Jason's Motor Porn Thread

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Loving this thread, thanks Jason and contributors. The nostalgia is awesome. I often think that my continued interest in rocketry stems from the satisfaction gained by building rockets you always wanted to, or couldn't yet, build as a kid...and in the motors you wanted to fly but couldn't get or afford as a teenager.

Derek

Missing the analog days of rocketry.
 
Man, I am loving this old media and the history behind it. Keep it coming!

Especially stories from Initiator001.
 
DeeRoc29 said:
Loving this thread, thanks Jason and contributors. The nostalgia is awesome. I often think that my continued interest in rocketry stems from the satisfaction gained by building rockets you always wanted to, or couldn't yet, build as a kid...and in the motors you wanted to fly but couldn't get or afford as a teenager.

Derek

Missing the analog days of rocketry.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm in the same boat.
 
DeeRoc29 said:
Loving this thread, thanks Jason and contributors. The nostalgia is awesome. I often think that my continued interest in rocketry stems from the satisfaction gained by building rockets you always wanted to, or couldn't yet, build as a kid...and in the motors you wanted to fly but couldn't get or afford as a teenager.

Derek

Missing the analog days of rocketry.
Click to expand...

You are welcome Derek. I feel the same way about the nostalgia end of it. I was first exposed to the world of Tripoli and HPR via a Tripolitan mag circa 1987 or 1988 when I was 12 years old. Needless to say I didn't have the ability at that time to fly big stuff, but I did manage to get an NCR Phantom 4000 and some AT motors to go with. Still, I feel urge to revisit that old stuff that I missed out on...
 
Alright guys, I didn't get a chance to take pics of any of the TRM stuff, but I did snap some of this 24mm SU E50. This is a full E class Blue Thunder core burner with a graphite nozzle. It always amazes me to see the graphite nozzles on these old SU motors...even down into 18mm.

E501.jpgE502.jpgE503.jpg
 
Doesn't AT refer to that propellant as "classic"? Great stuff, keep it coming!
 
marcusSRG said:
Doesn't AT refer to that propellant as "classic"? Great stuff, keep it coming!
Click to expand...

Don't think so. In the pre White Lightning and Blue Thunder era almost all motors used the same old standard AeroTech propellant, which was at the the time nameless I believe (at least as it was labelled to customers). Referring to it as classic has come after the fact, much the same as how no one called the '57 Chevy a classic when it came out.

One other small wrinkle - in the mid nineties AeroTech did a run of 29mm F and G SU motors with the old propellant and label them "classic". I have always wondered if those were just made up of leftover sticks of propellant that had been languishing since the earlier era. That could be part of where the "classic" name comes from...but I think it is only part of the story.

Semantics are one of my other fields of interest.:cool:
 
OK, time for some Kosdon stuff. In 93-94 Frank became steady fixture at Black Rock launches, and sold me and my brother Nathan a 29-150 case and a few loads. He would also bring new experimental loads and have us fly them in this case. Frank did not have a test stand at this time (maybe he never did) and he would have us fly various propellants in the same rocket and use the altitude reported to gauge motor output. This is not the most exact way, but it was expedient. Frank liked expedient very much.

Here is the hardware - the plugged bulkhead and larger throat nozzle are original to the case. This is the standard size nozzle used with regular BATES grain loads in the Slow, Fast, and Dirty Harry propellants. We had esp requested the plugged bulkhead because we knew we wanted to do EX loads in it and that would simplify things a bit. The nozzle with the smaller throat and the normal fwd bulkhead (read - with delay column) I came across much later from DeeRoc...this nozzle is for use with the C-slow load. Also shown are C-rings and thrust washer as well as o-rings. This pic does not show the aluminum rings that go with the delay column assembly, but they are shown in some of the subsequent pics of reloads.

KBF29150HDW.jpg
 
Here are some loads for the Kosdon TRM 29-150 casing shown above. The one on the left is a G65 Dirty Harry and the one on the left is a G40 C-Slow Slow. These are in the "deluxe baggie packaging" and the one even has instructions, which leads ,e to believe that it is a very early example.

The Slow, Fast, and Dirty Harry reloads all look the same other than slight variances in the appearance of the propellant. Note the voids...very common in these loads. Also common was to have grains of unequal length....you might get two shorties and a long one, or some that had ends that were not cut straight.

KBF29150BaggedLoads.jpgKBFInst1.jpg29150Inst2.jpgKBF29150Curves.jpg
 
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Jason...I estimate the issue of HPR was around 1983(Edit: 1993)
..The Magnum ad had a very young Ross Dunton standing next a NCR ASP 4" that was a special run........also mentioned were a "Special Run" of Aerotech G-80's that were described as the original formula with a Pinkish white flame and very little smoke..sound like the same?
 
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And the contents of the bags...not that the G65 delay has been drilled. Frank would do this as well as his packaging on site. Delay accuracy was sub-optimal :).

29150G65DHLoad.jpg29150G40CSlot1.jpg29150G40CSlot2.jpg
 
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JStitz said:
Jason...I estimate the issue of HPR was around 1983..The Magnum ad had a very young Ross Dunton standing next a NCR ASP 4" that was a special run...also mentioned were a "Special Run" of Aerotech G-80's that were described as the original formula with a Pinkish white flame and very little smoke..sound like the same?
Click to expand...

Maybe 1993? In any case, I did get a couple of the F25 "classics" from Ross, and they had very little flame or smoke. They looked just like pics of AT motors in the old Tripoli mags....

As mentioned, at some point I am going to action pics and maybe video of some of these long OOP motors for all to see what HPR motors looked like back in 1988.
 
J Blatz said:
Don't think so....Referring to it as classic has come after the fact, much the same as how no one called the '57 Chevy a classic when it came out....One other small wrinkle - in the mid nineties AeroTech did a run of 29mm F and G SU motors with the old propellant and label them "classic"--Semantics are one of my other fields of interest.:cool:
Click to expand...

AHH, very interesting stuff. AND now I remember where I got Classic from -- old NAR certified motor listings in old Sport Rocketry issues from the early 2000s. They had AT motors listed as "Classic" propellant in there and they all had other common certified motor designations...stuff like G80 and F50 IIRC. I always thought they were just old motor listings, but I bet it was the motor run you were referring to.

I've also read about a motor in the 80s that AT did that had blue flame and sparks, like a blue skid almost. Called FX Jet or something like that. Read it in an issue of HPR mag. It was early days and uncertified IIRC...Need to dig that out.

Loving the Kosdon by the way...say, how DID he slot those grains??
 
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J Blatz said:
Don't think so. In the pre White Lightning and Blue Thunder era almost all motors used the same old standard AeroTech propellant, which was at the the time nameless I believe (at least as it was labelled to customers). Referring to it as classic has come after the fact, much the same as how no one called the '57 Chevy a classic when it came out.

One other small wrinkle - in the mid nineties AeroTech did a run of 29mm F and G SU motors with the old propellant and label them "classic". I have always wondered if those were just made up of leftover sticks of propellant that had been languishing since the earlier era. That could be part of where the "classic" name comes from...but I think it is only part of the story.

Semantics are one of my other fields of interest.:cool:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know that Gary referred to 80's era propellant as "Classic" on a few occasions. How and when he arrived at that name, well it didn't occur to me ask.

I've never seen it other than I'm under the impression that it's difficult to see especially in smaller motors, similar to blue thunder. Come to think of it, maybe I have seen it. Wasn't the crazy ~M200 ish flown in sustainer mode by John Coker at BALLS 2012 use that propellant?
 
Here are 2 oldies but goodies from my collection. AT 98mm single use motors, L430-15 & M675-18 White Lightning..SR

20141226_154052_resized.jpg20141226_154111_resized.jpg20141226_154227_resized.jpg20141226_154248_resized.jpg20141226_154305_resized.jpg
 
tfish said:
Some of the stuff I got from Woody.

Tony
Click to expand...

We should start a seperate thread on the I-800..LOL. I cant remember the NS but wasnt it around 360+?..I remember Greg Muri firing one off and it sounded like a shotgun echo off the trees at Orangeburg..Greg said there was no delay just an epoxy plug? was it even one sec burn?
 
Larock69...We gotta know the story behind the offset..and those motors.....
 
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Anyone happen to know what the nozzle throat diameter is for the 38/640 I 130 moon burner is?

I have one I'd like to fly.

from what I hear it's not the stock nozzle for that case. It may be the nozzle for the 38/510 case.

Tony
 
pyrobob said:
I've never seen it other than I'm under the impression that it's difficult to see especially in smaller motors, similar to blue thunder. Come to think of it, maybe I have seen it. Wasn't the crazy ~M200 ish flown in sustainer mode by John Coker at BALLS 2012 use that propellant?
Click to expand...

Wasn't that one of the Pegasus wing motors? Think I heard it end burning Warp 9. Here's the page:

https://www.jcrocket.com/nike-asp.shtml
 
J Blatz said:
OK, time for some Kosdon stuff. In 93-94 Frank became steady fixture at Black Rock launches, and sold me and my brother Nathan a 29-150 case and a few loads. He would also bring new experimental loads and have us fly them in this case. Frank did not have a test stand at this time (maybe he never did) and he would have us fly various propellants in the same rocket and use the altitude reported to gauge motor output. This is not the most exact way, but it was expedient. Frank liked expedient very much.

View attachment 277264
Click to expand...

Did you ever get to try one of Frank's Sodium Chlorate motors? Frank had a thing about Sodium Chlorate... I think this was the oxidizer he used when he first started making rocket motors as a kid. He held launches at Lucerne and would have me try these motors in a VB Extreme I had equiped with a G-Wiz MC.
Those were fun times. Jerry would even show up and he and Frank ended up burying the hatchet. Somebody has pictures, I can't remember who.

Thanks for the pictures of the old AT motors... It brought back a lot of memories. I think the original AT propellant was AP and polyurethane, like the old Enerjet and SSRS motors. At least they smelled the same while burning. The flame and low smoke was also similar to the other 2 mentioned.
Maybe Bob can chime in.... IIRC, AT used code numbers for these old propellants, like AT-8221; I think that was one of the designation numbers.
 
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