SAD NEWS - First model rocket flight fatality announced by NAR President

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Hi,

i joined because someone told me on the article rockerteers wanted more information for rocket safety concerns. I was at the event. My husband is a scoutmaster and we took our troop to this event. We were all very excited. All of our kids including myself built rockets from the EStes kits you buy at hobby lobby. They did launch safety with the kids and had leaders running the launches on the kids. If there's anything that I can take back to my troop about how to correctly go about having a rocket launch day with our troop I would love that information. I know the kids want to launch them but honestly at this point after witnessing everything unless they are made out of cotton balls and marshmallows I'm not sure how I feel.

The rocket that was launched I'm not sure if it was a kit. I can post a picture of it and maybe you'll recognize it. The leader who was killed was a great person and I think that this was the equivalent of being struck by lighting as it was so horrific and strange.

Mother rocket was at least 4 feet by 4 inches in diameter. I saw that the launch pads were angled away from the crowd. I myself not knowing much about rockets noticed it because I thought it was off but now I know. The rockets that were launched before this we're going straight away from the crowd. Far into the lake bed. This rocket launched. Did not go very high, turned exactly straight back down and nose dived exactly where it was shot from. My 911 call was at 11:41pm. He was looking at the sky people yelled. It was like he didn't see it and it hit his face. He fell and the leader next to him immediately yelled for the kids to stay back and for 911. We were at the launch pad beside him. I called 911 with other leaders. They immediately had a nurse that happened to be at the event coordinate everything. They started a CPR chain and it took over 40min to an hour for the ambulance to arrive on site after CPR and then the helicopter came and took him.

It it was horrific and my heart goes out to his family. Such a fun day was turned so tragic. If anyone can tell me how to post a pic I can put one of the rockets as they launched.

NAR.org and I'm sure others will have more info than I. Our launches always have at least one first responder (I and one other one) so it can't hurt to check among your club or anyone who may attend the launches. Were you guys launching as a part of a club? If not I recommend you looking for a club in your general area... Please don't be that person or group that has one bad incident and then quits and says they're dangerous.... I recommend taking a CPR class as well... Learn how to do a cycle of compressions and get an aed... These aren't requirements but precautions especially for the summer when it's hot.... When you say "arrive on scene (site) after cpr" do you mean the people who initiated cpr stopped as the ambulance arrived?
 
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Their were at least 20 people who were trained CPR people helping him and the scouts are trained as well but we did not allow them due to the severity of the incident. I was not with them when the ambulance arrived. I imagine they did it with the paramedics
 
Hi,

i joined because someone told me on the article rockerteers wanted more information for rocket safety concerns. I was at the event. My husband is a scoutmaster and we took our troop to this event. We were all very excited. All of our kids including myself built rockets from the EStes kits you buy at hobby lobby. They did launch safety with the kids and had leaders running the launches on the kids. If there's anything that I can take back to my troop about how to correctly go about having a rocket launch day with our troop I would love that information. I know the kids want to launch them but honestly at this point after witnessing everything unless they are made out of cotton balls and marshmallows I'm not sure how I feel.

The rocket that was launched I'm not sure if it was a kit. I can post a picture of it and maybe you'll recognize it. The leader who was killed was a great person and I think that this was the equivalent of being struck by lighting as it was so horrific and strange.

Mother rocket was at least 4 feet by 4 inches in diameter. I saw that the launch pads were angled away from the crowd. I myself not knowing much about rockets noticed it because I thought it was off but now I know. The rockets that were launched before this we're going straight away from the crowd. Far into the lake bed. This rocket launched. Did not go very high, turned exactly straight back down and nose dived exactly where it was shot from. My 911 call was at 11:41 am. He was looking at the sky people yelled. It was like he didn't see it and it hit his face. He fell and the leader next to him immediately yelled for the kids to stay back and for 911. We were at the launch pad beside him. I called 911 with other leaders. They immediately had a nurse that happened to be at the event coordinate everything. They started a CPR chain and it took over 40min to an hour for the ambulance to arrive on site after CPR and then the helicopter came and took him.

It it was horrific and my heart goes out to his family. Such a fun day was turned so tragic. If anyone can tell me how to post a pic I can put one of the rockets as they launched.

Thank you for coming here to post this; my sincere condolences on your tragic loss.
 
The rocket that was launched I'm not sure if it was a kit. I can post a picture of it and maybe you'll recognize it. The leader who was killed was a great person and I think that this was the equivalent of being struck by lighting as it was so horrific and strange.

My 911 call was at 11:41 am. He was looking at the sky people yelled. It was like he didn't see it and it hit his face.

It it was horrific and my heart goes out to his family. Such a fun day was turned so tragic. If anyone can tell me how to post a pic I can put one of the rockets as they launched.
First of all, please accept my condolences on this tragic event and my praise for that CPR chain. From the time you posted, if it was a clear day, I'd speculate that he lost sight of the rocket in the sun and, coming straight toward him, he wouldn't have seen it even while others at a distance clearly could. This was a freak accident, so don't get discouraged. However, I'd recommend you find a local NAR or Tripoli club to stop by, evaluate your launch safety procedures, and possibly provide recommendations:

https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/nar-club-locator/

https://www.tripoli.org/Prefectures/mapID/6

I've read others here comment that the picture posting option doesn't work. Also, even if it did, there is a file size limit. I always post photos via links. Anyone have any ideas?
 
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Hi,

i joined because someone told me on the article rockerteers wanted more information for rocket safety concerns. I was at the event. My husband is a scoutmaster and we took our troop to this event. We were all very excited. All of our kids including myself built rockets from the EStes kits you buy at hobby lobby. They did launch safety with the kids and had leaders running the launches on the kids. If there's anything that I can take back to my troop about how to correctly go about having a rocket launch day with our troop I would love that information. I know the kids want to launch them but honestly at this point after witnessing everything unless they are made out of cotton balls and marshmallows I'm not sure how I feel.

The rocket that was launched I'm not sure if it was a kit. I can post a picture of it and maybe you'll recognize it. The leader who was killed was a great person and I think that this was the equivalent of being struck by lighting as it was so horrific and strange.

Mother rocket was at least 4 feet by 4 inches in diameter. I saw that the launch pads were angled away from the crowd. I myself not knowing much about rockets noticed it because I thought it was off but now I know. The rockets that were launched before this we're going straight away from the crowd. Far into the lake bed. This rocket launched. Did not go very high, turned exactly straight back down and nose dived exactly where it was shot from. My 911 call was at 11:41 am. He was looking at the sky people yelled. It was like he didn't see it and it hit his face. He fell and the leader next to him immediately yelled for the kids to stay back and for 911. We were at the launch pad beside him. I called 911 with other leaders. They immediately had a nurse that happened to be at the event coordinate everything. They started a CPR chain and it took over 40min to an hour for the ambulance to arrive on site after CPR and then the helicopter came and took him.

It it was horrific and my heart goes out to his family. Such a fun day was turned so tragic. If anyone can tell me how to post a pic I can put one of the rockets as they launched.

My condolences and thank you for your insight. My suggestion would be to NOT post your pictures in any open forum. I would encourage you to contact the president of the National Association of Rocketry, Ted Cochran, through the contact info found here: www.nar.org
 
Sttct,

I add my heartfelt condolences. I truly cannot imagine what it was like to have been there, to have known him, and to have seen that happen.

The way to attach a picture is to click "Go Advanced", and then use "Manage Attachments" to upload and insert the image. We would definitely like to see the image.

In response to your questions about safety, may I direct you to the National Association of Rocketry's safety code page?

From what you have described, it sounds like the rocket was unstable. Stability in a rocket is achieved by having the rocket's center of aerodynamic pressure (CP) at least one airframe diameter aft of the rocket's center of gravity (CG). The center of pressure is determined by the shape of the rocket, whereas the center of gravity is determined by the distribution of weight.

One way, perhaps, to have avoided this, would be to have anyone who wants to launch a rocket clearly be able to identify where the CP and CG are. When a rocket leaves the rod and then suddenly turns sideways, it is almost always because the CP/CG ratio is misplaced.

Another thing to take with you is the relationship of the motor's thrust to the weight of the rocket. Whereas the NAR safety code requires a 3:1 thrust to weight ratio, experienced rocket fliers have found that a 5:1 ratio is more appropriate.

The table below shows motor thrust and the maximum weight of a rocket that it should propel. Of course, I have no idea if the weights were checked at the launch and compared to the motor being used. But if the thrust:weight ratio is too low, then the rocket doesn't have enough vertical speed coming off the pad, and then it is subject to the wind. So even a stable rocket (correct CP/CG) will turn with the wind if the correct thrust is not achieved.

Come on back if you have more questions. And again let me express my sympathy. :(


ThrustOunces
64.3
75.0
85.7
96.4
107.1
117.8
128.5
 
To upload a picture

At the bottom right of the post click on ADVANCED
Scroll down and click on MANAGE ATTACHMENTS
At the pop-up click BROWSE
locate your picture. You will be limited to 1MB size. Double click on the file. It should show up in the bottom pane of the pop-up window
Click on INSERT IN LINE
Then click DONE

looks like Bat-Mite beat me....

est2068@.gif
 
Their were at least 20 people who were trained CPR people helping him and the scouts are trained as well but we did not allow them due to the severity of the incident. I was not with them when the ambulance arrived. I imagine they did it with the paramedics

The EMTs probably took over... Just wanting clarification as once you start you aren't supposed to stop until someone can take over or you're too tired to go on... It's really sad that this happened. See if you can't find a club and reach out to them... They'll take you guys in! Especially if they're a TRA or NAR club. I can't recommend enough once you get your cpr cert make sure to practice it... Like every week... You guys did the right thing and if you need anyone to talk to in order to cope with it, I know exactly how you may feel and you can pm me... I deal with stuff like this a lot and it's hard...
 
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I still think it's premature and inappropriate to speculate on the cause of the accident. While an unstable rocket might be a logical explanation for the incident, a failure of the recovery system to eject and deploy sounds equally likely to me. A rocket of the size described in several posts (4" diameter, 4 feet in overall length) would still present a significant danger if it was coming in ballistic.

Without more complete information it's probably not productive to engage in the kind of brainstorm speculation most of us use while investigating our own far more trivial flight anomalies. So far none of us really have enough information to make more than a minimally educated guess as to the cause.
 
I still think it's premature and inappropriate to speculate on the cause of the accident. While an unstable rocket might be a logical explanation for the incident, a failure of the recovery system to eject and deploy sounds equally likely to me. A rocket of the size described in several posts (4" diameter, 4 feet in overall length) would still present a significant danger if it was coming in ballistic.

Without more complete information it's probably not productive to engage in the kind of brainstorm speculation most of us use while investigating our own far more trivial flight anomalies. So far none of us really have enough information to make more than a minimally educated guess as to the cause.

+1000
 
Without more complete information it's probably not productive to engage in the kind of brainstorm speculation most of us use while investigating our own far more trivial flight anomalies. So far none of us really have enough information to make more than a minimally educated guess as to the cause.
Agreed. At least two of the pictures I've seen give me the willies, but I'll reserve judgment until we have all of the facts.
 
Do not post any pictures from the scene here.

Teddy
 
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I personally believe that we should stop monday morning quarterbacking

we were not there. We don't know what happened.

My only hope out of the tragedy is that NAR create a training program for people who want to put on launches for scouts, CAP, TARC, 4-H and whoever else
And that at the appropriate time the NAR president invites all of the various groups to participate.

I'm a EMT/FF among other things. I had to stop and think about clubs owning AEDs. The questions I'd ask is how is it being charged and tested, who is doing the periodic maintence and who's responsible for the consumable supplies? Not saying it's good or bad, just curious. Our AEDs (lifepack) have single use pads that have storage temperature requirements, both high and low. They couldn't be left in a trailer, but need to be brought into a controlled room temperature. It's a very interesting discussion, perhaps, for clubs to have. Maybe another thread?
 
I am from the NAR Section (local club) that has the only legal launch site in Los Angeles County that is open to anyone from the general public on the scheduled dates and times.

here is the link to our website. The Links page has a document that has info on getting your own launch site - the links are not all working but the new version to be uploaded in late December has the links fixed.
https://home.earthlink.net/~mebowitz/


I posted this earlier and it contained info regarding Model Rocket weight limits per CA State Law:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ounced-by-NAR-President&p=1518539#post1518539


Hi,

i joined because someone told me on the article rockerteers wanted more information for rocket safety concerns. I was at the event. My husband is a scoutmaster and we took our troop to this event. We were all very excited. All of our kids including myself built rockets from the EStes kits you buy at hobby lobby. They did launch safety with the kids and had leaders running the launches on the kids. If there's anything that I can take back to my troop about how to correctly go about having a rocket launch day with our troop I would love that information. I know the kids want to launch them but honestly at this point after witnessing everything unless they are made out of cotton balls and marshmallows I'm not sure how I feel.

The rocket that was launched I'm not sure if it was a kit. I can post a picture of it and maybe you'll recognize it. The leader who was killed was a great person and I think that this was the equivalent of being struck by lighting as it was so horrific and strange.

Mother rocket was at least 4 feet by 4 inches in diameter. I saw that the launch pads were angled away from the crowd. I myself not knowing much about rockets noticed it because I thought it was off but now I know. The rockets that were launched before this we're going straight away from the crowd. Far into the lake bed. This rocket launched. Did not go very high, turned exactly straight back down and nose dived exactly where it was shot from. My 911 call was at 11:41 am. He was looking at the sky people yelled. It was like he didn't see it and it hit his face. He fell and the leader next to him immediately yelled for the kids to stay back and for 911. We were at the launch pad beside him. I called 911 with other leaders. They immediately had a nurse that happened to be at the event coordinate everything. They started a CPR chain and it took over 40min to an hour for the ambulance to arrive on site after CPR and then the helicopter came and took him.

It it was horrific and my heart goes out to his family. Such a fun day was turned so tragic. If anyone can tell me how to post a pic I can put one of the rockets as they launched.
 
Do not post any pictures from the scene here.

Teddy


As long as it's a picture of the rocket in question taken BEFORE the incident took place I don't see anything wrong with posting a picture. If it's from after the incident then I understand completely, but the way Sttct made it sound it was just a photo of the rocket that just happened to be taken sometime beforehand or perhaps a picture of the launch.
 
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Please accept our condolences.

As long as it's a picture of the rocket in question taken BEFORE the incident took place I don't see anything wrong with posting a picture. If it's from after the incident then I understand completely, but the way Sttct made it sound it was just a photo of the rocket that just happened to be taken sometime beforehand or perhaps a picture of the launch.

Teddy's right - no good can come from posting a pic here. Please share what you have with Ted Cochran.
 
Sttct- thank you for the more detailed information and please accept my condolences on the loss of a person who seems to have been a great guy.

I appreciate the description of the rocket because I was at least trying to determine if this accident involved a more typical small model rocket that are usually used with group launches.

It would be useful to know if the rocket was a kit that would have been presumed to be of a stable design, or if it was more experimental in nature.
 
I would not post photos unless they were pre-flight.
 
i joined because someone told me on the article rockerteers wanted more information for rocket safety concerns. I was at the event. My husband is a scoutmaster and we took our troop to this event. We were all very excited. All of our kids including myself built rockets from the EStes kits you buy at hobby lobby. They did launch safety with the kids and had leaders running the launches on the kids. If there's anything that I can take back to my troop about how to correctly go about having a rocket launch day with our troop I would love that information. I know the kids want to launch them but honestly at this point after witnessing everything unless they are made out of cotton balls and marshmallows I'm not sure how I feel.



Thank you for posting. I'm sorry this happened. This is a terrible tragedy. The questioning is not an attempt to be ghoulish. This concerns us greatly. We all live in fear of this, and do what we can to prevent it. The questioning is not an accusation of what happened, but out of concern for ways to prevent it.

Photos of the rocket would be very helpful, and any information on it's weight, and what motor was used. Wind direction would also help. If you need, email the photo to me at [email protected] and I will post it.


This is very tragic, and I, and all of us here, are sorry it happened. If you have a desire to launch safely, It can be done. Local groups can help organize a launch, and if you need advice, many here, as well as myself are willing to help. Feel free to contact me at the address above with any concerns.
 
Thanks for your post Sttct, it was informative.
 
Sttct-First of all, I offer my prayers and condolences to all who were affected by this tragedy. It is a horrendous time for a family but your Scouting community certainly is grieving as well. We lost one of our ASMs in an ATV accident last year and it was a difficult time for the Troop and Pack. I also want to thank you for taking the time to contact us and making an effort to provide the community with first hand information about this incident. I second the advice to contact the National Association of Rocketry with your information and pictures from the event. I also second the advice against posting any pictures to an open forum such as this right now.
 
In addition to Mr. Bentley's immediate family, friends and scout group, the friend whose errant rocket caused his death should also be remembered in our thoughts and prayers. He must be going through hell as a result of this unintentional and tragic event. I can imagine very few things that would be worse.

Michael Bentley, a 50-year-old Highland resident, was there watching his friend launch a homemade rocket, San Bernardino County sheriff’s officials wrote in a news release.
 
I also second the advice against posting any pictures to an open forum such as this right now.

There's a bunch of advice against posting photos. Post flight, I would agree. However It was clear the photos are pre flight.

As our intent here is to try and get a handle on what really happened, and not speculate, a photo of the rocket would be VERY helpful to the safety of others going forward.


realize the local PD is not equipped to investigate this. The NAR and TRA have no authority, and would legally not be in a position to share that info with us.

The only way we're going to be able to learn from this and prevent anything further, is by talking to people who where there and learning what happened. We can not trust anyone else to do it for us.

Model, motor, wind direction relative to spectators. .... all we need to know. (or rocket size, weight, etc)
 
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There's a bunch of advice against posting photos. Post flight, I would agree. However It was clear the photos are pre flight.

As our intent here is to try and get a handle on what really happened, and not speculate, a photo of the rocket would be VERY helpful to the safety of others going forward.


realize the local PD is not equipped to investigate this. The NAR and TRA have no authority, and would legally not be in a position to share that info with us.

The only way we're going to be able to learn from this and prevent anything further, is by talking to people who where there and learning what happened. We can not trust anyone else to do it for us.

Model, motor, wind direction relative to spectators. .... all we need to know. (or rocket size, weight, etc)

I agree with you Dave.

I believe there are lessons to be learned from this, or it may just be a reinforcement of existing lessons, however no one is better equipped to do this more than our community. This is not a case of a morbid sense of curiosity or being insensitive. This should be about us having more facts so we do not have to speculate. The worst case I can see is that we can pass more informed, or reinforced, recommendations on to organizations such as BSA that do not have the experience and expertise that collectively this community has. Maybe it will even prevent another loss in the future.
 
,
In addition to Mr. Bentley's immediate family, friends and scout group, the friend whose errant rocket caused his death should also be remembered in our thoughts and prayers. He must be going through hell as a result of this unintentional and tragic event. I can imagine very few things that would be worse.

Michael Bentley, a 50-year-old Highland resident, was there watching his friend launch a homemade rocket, San Bernardino County sheriff’s officials wrote in a news release.

Ted makes an excellent point here, and thanks for that.

As for posting a picture of the rocket I would advise against doing so for what my opinion is worth. We may be able to look at it and say, yep that rocket is inherently unstable. Other than that, there is nothing that picture is going to teach us that hasn't already been conveyed about launch safety (rod angle, rod size, adequate thrust, launch angle, spectator orientation, etc.). Instead, I would echo the advice others have given, and strongly recommend seeking out a local club. I am sure they will be willing to help you make any future launch meet the highest level of safety. At one of these clubs you will find people with tens of thousands of flights between them, and all the experience that comes with that. In the end, we all care about this hobby and the people who participate in it, particularly children. Many of us have small children that we take to launches, and we appreciate what a positive experience a launch can be for them when it is done in the safest manner possible.

Lastly, please accept my condolences for the loss your community has suffered. It is clear from what I have read that Mr. Bentley truly possessed a servant's heart. I will keep his family, friends and all the scouts in my prayers.
 
I agree that any photos of the accident would not be suitable for here, but privately could be invaluable for those investigating what occurred, including NAR President Ted Cochran. But that does not seem to be the kind of photos that were mentioned anyway.

But I definitely do think that it would be useful here to see a pre-flight photo of the rocket so we can understand more of what it was like.

- George Gassaway
 
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I have been thinking about the loss to his family and the burden on his friend since I first read about the accident and instead of speculating about what happened let's focus on safety. I want to thank the people who serve at the launches I attend starting with DARS. Jack, Suzie, Sam, Chuck and the rest do an amazing job with safety with large groups of kids. I trust you guys to work with and teach my nephew William. I don't know everyone's name at Tripoli Houston but Andy and crew and Marlin at Asa are first rate also. As for a personal new commitment to safety, if you are at a launch I am at and a second set of eyes will help get it up and back safely just ask I will take the time. I will be helping as RSO at Asa so know your CP/CG locations and thrust to weight (what it really weighs ) and we will learn from each other. Sorry for the rant but I felt the need to say something good about our people and hobby in the mist of what has happened . I don't normally comment, I build and post pictures and I promise to get back to that.
 
In addition to Mr. Bentley's immediate family, friends and scout group, the friend whose errant rocket caused his death should also be remembered in our thoughts and prayers. He must be going through hell as a result of this unintentional and tragic event. I can imagine very few things that would be worse.

Michael Bentley, a 50-year-old Highland resident, was there watching his friend launch a homemade rocket, San Bernardino County sheriff’s officials wrote in a news release.

I've been thinking the same thing, Ted. If a rocket I'd built and launched had been involved in such a grave accident... I'm not sure how a person could handle that.
 
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