Hate Estes igniters what can I do

ksaves2 said:

Only problem Chuck is I thought it was a no-no to post recipes in the open forum? All's it takes is a little search and igniter "kits" can be purchased online or one can find out what it takes and DIY. Only suggestion I will make is making
igniters is fine and easy. Don't bother with ematches. I learned, got 'em to near 100% reliability and it's too much of a PITA to do. I rolled my own chips as the commercial ones weren't reliable. Not worth the effort and don't
bother with ematch kits. It's one thing for a failure to light off a pyrotechnic firework, it's another to have a deployment failure. Too many commercial opportunities now for ematches. Kurt

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I do not intent to post it here. I will post the results. You can email me for a link when I decide to release it.

cwbullet said:

I do not intent to post it here. I will post the results. You can email me for a link when I decide to release it.

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I am definitely interested in the the results.

Enhance your Estes Starters, they will be many times better and much more dependable.

See: https://www.quickburst.net/new_hot_shot_page.htm

Works like a charm.

QuickBurst

I still have some of the Quickburst H3 dip here bought years ago and dipped my Estes igniters in them, works fantastic also. It turns the new crap Estes igniters into super igniters and goes along ways.

Yes the H3 will work just as well. The advantage is the Hot Shot Conductive mix is being able to make starters with no bridge wire. This is something the H3 can not do.

While on the subject of crappy ignitors, the Estes Sonic Ignitor that they sell for use with the Estes branded composite engines are hit or miss. Mostly miss. I recently bought some Estes branded composite engines and Sonic ignitors. I also purchased some First Fire Jr. ignitors for when the Sonic ignitors fail. Why doesn't Estes include quality ignitors with their composite engines? I have had Aerotech composite ignitors with very little pyrogen on them. In all fairness, I took a photo of those ignitors, sent them to Aerotech and they sent me a pack of First Fire Jrs.

2 yr old thread necromancy

deangelo54 said:

While on the subject of crappy ignitors, the Estes Sonic Ignitor that they sell for use with the Estes branded composite engines are hit or miss. Mostly miss. I recently bought some Estes branded composite engines and Sonic ignitors. I also purchased some First Fire Jr. ignitors for when the Sonic ignitors fail. Why doesn't Estes include quality ignitors with their composite engines? I have had Aerotech composite ignitors with very little pyrogen on them. In all fairness, I took a photo of those ignitors, sent them to Aerotech and they sent me a pack of First Fire Jrs.

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Estes hasn't produced those rebranded aerotech composites in awhile, you may have just bought aging products. I always had good success with the sonic igniters

deangelo54 said:

While on the subject of crappy ignitors, the Estes Sonic Ignitor that they sell for use with the Estes branded composite engines are hit or miss. Mostly miss. I recently bought some Estes branded composite engines and Sonic ignitors. I also purchased some First Fire Jr. ignitors for when the Sonic ignitors fail. Why doesn't Estes include quality ignitors with their composite engines? I have had Aerotech composite
ignitors with very little pyrogen on them. In all fairness, I took a photo of those ignitors, sent them to Aerotech and they sent me a pack of First Fire Jrs.

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Estes doesn't "make" composite motors anymore (They were re branded Aerotech motors with Estes's own igniter). I agree the sonic igniters are not any good. but at least they come with 1/8 launch lug material. Although they do work better on the BP motors than the regular estes igniters.

That explains why those Estes branded engines are in abundance during these times of Aerotech single use composite engine shortages. A few years ago the Sonic igniters worked well but then I had a lot of failures. So far this year I am one for two.

quickburst said:

Enhance your Estes Starters, they will be many times better and much more dependable.

See: https://www.quickburst.net/new_hot_shot_page.htm

Works like a charm.

QuickBurst

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I had an opportunity to do a product review of the Hot Shot Conductive Mix. As part of my testing I took video of an Estes Solar Igniter and a Solar Igniter dipped in Hot Shot. I grabbed individual frames from the videos. First picture is the solar Igniter. It basically glows. Second picture is a Solar Igniter dipped in Hot Shot.



If you dip 24 AWG or 26 AWG wire in Hot Shot you get something like the picture below. I know 26 AWG will fit in a C6-3 and D12 as I have used 26 AWG on both motors.

I found a strip of igniters left over from 1980 that all still worked when i used them about 10 years ago, I was beyond amazed. They weren't stored in any special way. I am not sure of the make they were. I used Estes and another type which i forgot the brand name of, i'm pretty sure they were the other type. They were slightly different than the Estes ones at the starter end. IIRC, the starter tip came to a sharp point, where the Estes ones have a more round, u shaped end and used a lot less of the "pyrogen" that the Estes ones did.

I've had 3 or 4 regular Estes igniter failures in over 100 launches. I don't consider that bad at all.

Vigilante_A-20_DEMON said:

I found a strip of igniters left over from 1980 that all still worked when i used them about 10 years ago, I was beyond amazed. They weren't stored in any special way. I am not sure of the make they were. I used Estes and another type which i forgot the brand name of, i'm pretty sure they were the other type. They were slightly different than the Estes ones at the starter end. IIRC, the starter tip came to a sharp point, where the Estes ones have a more round, u shaped end and used a lot less of the "pyrogen" that the Estes ones did.

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MRC igniters or the Q2 igniter sold by Quest (NOT the Q2G2). It looks similar to the Estes Solar igniter, but it has a glass bead to help prevent the thicker lead wires from shorting.

Quest still sells them without the pyrogen on the tip for use in MicroMaxx motors. You can buy them and dip them.

sl98 said:

I had an opportunity to do a product review of the Hot Shot Conductive Mix. As part of my testing I took video of an Estes Solar Igniter and a Solar Igniter dipped in Hot Shot. I grabbed individual frames from the videos. First picture is the solar Igniter. It basically glows. Second picture is a Solar Igniter dipped in Hot Shot.

If you dip 24 AWG or 26 AWG wire in Hot Shot you get something like the picture below. I know 26 AWG will fit in a C6-3 and D12 as I have used 26 AWG on both motors.

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You can't argue with pictures!

Bat-mite said:

You can't argue with pictures!

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Yes you can.

Being in the ignition industry for pyrotechnics since 2002, we finally started filling a need for model rocketry, and replacing the estes starters was our first step. We have been very successful for more than a year now. Check out our rocketry products here: electricmatch.com/rocketry

electricmatch said:

Being in the ignition industry for pyrotechnics since 2002, we finally started filling a need for model rocketry, and replacing the estes starters was our first step. We have been very successful for more than a year now. Check out our rocketry products here: electricmatch.com/rocketry

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Which of those would be best for BP clusters?

shreadvector said:

MRC igniters or the Q2 igniter sold by Quest (NOT the Q2G2). It looks similar to the Estes Solar igniter, but it has a glass bead to help prevent the thicker lead wires from shorting.

Quest still sells them without the pyrogen on the tip for use in MicroMaxx motors. You can buy them and dip them.

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Oh, thanks for the info!

electricmatch said:

Being in the ignition industry for pyrotechnics since 2002, we finally started filling a need for model rocketry, and replacing the estes starters was our first step. We have been very successful for more than a year now. Check out our rocketry products here: electricmatch.com/rocketry

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I've been a long time customer of Jtek matches and per conversations they use a conductive primer (no bridgewire). Resistance varies so *do not use for clusters*. They are reliable for single motor flights. IMO, the web site should have a warning.

neil_w said:

Which of those would be best for BP clusters?

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Depending on if you are doing series or parallel. The bp starters are parallel only, if you need to do series because of the lower voltage or amperage, we have the firewire. they will light bp motors, as that is what CTI uses on all of their products. However, they are larger in size, so you have to make sure they fit in the throat of the motor.

Rocketjunkie said:

I've been a long time customer of Jtek matches and per conversations they use a conductive primer (no bridgewire). Resistance varies so *do not use for clusters*. They are reliable for single motor flights. IMO, the web site should have a warning.

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thanks for the info, I have added a note to our site. Just curious, could you do a parallel setup for the clusters?

electricmatch said:

thanks for the info, I have added a note to our site. Just curious, could you do a parallel setup for the clusters?

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I always do clusters in parallel. With varying resistance, the lower resistance igniters will fire first, then the higher resistance ones. This might happen fast enough to light all the motors, but I wouldn't trust it.

Igniter dip is the way to go but the apogee stuff is way too expensive, use this from FireFox FX:
https://www.firefox-fx.com/ignition.htm This is basically a proprietary formula but is essentially liquid thermite. It makes enough to coat hundreds of igniters. A second problem with the white Estes solars is that too much power just snaps the bridge wire before it gets hot enough to light the black powder in the motor. I have use Estes igniters dipped in the firefox stuff to light G-Motors, just add 8" thin wire leads to the solars...as an emergency, ran out of regular igniters for bigger motors...ooooops

ELECTRIC IGNITER PYROGEN - PYROMAG™ MAGNUM SECONDARY PYROGEN

Our Pyromag magnum™ pyrogen has a higher combustion temp and burns longer (typically 2 to 3 seconds) than other pyrogens and because of the molten product and superheated sparks, it is capable of igniting the most difficult of applications. It should be used as an overcoal with a primer such as ELV or Liquid Element for reliable ignition. This professional secondary pyrogen is used extensively by special effects and rocket enthusiasts for positive ignition!

SECPMAG - 1/2oz BOTTLE - FS Non-hazmat shipping- No ATFE required to order.
$16.95/bottle (3oz/bottle) Compare ours to kits available elsewhere!

beeblebrox said:

Igniter dip is the way to go but the apogee stuff is way too expensive, use this from FireFox FX:
https://www.firefox-fx.com/ignition.htm This is basically a proprietary formula but is essentially liquid thermite. It makes enough to coat hundreds of igniters. A second problem with the white Estes solars is that too much power just snaps the bridge wire before it gets hot enough to light the black powder in the motor. I have use Estes igniters dipped in the firefox stuff to light G-Motors, just add 8" thin wire leads to the solars...as an emergency, ran out of regular igniters for bigger motors...ooooops

ELECTRIC IGNITER PYROGEN - PYROMAG[emoji769] MAGNUM SECONDARY PYROGEN

Our Pyromag magnum[emoji769] pyrogen has a higher combustion temp and burns longer (typically 2 to 3 seconds) than other pyrogens and because of the molten product and superheated sparks, it is capable of igniting the most difficult of applications. It should be used as an overcoal with a primer such as ELV or Liquid Element for reliable ignition. This professional secondary pyrogen is used extensively by special effects and rocket enthusiasts for positive ignition!

SECPMAG - 1/2oz BOTTLE - FS Non-hazmat shipping- No ATFE required to order.
$16.95/bottle (3oz/bottle) Compare ours to kits available elsewhere!

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Please contact Firefox before ordering as they have been failing to fulfill paid orders ( taking your money and not sending product) just a heads up.

I don't know why people need all these dips when a little FabriTac and BP does the trick. It's clear that the dips work, but may be overkill.

Rocketjunkie said:

I always do clusters in parallel. With varying resistance, the lower resistance igniters will fire first, then the higher resistance ones. This might happen fast enough to light all the motors, but I wouldn't trust it.

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check out the video we added to the bottom of the page. 3 were fired in parallel using a car battery. we are going to experiment to find out the maximum we can get. https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/29/6/red-hot

I have both the old style (igniter) and the new style (starters). The starters are clearly not the same having lost the 'punch'. I read somewhere that the new formula doesn't come under the DOT regulations so is easier to ship. If true, it's a legit reason for them to change the formula. In an case... At my last school launch we fired off about 40 starters with only 1 being a misfire. That ratio is pretty good to me particularly compared to a launch we did two years ago where we had over 50 launches and about 33% misfires! That was frustrating! So what made the difference? I abandoned 6vdc and 9vdc launch controllers. The one(s) I use now are exclusively 12vdc. Mine have internal 12vdc and are ready for external input as well. You can find them at magmamountain.com - yes, that's me. In any case, my experience is that if you simply go to a 12vdc launch controller, you'll find a dramatic reduction in your misfires. At our school launches over the last two years we've flown well over 300 rockets and I'll not be going back to 6vdc.

Are we talking about Estes Solar igniters, or the Sonics?

Honestly, I have no idea why anyone would need to "enhance" the Solar igniters. I have a box full of extras just from the ones that come as extras in the motor packs.

If you're having failures, you're either using super cheap AA batteries in your controller, or you're not installing them in the motor correctly.

If we're talking Sonics, can't help you there, lol.

Tyler P said:

Honestly, I have no idea why anyone would need to "enhance" the Solar igniters.

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I have had almost 100% success rate with the Solar starters on a 12V system.

However, it is my impression that they are still not ideal for starting clusters. That to me would be the one instance where enhancing them would pay off (unless I'm wrong about the Solars not working well for clusters.)

neil_w said:

I have had almost 100% success rate with the Solar starters on a 12V system.

However, it is my impression that they are still not ideal for starting clusters. That to me would be the one instance where enhancing them would pay off (unless I'm wrong about the Solars not working well for clusters.)

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I've never had issues either. I've never launched a cluster, though. Maybe that's the issue.