TFS Boosted Dart Project

madcow rocketry
SilicdyneTRF
rocket sok
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Fincan painted!

1/8" G10 fiberglass fins with Rocketpoxy fillets with 2 layers carbon fiber. 3 coats of ceramic paint to act as an ablative and keep everything smooth. Looking ready to fly!

13020230_1028773003882417_848000509_n.jpg
 
ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540869.323443.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540879.837609.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540889.627867.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540905.035903.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540914.927099.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540928.942643.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540938.945353.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461540959.950058.jpg

She's ready to fly! I have to say I'm kinda proud how well this turned out. Hopefully she flies as good as she looks.
 
So... I'm a huge fan of the boosted Dart... I would love to start experimenting on a much smaller scale. Could you possibly point me in a direction to get some basic resources/designs, etc?
 
CzTeacherMan said:
So... I'm a huge fan of the boosted Dart... I would love to start experimenting on a much smaller scale. Could you possibly point me in a direction to get some basic resources/designs, etc?
Click to expand...

This is where I've gotten most of my information. https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/750796.pdf

Maybe not the best starter material, but still a great source for information on the Super Loki boosted dart. Open Rocket does simulate boosted darts if you use a "dummy" motor and treat it like a regular two stage. (A dummy motor is a very low impulse motor that's effects are negligible.)
 
Solarover12 said:
This is where I've gotten most of my information. https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/750796.pdf

Maybe not the best starter material, but still a great source for information on the Super Loki boosted dart. Open Rocket does simulate boosted darts if you use a "dummy" motor and treat it like a regular two stage. (A dummy motor is a very low impulse motor that's effects are negligible.)
Click to expand...

Nice! Thanks!!
 
Too bad! interesting oscillating sound of the parts coming in, however- what was that, exactly?
 
The dart shredded in at least 3 pieces, and surprisingly enough the booster stayed in one piece with the fincan holding on by a thread. The chute actually deployed on the booster, but since I was using a time delay it deployed much too late to make a difference. You can hear a few separate pieces coming in, but the main one was the booster basically fluttering in. Wasn't exactly perfectly stable with a 8" or so hole in the side.
 
Solarover12 said:
15g 50/50 mix of copper/iron thermite.
Click to expand...

Ouch! You know, I observed that WUMP! of the thermite going off and I wonder if that could have caused a grain defect that initiated the failure? With a high L/D motor, I've been told to use a standard igniter 2/3rd's the way up the motor.

I've done ground tests with thermite and have observed it to explode with super fine reagents. Courser reagents are what's desired and not the stupid fines that the pyro guys use.

Kurt
 
You should put a blast plate under the rocket.
Thermite causes more pain than gain IMHO - unless you are flying a cluster where you need instant-on, I would avoid like the plague....now you know why.

Nice attempt - hope you'll try again.
 
FredA said:
You should put a blast plate under the rocket.
Thermite causes more pain than gain IMHO - unless you are flying a cluster where you need instant-on, I would avoid like the plague....now you know why.

Nice attempt - hope you'll try again.
Click to expand...

I was going to post a link to another recent thread where the monolithic motor grain split under the auspices of thermite but it's in the restricted research section. Not all would be able to see. Suffice it to say, if not doing a cluster, staging or avoiding of having to wear a dress for losing a drag race it's probably reasonable to consider a standard nichrome igniter. The most I would do is perhaps dip with a primary pyrogen (commercial or homemade) and then consider a secondary dip of magnesium, Teflon and Viton. Uncured Viton pellets can be hard to find but it doesn't take much. One can use Google for details if interested.
MTV has a higher heat of activation so a primary dip of a standard pyrogen is helpful to get the MTV to light. I did some single dipped MTV with no initiator out of curiosity for ground testing, pushed the button and just waited........waited.........waited.........and FLASH! Kurt
 
ksaves2 said:
I was going to post a link to another recent thread where the monolithic motor grain split under the auspices of thermite but it's in the restricted research section. Not all would be able to see. Suffice it to say, if not doing a cluster, staging or avoiding of having to wear a dress for losing a drag race it's probably reasonable to consider a standard nichrome igniter. The most I would do is perhaps dip with a primary pyrogen (commercial or homemade) and then consider a secondary dip of magnesium, Teflon and Viton. Uncured Viton pellets can be hard to find but it doesn't take much. One can use Google for details if interested.
MTV has a higher heat of activation so a primary dip of a standard pyrogen is helpful to get the MTV to light. I did some single dipped MTV with no initiator out of curiosity for ground testing, pushed the button and just waited........waited.........waited.........and FLASH! Kurt
Click to expand...

Pretty sure that rocket is the same being talked about here...
 
ksaves2 said:
MTV has a higher heat of activation so a primary dip of a standard pyrogen is helpful to get the MTV to light. I did some single dipped MTV with no initiator out of curiosity for ground testing, pushed the button and just waited........waited.........waited.........and FLASH! Kurt
Click to expand...

You can regulate the speed of this mixture by playing with the binder (Rubber or NC) and the size(s) of the Mg.
They give off the most heat of anything I've played with.

I've not followed this thread very closely. You really need to know your formula to get them to behave in long motors. I always work my way up to the long motors. Knowing the "CHuffing Kn" is a big help, long grains and maybe even a phenolic nozzle and a "soft start" (regular igniter not at the top of the motor) are all things to consider.

Tony
 
Solarover12 said:
This is where I've gotten most of my information. https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/750796.pdf

Maybe not the best starter material, but still a great source for information on the Super Loki boosted dart. Open Rocket does simulate boosted darts if you use a "dummy" motor and treat it like a regular two stage. (A dummy motor is a very low impulse motor that's effects are negligible.)
Click to expand...

The "dummy motor" can work as well with Open Rocket. Use something like an Estes 1/2A. The challenge with OR is that it doesn't like an upper stage that has zero radius at the end of the boat tail.
 
FredA said:
You should put a blast plate under the rocket.
Thermite causes more pain than gain IMHO - unless you are flying a cluster where you need instant-on, I would avoid like the plague....now you know why.

Nice attempt - hope you'll try again.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was quite surprised to find a 4' deep hole under the tower I had to painstakingly fill in lol.

I'm certainly going to keep moving forward on this project. I'm already working on the parts for a composite cased motor in this same configuration with the case wrapped around the propellant. Every failure is just nature's way of telling you what works and what doesn't.

-Clay
 
bobkrech said:
Probably should have been about 1 g or so about half way up the bore to insure a soft start.......

15 g is likely split or shatter the propellant grain.
Click to expand...

tfish said:
You can regulate the speed of this mixture by playing with the binder (Rubber or NC) and the size(s) of the Mg.
They give off the most heat of anything I've played with.

I've not followed this thread very closely. You really need to know your formula to get them to behave in long motors. I always work my way up to the long motors. Knowing the "CHuffing Kn" is a big help, long grains and maybe even a phenolic nozzle and a "soft start" (regular igniter not at the top of the motor) are all things to consider.

Tony
Click to expand...

ksaves2 said:
I was going to post a link to another recent thread where the monolithic motor grain split under the auspices of thermite but it's in the restricted research section. Not all would be able to see. Suffice it to say, if not doing a cluster, staging or avoiding of having to wear a dress for losing a drag race it's probably reasonable to consider a standard nichrome igniter. The most I would do is perhaps dip with a primary pyrogen (commercial or homemade) and then consider a secondary dip of magnesium, Teflon and Viton. Uncured Viton pellets can be hard to find but it doesn't take much. One can use Google for details if interested.
MTV has a higher heat of activation so a primary dip of a standard pyrogen is helpful to get the MTV to light. I did some single dipped MTV with no initiator out of curiosity for ground testing, pushed the button and just waited........waited.........waited.........and FLASH! Kurt
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information guys. It seems like the consensus is I need a better ignitor. (I also think bonding the propellant grain into the case could also solve this issue) On all my other motors I simply tape an ematch to a piece of scrap propellant and that seems to work well. The reason I chose this insane amount of thermite for this motor was the fact I was starting this motor at a somewhat low Kn (but still way above the chuffing Kn) and I wanted to make sure I got out of the tower at a decent velocity. (Which I suppose I achieved lol) Part of me also wanted to keep in spirit of the Loki Dart which used a copper thermite ignitor.

-Clay
 
Quick update on the project. Recently CNC machined a copper ogive nosecone for the dart with the help of Alex Laraway. Still needs some mild finishing work, but it turned out much better than predicted. (Copper is not an easy metal to machine.) Full scale attempt of this project should be ready for BALLS this year.

29mm x 12" nosecone just under 3lbs

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1492140836.991047.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1492140851.384116.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1492140860.435981.jpg

Next up is to make the carbon case!

-Clay
 
Just spotted this thread and was sure to subscribe. My team is going to be attempting a ballistic dart similar to this next year on our 10,000 lbf-s motor. We're hoping for 150,000 ft. 100 km is extremely ambitious; best of luck!
 
JackO said:
Just spotted this thread and was sure to subscribe. My team is going to be attempting a ballistic dart similar to this next year on our 10,000 lbf-s motor. We're hoping for 150,000 ft. 100 km is extremely ambitious; best of luck!
Click to expand...

Did you really mean Ballistic Dart. That's how most of they project end up anyway!

Tony
 

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