3 grain CTI case, and a baby H will certainly get it done, provided the weight, waiver, and recovery field all line up. However, by the time I posted, this has already been said--or their SU/AT equivalents mentioned-- several times over.



Later!

--Coop