Magnum 2032 (E-mod) build thread + CATO, Rebuild & Relaunch!

Mostly salvageable, I'll have to cut the sustainer fins out and replace the body tube from around the silver stripes down. The booster is a bit dinged but still functional.



The booster was overbuilt a little, maybe that's why it's still in once piece?




Here you can see the ding from being blasted back to the pad.




The sustainer mount was blown clean off the centering rings. The mount was the stock Vagabond E-size mount with the spacer for C and D motors.




This part was still on fire, had to stamp it out. I suppose I can still salvage the fins here.




Here is where the motor w/ mount ended up, upper part of the body tube. It's just sitting loose in there.




The 2 sheets of wadding plus the small nomex sheet did their job well as the nylon chute is still pristine. The shock cord will need to be replaced as it got torched in a few spots.




Here's the culprit. Not common for these I hear but I suspect it was heat-cycled in improper storage while at the hobby shop for 5 years before I bought them last fall.




Now I don't believe in curses, but I am now 0-3 with two-stagers.

Good thing I have plenty of BT-60, I can & will rebuild - the "MagnaPhoenix"?

Ah... so the MMT in the sustainer broke free after the C11-0 CATOed. Looks like yours was a lot worse mine. My booster shows the most damage, because the motor didn't get nearly so far up inside of the sustainer. Mine was flying on a D12-0, with a C6-7, IIRC.





As for my success ratio on two stagers, I think I'm somewhere around 11-3 (not counting rockets damaged while not in flight).

As you can clearly see, this was built in my days before sealing, priming, then painting.


Let me say that I'm sorry to see that your rocket fared as well as mine.

That was painful to watch. For what it's worth, I've had pretty good luck with C11-0 boosters in my Magnum.

I have two more C11-0s from the same package. Do I even want to attempt using them? If in fact this was caused by a crack in the BP caused by heat cycling(I didn't drop them or anything) then would it be safe to say that the other two are at high risk for CATO as well?

I'll look into filing a mess report but as far as Estes is concerned, I don't think they can help me in this case since I'm north of the border and the rocket was scratch built. I guess just chalk it up as one of hopefully few destroyed rockets to come.

Only issue now is what do I do with these other two C11s???

Cabernut said:

I have two more C11-0s from the same package. Do I even want to attempt using them? If in fact this was caused by a crack in the BP caused by heat cycling(I didn't drop them or anything) then would it be safe to say that the other two are at high risk for CATO as well?

I'll look into filing a mess report but as far as Estes is concerned, I don't think they can help me in this case since I'm north of the border and the rocket was scratch built. I guess just chalk it up as one of hopefully few destroyed rockets to come.

Only issue now is what do I do with these other two C11s???

Click to expand...

That Vagabond you used to build it isn't scratch built, you should be able to be reimbursed for that at least. However, I don't know how Estes handles claims north of the border.

Any other Canadians on the forums you can ask about MESS reports?

I was able to file a mess report. As far as reimbursement for the rocket, shipping anything across the border would add another $20 or so and I don't want to do that to them as it really wasn't their fault anyway. C11s don't have a history like E9s do. I'll just repair and move on.

I guess it does reinforce the idea that buying old BP motors from a hobby shop is a bit more risky. You don't know how they've been stored over the years.

I'll use these remaining old C11s somewhere/somehow that I can do so safely. Besides I have a few D12-0s that can take their place

First, thank you very much for filing a MESS report. Very few people do, but everybody who experiences a problem with a motor should, even if they blame themselves, because that's how the hobby can be improved.
Go ahead and ask Estes for compensation. They have dealers in Canada that can help.


[emoji1010] Steve Shannon, P.E. [emoji1010]

Hold on a sec... that is the exact same date code as the E9 CATOs in this thread :shock:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?131561-Estes-E9-4-amp-E9-6-CATO-(pics)

Makes me wonder what was going on at the plant that day. :marshmallow:


Anyway... I started on the rebuild last night, getting the good parts cleaned up and ready, making a list of what's needed.

Re-build commenced!

Fins sanded for re-attachment, new body tube section and new elastic cord have been cut to size. MMT is reusable.




I have extra launch lug stock and need to cut new centering rings. I don't have any BT-60 couplers though, I'll have to order that.

This may be a good time to consider installing a baffle! Location is perfect.

I'll be watching!

Pointy Side UP!

I feel almost ill when I see some of these CATO reports, particularly on maiden flights of lovingly constructed models like this one. I guess it comes with the territory, part of the weird psychology of building and launching rockets. I haven't experienced a CATO or any particularly destructive incidents yet, but it's only a matter of time.

Congrats on diving right into the rebuild, may your future flights have happier endings!

Thanks guys.

Two maiden flight failures with this model have turned my "Eleanor" into my "White Whale". If 10 fail, I'll build 11.

Here is why the fins can no longer be TTW...

TTWC - Through-the-wall-CHARCOAL




New body tube marked, prepped, and first fin going on. Alignment is so much easier with a complete booster.

Rebuilt the motor mount with papered 1/8" balsa centering rings.




And epoxied in place...




I was tempted to install a baffle while I had the chance, but I already have a nomex chute protector for it which did it's job well so far. I'll just stay with that.

The new elastic cord has been attached so all that's left is to wait for the BT-60 couplers to arrive.

Finally got the couplers - ordering and picking up from an RC-centric LHS took longer and was more expensive than than just ordering from a rocketry-centered site and having it delivered. :confused2:

Anyway, that was all I needed to finish the rebuild. Back in business! Flight ready. I'm going to wait on the paint this time until I have a successful flight and recovery. Then it will earn it's paint.


For it's re-maiden(or remade-en?) flight I'm tempted to throw in an E12/D12 combo and giv'er 'ell! I'll probably do a D12/D12 though. Not messing with C11s with this one anymore.

"Remade-en" Cute!

Straight Smoke! Good Chutes!

Successful flight today on a D12-0/D12-5 to about 1150 ft. Finally the curse has been lifted! I was beginning to wonder after my Loadstar II failed to light the second stage and lawn-darted, I was 0-4 with two-stagers. Now I'm 1-4

Here's the video of the launch from the pad, followed by the 808 cam view.

[youtube]ulmmgiW41J4[/youtube]


808 view just below the nose block. Sorry for the potato-cam quality. That's what you get for $5 on Ebay I suppose.

[youtube]sncsoYjWoRo[/youtube]

Cabernut said:

Successful flight today on a D12-0/D12-5 to about 1150 ft. Finally the curse has been lifted! I was beginning to wonder after my Loadstar II failed to light the second stage and lawn-darted, I was 0-4 with two-stagers. Now I'm 1-4

Here's the video of the launch from the pad, followed by the 808 cam view.

[youtube]ulmmgiW41J4[/youtube]


808 view just below the nose block. Sorry for the potato-cam quality. That's what you get for $5 on Ebay I suppose.

[youtube]sncsoYjWoRo[/youtube]

Click to expand...

Congrats on both the flight and the avoidance of the trees!

Here's to it having a long history of successful flights!

There's one small patch of trees in the middle of the sod field. Despite all the open space, there were quite a few near misses. In fact one rocket with three chutes(eye candy for trees) landed safely right between two large trees.

Now the Magnum has earned its paint. Even though its designed for a BP E motor, I won't use one in it. At the club launch yesterday there was a double CATO - two stage with Es that both blew. Quite spectacular fireworks.

Regarding the CATO... since the date code on the C11-0 that blew was exactly the same as one of the E CATO threads (A 06 28 11) I decided to ask Estes about it. I emailed them and they, in their gold-standard customer service, replied promptly and offered to hook me up with a kit as compensation for the motors. They sent me two kits. Wow I was(am) really impressed! They will get the cost of the kits back in motor sales for sure! A happy customer is a repeat customer.

Thank you Estes!

What does CATO mean? I know it has something to do with motor explosions but I dont know what the acronym means.

Catastrophe At Take Off

Cabernut said:

Catastrophe At Take Off

Click to expand...

That's one of the variations that I've heard... And it can be subject to extensive (and passionate) debate.

For sake of argument, lets forget the actual acronym, and just think of it as "Something really really bad happened just after I pushed the button"

usually one of three things, flames coming out the top of the motor, flames coming out the back end road flare style, or flames coming out the side of the rocket, none of which is desirable.
Rex

Bluegillbronco2 said:

What does CATO mean? I know it has something to do with motor explosions but I dont know what the acronym means.

Click to expand...

I never thought it's an acronym. It's just short for catastrophic failure.


[emoji1010] Steve Shannon [emoji1010]

It's either, neither or both - thus the debate.

CATO and Cato - take your pick, we all know when it happens :y: