Recovery Stupidity at Argonia

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Is there a feud going on between these two or is this a joke?

In any event this is a good example of getting both sides of the story before making judgement.
 
This is no joke, it's not funny. The rocket pasture has been one of the premiere (I'd say top 3) launch sites in the country for ~25 years...that's impressive. One needs to tread lightly; the farmers and their livelihood owe us rocketry folk nothing! We are there by their good graces; piss them off and you might just lose one of the best rocketry sites anywhere....not funny in the least.

Having been a Prefect and having lost a site or two (didn't do anything wrong, merely different faces in charge of the public land), it is very much within the rights of those that spend much of their blood, sweat, and tears year in and year out, to be a bit "sensitive" about the treatment of said property.

Treat it like the sacred treasure that it is, and we'll be able to enjoy it for a while if we're lucky enough to do so. Fail to do so, and lose the treasure!

-Eric-
 
Your being a bit of a drama queen don't you think Lance? As every story has two sides, I'll share mine as I assume you are talking about me. The field I drove out on was the second field to the North over the hill and I took the roads to get there. The only "crop" on that field was hard packed dirt and weeds, absolutely nothing was planted in that field and I barely left a tire mark. I would never think of driving over someones crops! I told that to the gentleman that came out on the 4x4 and talked to me, he seemed to understand that and we talked for several minutes. I apologized and he later came up to me and asked if I ever found my rocket. I didn't seem to feel any of this "outrage" you have from anyone else. I talked to several people out there including the LCO Terry, who just told me it probably wasn't a good idea, I agreed. Again, I apologized and everything seemed fine. So don't get on here and start name calling and exaggerating everything like I was out there doing donuts in someones freshly planted wheat field.


Being part of another club that has lost a launch site for a much lesser infraction, I don't think Lance is being a drama queen at all. Go re-read his post, especially this part "If you attend a rocket launch anywhere, don't drive a vehicle in a field unless you get explicit permission from a club official. Ever." What you likely don't know is that there have already been issues with that particular landowner and it is a fragile relationship at best. You are right, every story has two sides. However from where I am sitting, your side is meaningless given what is at stake here. Coming on here and being combative about it is only digging your hole deeper. The only reason you didn't feel more outrage is that Lance and others are nice guys and they were giving you the benefit of the doubt. Believe me, there were quite a few of us cursing your name. In hindsight, all of us who felt that way should have given you an earful; maybe then you would have understood.
 
Eric is right, and Lance is no drama queen as another poster alluded to.

Launch sites in general are the greatest limit to our hobby. How many local clubs have lost their sites due to various things. Folks need to realize that the availability of launch sites is likely the single greatest threat to our hobby. If you like flying rockets you need to be paying attention to this.
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Almost all undeveloped land is covered in trees. To find a wide, long, flat piece of ground that is not overgrown and/or tree-covered means you are either in the desert or on a private farm. Those of us east of the Rockies do not have the former option.

Rocketry is one of the few hobbies that requires someone else's property! Athletes have sports complexes. Dancers have dance halls. Sculptors have studios, and quilt-makers have living rooms. In rocketry, no field = no hobby!

Anyone who does anything to jeopardize the field is plainly and simply a fool! What if you find your rocket, only to discover that your actions have cost your club its field? Where are you going to launch your rocket now?

As is often said over the loudspeakers at launches ... if you aren't willing to lose it, don't launch it!
 
There is more to this story. Something does not add up.

A group of guys see someone driving in a field
They send on to give him the "what for"
It is reported here to get anyone interested on their side.

Meanwhile, we are told that all the fields are planted with winter wheat.

Then, the driver of the truck in the field responds to the accusations.
The "what for" guy drove out there in a truck as well and had a nice conversation about stuff.
Now we have two trucks driving on a field of winter wheat.
But wait, their is no crop planted there.
They return to the site and he talks to the LCO and everything seems to be ok.

The reason I say that there is something else going on is because put the events in order.
The guy drove in a hard packed field looking for a rocket
Someone drove in the same field to tell him that he should not be driving in the fields
He returns to the site and apologizes and was told that it was not a good idea and everything seems fine.
This is where it should have ended.

I don't think this is a thread about how if someone goes driving across fields might cause them to lose their site. They are not trying to educate anyone. They are attacking one individual who they apparently know who it was the entire time or at least who it was when he returned.

If you guys are having a little spat, take it outside.
 
Launch sites can come and go at the stroke of a pen. Conduct yourself accordingly and respect the landowner's property. Stick to the main roadways, and do not drive your vehicle on private property, regardless if there are crops present or not! This is common courtesy/sense folks, not difficult...
 
All I have to say is this:

If rocket landed on a golf course, would you even THINK about driving on it to recover?


That field is Mr Farmers Golf course....even if you don't see it that way.

And there in lies the rub. Any one thinking....."oh it's just dirt" forgets the BIG ONE.

It AIN"T your dirt and you did not ASK permission to be there. An assumption was made that could impact dozens of other individuals in a negative way.

I have done some stupid stuff too...we all have. It goes down much better to just admit, not defend it, & ask forgiveness, then promise to never do it again. Period.

There are 3 sides to every story. [not 2] Yours.....their's......and what really happens.

It is not my place to judge.
 
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You just can't fix stupid.

Don't go name calling there I know Jeff and he's a stand up guy. I know I'll catch some heat for sticking up for him but that's to be expected from this forum lately.
 
There is more to this story. Something does not add up.

A group of guys see someone driving in a field
They send on to give him the "what for"
It is reported here to get anyone interested on their side.

Meanwhile, we are told that all the fields are planted with winter wheat.

Then, the driver of the truck in the field responds to the accusations.
The "what for" guy drove out there in a truck as well and had a nice conversation about stuff.
Now we have two trucks driving on a field of winter wheat.
But wait, their is no crop planted there.
They return to the site and he talks to the LCO and everything seems to be ok.

The reason I say that there is something else going on is because put the events in order.
The guy drove in a hard packed field looking for a rocket
Someone drove in the same field to tell him that he should not be driving in the fields
He returns to the site and apologizes and was told that it was not a good idea and everything seems fine.
This is where it should have ended.

I don't think this is a thread about how if someone goes driving across fields might cause them to lose their site. They are not trying to educate anyone. They are attacking one individual who they apparently know who it was the entire time or at least who it was when he returned.

If you guys are having a little spat, take it outside.


I believe the whole point of the original post was to remind everyone that it is NEVER ok to drive into a field around the Rocket Pasture unless given permission. That and vent a bit in the process. I personally don't see anything wrong with that whatsoever. This is the Watering Hole, after all. I'll leave you with a couple facts from someone who was there to help you "add it up": Lance actually did not know who the person was until now. Just because the perception of the person in question was that 'everything is fine' does not make it so. The club official rode out on an ATV, not a truck.
 
Props to PokerJones for standing up and admitting it was him given the nasty tone the thread was taking.
To the mods this thread really no longer serves a purpose other than causing inflammation of what appears a disagreement between two individuals similar to another thread recently.
 
It does show that you need to hear both sides of a story. On our field, we aren't allowed to drive out even off season. Even the one beeline to the away cell is controlled.
 
He gets a pass for the negligent, blatant disregard and destruction of private property because he's a "stand up guy". Ok dude.
 
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The moderator informants have spoken. Despite their freedom to disregard and ignore media at will "Tone" has stricken the sensitive emotional chords of forum members and once again a demand for censorship of content and speech must now be executed. I love me some good old fashioned Fascism.
 
The moderator informants have spoken. Despite their freedom to disregard and ignore media at will "Tone" has stricken the sensitive emotional chords of forum members and once again a demand for censorship of content and speech must now be executed. I love me some good old fashioned Fascism.

I'm not asking the thread be deleted just locked. You can still read the thread but closing it to further comments that bring nothing new to the discussion is merited IMO.
 
All I have to say is this:

If rocket landed on a golf course, would you even THINK about driving on it to recover?


That field is Mr Farmers Golf course....even if you don't see it that way.

And there in lies the rub. Any one thinking....."oh it's just dirt" forgets the BIG ONE.

It AIN"T your dirt and you did not ASK permission to be there. An assumption was made that could impact dozens of other individuals in a negative way.

I have done some stupid stuff too...we all have. It goes down much better to just admit, not defend it, & ask forgiveness, then promise to never do it again. Period.

There are 3 sides to every story. [not 2] Yours.....their's......and what really happens.

It is not my place to judge.

+1 what is so hard to understand? It is not your property! If the owner has not given his permission to drive on it stay off! Would you want me to show up and just decide to drive around in your yard?

Dennis
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Almost all undeveloped land is covered in trees. To find a wide, long, flat piece of ground that is not overgrown and/or tree-covered means you are either in the desert or on a private farm. Those of us east of the Rockies do not have the former option.

Rocketry is one of the few hobbies that requires someone else's property! Athletes have sports complexes. Dancers have dance halls. Sculptors have studios, and quilt-makers have living rooms. In rocketry, no field = no hobby!

Anyone who does anything to jeopardize the field is plainly and simply a fool! What if you find your rocket, only to discover that your actions have cost your club its field? Where are you going to launch your rocket now?

As is often said over the loudspeakers at launches ... if you aren't willing to lose it, don't launch it!

Stupidity is not limited to Kansas.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...las-Area-Rocket-Society&p=1513859#post1513859

Post number 310
 
I believe the whole point of the original post was to remind everyone that it is NEVER ok to drive into a field around the Rocket Pasture unless given permission. That and vent a bit in the process. I personally don't see anything wrong with that whatsoever. This is the Watering Hole, after all. I'll leave you with a couple facts from someone who was there to help you "add it up": Lance actually did not know who the person was until now. Just because the perception of the person in question was that 'everything is fine' does not make it so. The club official rode out on an ATV, not a truck.

Maybe but, anytime a thread is started by calling someone stupid and the stupidity of their actions does not direct one to think it is about losing rights to a field. It would seem that the club should inform their members about going off road and where it is permitted.

To me the term 4x4 is a truck. In any event, it is 4 wheels going across the field.

I don't think that Lance is showing very much class in reporting the events that took place. Instead of name calling, it would have been easy enough to share the story and review their procedures in how to prevent this from happening again without calling someone names. You cannot presume that everyone knows the so called "common knowledge" of an area. It is the responsibility of the club to make sure everyone is aware of areas to travel by vehicle or foot.
 
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