New level 1 flyer, next steps?

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spowers42

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Yesterday I got my level 1 cert using a kit (rocketry warehouse formula 54) with a very simple setup. I used motor based ejection and no electronics. I am looking for suggestions for a winter project for my next high power build. I am wondering if anyone has suggestions on different ways to go. I have the ability to make my own carbon fiber body tubes, and laminated composite (carbon, or fiberglass) fins, so I would like to do something with that. The other option I am thinking of is finding a good composite kit to start learning dual deployment. I am also really curious about the "mechanically modular" builds mentioned in this years NAR member guide. But I haven't found any kits like that, so I am guessing that would be a pure scratch built thing? Ideas, suggestions, and recommendations would be great.
 
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Welcome!!! :)

Wildman Punisher! :grin:


  • Wildman is likely to have one or more as a BF special.
  • DD with aluminum bulk plates
  • It's a tough mudder
  • Can go mach & mile+
  • Can do L2
  • CJ has a build thread on it, so you can follow that.
  • The name is too cool!

The only catch is you need your own chutes, cords, etc.; however if you've built a Formula 54, you're not new to this.

Would be way too cool to see a CF Punisher. I'm sure it would make a lot of us drool! :drool:

Best luck and enjoy!
 
Punisher is a great choice for learning electronic deployment/ dual deploy. And it'll work great for an L2 rocket if you feel like spending even more money :)
 
HED can be confining. I'd get something with a full recovery payload and enjoy the space. Sky is the limit with what you can do now.

Depends what size motors you want to fly.
if
29mm - get a 38mm body with a 29 mount
38mm- get a 54mm or 2.6" body with a 38mm mount
54mm- get a 2.6" or 3" rocket with a 54mm mount.

put a tracker in the nose, and a simple avbay in the middle. Fly the snot out of it for a year and then decide what you'd like to build yourself after that.
 
I'd recommend focusing on getting comfortable with electronic/dual deployment. Furthermore I'd recommend building something pretty standard. Get to know how it all works the way it's usually done, and fly a whole bunch of flights like that.

By "standard" and "normal" I'm talking about a mid-airframe AV bay, with a single altimeter on a sled, in perhaps a regular-old 3FNC rocket. Don't go for anything exotic, or try to come up with something new & unusual - go for the proven methods and get the basics down. (Learn the rules first, and then start to break them!).

Build a workhorse rocket that can take some abuse, and fly it a lot. Stick with 38mm (maybe even 29mm) motors, and keep your flights low enough that you don't need to get into tracking (yet!) - perhaps 1500-3000' or so. Think in terms of LOTS of flights, rather than fewer flights that are more expensive per (bigger motors, tracking, exotic & unusual materials and features, etc.).

What kit? - there are tons out there that will do just fine. Heck, you could get an AV bay and a section of payload tube and convert that Formula54 into just the thing. Loads of great deals will be had this coming week with all the "black" sales - Rocketry Warehouse, Madcow, Wildman, etc. all make something that would be great. Scratch-built is definitely an option too.

I'd highly recommend the Missileworks RRC2+ for the altimeter - it's super capable, great to learn and grow with, easy to configure and use, and it's very affordable - even more so with, again, the upcoming "black" sales.

So, think in terms of a basic, workhorse, DUAL/ELECTRONIC DEPLOY rocket that you can fly a whole bunch. Fly it, tweak it along the way, and get comfortable. THEN start dreaming about something special.

Most of all, have fun with that L1 cert - there's a whole lot of great flying to be had at that level.

s6
 
I'd suggest maybe building a couple short stout rockets, and a tall skinny rocket or two.
Make a few low and slow flights. And, some launches that push the envelope (on a nice calm day that is) for altitude and speed.
See what interests you by way of experience.

I've found, for myself, that I really enjoy watching the process of the flight. So for me, at least for the past few years, low and slow has been the most enjoyable.
That being said. I just picked up a Madcow - Screech: https://www.madcowrocketry.com/2-6-thin-wall-fiberglass-dual-deploy-screech/ during their Pre Black Friday Sale; After hearing a lot of wonderful things about it's mach number capabilities. Ask me again next year and I may tell you I'm hooked earsplitting, out of sight flights.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, enjoy your new High Power status. There's a great deal of fun to be had with the new tools you have at your disposal.
And, congratulations on joining the ranks!
 
I like seeing the whole flight too. Thats why I put a camera on it, cuz they're going in 60 milliseconds lately :)
 
The punisher might fit the bill for me. I like that I can take it to supersonic, and do an L2 on it, but still fly 38mm motors with an adapter. While I am currently running 29, moving up to 38 will open up a lot of stuff for me. The workhorse rocket seems like a good idea. Between that, the formula 54, and a mid power I have that can probably fly on some weaker H motors I can fly a ton next season.
For electronics, if I wanted to throw a simple altimeter in the formula 54 could I just hang one off the eye bolt on the nose cone, or do I need to add an av bay (just recording, not DD)?
 
I'll reiterate.... something like a full size 3" wildman ($285) 3" G3 from rocketry warehouse (200), or any of the DD Madcow 2.6" kits (170, 130 on sale on BF) (https://www.madcowrocketry.com/thin-wall-fiberglass-26/)
Is going to be a LOT easier to work with and fly than the punisher and having to deal with the cramped space of HED.


As for electronics for simple logging, the Jolly logic stuff you can just hang off. (I've smashed two this way). Best bet even with those is to build a simple av-bay.

If you want something Light and Strong.... there's also the MAC kits - https://shop.macperformancerocketry.com/collections/3-diameter-rocket-kits
 
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The Punisher is a hoot. However speaking as someone who built it as their first true dual deploy rocket, DizWolf definitely makes a good point. It can be a little confining and confusing. I would highly recommend its split fin or traditional brothers, the Dark Star and traditional Wildman.

A wise man once told me that one could never have too many 54mm rockets, and that has proven true again and again at each launch I attend.
 
I agree about traditional dual deployment. I would get something like a Wildman Junior- 54mm airframe with 38mm mount. L2 capable easily, tough as they come, and excellent for learning dual deploy.

Then I would fly a bunch of L1 dual deploys with I motors. Then do your L2 so you have the bugs worked out.

One other thing, been flying dual deploys for 15 years or so. In last year I have gone to using drogue chutes at apogee after a couple snagged up flights. Cleaned that all up.
 
What about using one of the "minis" with DD like the mini screech, or mini dark star running 29 while working up to the punisher? I know 29 is more limited in motor selection, but I already have the hardware for that from flying the formula 54. It seems like one of the things is just getting something built and getting as many flights in as possible next year to work on consistency.
 
That is a reasonable plan as well. I did personally find that doing my first AV bay in 54 mm a little easier than a 38mm.

I recommended the Wildman Junior. I have that and a Formula 54- I do take the upper airframe/AV bay from the Wildman and fly it on the Formula.
 
Keep your eyes on black Saturday sales... New Wildman kits are always amazing, and there's always at least one L2 kit at unbeatable prices...
 
That is a reasonable plan as well. I did personally find that doing my first AV bay in 54 mm a little easier than a 38mm.

I recommended the Wildman Junior. I have that and a Formula 54- I do take the upper airframe/AV bay from the Wildman and fly it on the Formula.

When you fly the Formula with the upper airframe do you do anything special to affix the nose cone so it doesn't slide off, or just a higher friction fit if doing single deployment?
 
When you fly the Formula with the upper airframe do you do anything special to affix the nose cone so it doesn't slide off, or just a higher friction fit if doing single deployment?

Nosecone is usually held in place with shear pins, 3x2-56 nylon screws. That ensures that the nosecone doesn't pop off when jerked by the drogue chute.
I also want to chime in in favor of doing HED first. Having done my L2 with a regular payload then grabbing a Punisher, I would've rather done HED first. It's the Exact same concept, cheaper, better performance, and fewer parts to keep track of. It's really a natural step... Also, you can do your L2 with motor eject, just keep the nosecone shear pinned in place on the coupler. Seriously, don't dismiss it as a possibility. Either standard DD or HED will get the job done, so I'm not poo-pooing the standard, I'm just saying that if you're learning DD, HED really isn't any more difficult to do.
Seriously, wait and watch for Wildman sales. He just may have a rocket coming out that fits exactly what you need for L2 and learning HED.
I got my L2 on a 38mm-6 grain J400 on a rocket that only went to 2000. Motor eject (with some added BP). Easy recovery. THEN I set about learning DD on the same rocket. Which just went to 12,578 on K300 at MWP.
 
Welcome!!! :)

Wildman Punisher! :grin:


  • Wildman is likely to have one or more as a BF special.
  • CJ has a build thread on it, so you can follow that.
  • The name is too cool!


Would be way too cool to see a CF Punisher. I'm sure it would make a lot of us drool! :drool:

Ummmm....Like this ONE!

DSCN5211.jpg DSCN5214.jpg

I say just "Punish" yourself.....you've been a bad boy!

Follow the easy build steps right here, photo essay, ya can't go wrong! I don't think you will find more complete build instructions anywhere & that's what ya need to do it right.
Hundreds of there flier's agree. Over 50,000 views

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?120615-CJ-s-quot-PUNISHER-quot-build!
 
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When you fly the Formula with the upper airframe do you do anything special to affix the nose cone so it doesn't slide off, or just a higher friction fit if doing single deployment?

I drilled, countersunk, and tapped two 2x56 holes for nylon screw shear pins.
 
You are kinda in trouble now. Asking people here is like asking what's the best scotch at an AA meeting. My advice is pick something that looks cool and have fun with it. Learn tracking sooner than you think you need it because you will need it sooner than you think.
 
You are kinda in trouble now. Asking people here is like asking what's the best scotch at an AA meeting. My advice is pick something that looks cool and have fun with it. Learn tracking sooner than you think you need it because you will need it sooner than you think.

+10000
 
My first DD was my L1 cert rocket. After flying DD with L1 for several years before doing L2, I would recommend getting a 38mm DD rocket that weighs 4 to 6 lbs. Have fun with DD and the full range of L1 motors that 38mm gives you.

Once you want to do L2, I would recommend a 54mm rocket. The diameter and weight should be based on flying conditions and waiver at your home field. After flying DD at L1 you should be able to easily determine what that is.

Have fun with L1
 
In addition to DD, I would work on installing an AV bay in the nose cone. Even if you only put an altimeter in it, it's a nice next thing to learn/try in adding to your rocketry building skill set.
 
In addition to DD, I would work on installing an AV bay in the nose cone. Even if you only put an altimeter in it, it's a nice next thing to learn/try in adding to your rocketry building skill set.
Can you think of any good post or build log for someone retrofitting a nose cone av bay on an already built rocket? That would also let me use a cable cutter type dual deployment in the formula 54.
 
Can you think of any good post or build log for someone retrofitting a nose cone av bay on an already built rocket? That would also let me use a cable cutter type dual deployment in the formula 54.

What does your nose cone look like right now? if you can grind out the original bulk plate, you can use one of the nose cone sleds from ape-rc.com. I highly recommend his stuff. I don't know the exact nose cone the formula 54 uses, but I used one of his 2.1" sleds on my scarab, which is also 54mm- with only minimal grinding.
 
What does your nose cone look like right now? if you can grind out the original bulk plate, you can use one of the nose cone sleds from ape-rc.com. I highly recommend his stuff. I don't know the exact nose cone the formula 54 uses, but I used one of his 2.1" sleds on my scarab, which is also 54mm- with only minimal grinding.

The nose cone has a coupler joined to it with epoxy (both fiberglass), with a g10 coupler inside that, again joined with epoxy. I used BSI 30 minute epoxy for all of that. I have access to a reflow workstation, so I could possibly heat the epoxy fairly precisely to remove instead of grinding if that might work better.
 
The nose cone has a coupler joined to it with epoxy (both fiberglass), with a g10 coupler inside that, again joined with epoxy. I used BSI 30 minute epoxy for all of that. I have access to a reflow workstation, so I could possibly heat the epoxy fairly precisely to remove instead of grinding if that might work better.

Why do you have 2 couplers in it? or just a coupler and a bulk plate? Should be possible to heat and remove, although I'm not familiar with 30 min epoxy. The other option is to get a new nose cone and work with that?
 
Why do you have 2 couplers in it? or just a coupler and a bulk plate? Should be possible to heat and remove, although I'm not familiar with 30 min epoxy. The other option is to get a new nose cone and work with that?
There is one coupler, attached to the cone, which from the looks of it is made with fiberglass filament. To that a single bulk-plate was mounted. Another nose cone can also work. I also got parts to build a simple payload bay as well.
 
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