Wildman mini/Madcow mini landing speed

I just completed painting a new Wildman mini Darkstar and I want to fly it next week sometime. This is my first fiberglass rocket.

It's advertised as a 15" parachute, but came with a 12".

The similar Madcow minis, although dual deploy, recommend a 10"/18" parachute, and can be flown single deploy without the top section, making them very similar in weight and configuration.

Sims show a landing speed MUCH higher than I'm used to with cardboard and ply (12-15fps), like 35fps with the 12/15" chutes!

Yikes! :y:

I'm mostly landing on grass or crop field (sometimes crop stubble, sometimes plowed), and occasionally on concrete runway or roads.

If 12-15fps is the recommended standard for cardboard and ply, what is the recommended standard for fiberglass?

TIA

Hi TIA
You will be fine with either the 15" or a 18" chute. MC uses a 18" chute for there mini's
Have Fun

I have same rocket & fly it with a 6x 60 streamer.......comes in really fast, but i fly on dirt and grass also. [ mine weighs 1lb empty]If flying anything larger than a "g" and using 12in chute, with any wind.....you will be in for a walk!

Heck with the streamer and large H's I've landed a mile from pads. It's glass and if you built it correctly from the instructions it will be fine with a 9 in chute or streamer.
If flying on harder surfaces stick with 12 or 15 in chute.

All this depends on where and what size motors you intend to use.
Fiberglass can handle much more strenuous landings than paper & wood.

I've flown my Wildman Mini Eagle Claw and my Painkiller Micro with what looks like a 15" that came with the EC. I'd call the speed "fast yet sufficient"

Reference the national organization safety codes applicable to your launches, and the safety codes of your club. I don't think it's prudent to recommend that someone bring a rocket in that hard.

Banzai88 said:

I just completed painting a new Wildman mini Darkstar and I want to fly it next week sometime. This is my first fiberglass rocket.

It's advertised as a 15" parachute, but came with a 12".

The similar Madcow minis, although dual deploy, recommend a 10"/18" parachute, and can be flown single deploy without the top section, making them very similar in weight and configuration.

Sims show a landing speed MUCH higher than I'm used to with cardboard and ply (12-15fps), like 35fps with the 12/15" chutes!

Yikes! :y:

I'm mostly landing on grass or crop field (sometimes crop stubble, sometimes plowed), and occasionally on concrete runway or roads.

If 12-15fps is the recommended standard for cardboard and ply, what is the recommended standard for fiberglass?

TIA

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Tom Please shot me an e-mail with your particulars and we will be happy to send you the 15" chute .
Sorry about the mistake
Tim

WILDMANRS said:

Tom Please shot me an e-mail with your particulars and we will be happy to send you the 15" chute .
Sorry about the mistake
Tim

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the 15" is perfect..... That's a Recon Recovery nomex in my photo too (LDRS sample) I could fly that combo all day.

We flew my daughter's Wildchild yesterday, twice, with the parachute that came with it on motor deploy (I can measure if you would like). Yes, it does look a bit small. In fact, on the first flight, everyone assumed she had deployed a parawad, when in fact it was the fully inflated but relatively small chute. It came down just fine, with minimal scratches on the fins. First flight was an F50-6, second was a G64-7. I am guessing that your Wildman mini will do just fine, based on our experience. We fly in a high-plains kind of area - sage, scrub, grass, occasional cactus, and hard dirt. Few rocks, no pavement, but the ground isn't soft.

I actually had my darkstar jr fail to deploy, and come down in a flat spin from ~1300 ft at NARAM this past summer, and the only damage was cosmetic, plus 1/4" of coupler and one bulkhead. None of the fins moved, none of the tubes cracked. A well-build fiberglass kit, while not indestructible, is very durable.

That's my experience. I will second Dan's suggestion above, and suggest that you find a descent rate that you are comfortable with. You will get a sense of how comfortable you are with various descent rates, and what is appropriate for your landing surface and flying conditions (wind).

If you think a bigger chute is appropriate, there are plenty of vendors for bigger chutes.

And, for example, Topflite recommends 17-22 fps. The numbers I recall are ~20 fps as a guideline, although I can't cite a reference for that.

patelldp said:

Reference the national organization safety codes applicable to your launches, and the safety codes of your club. I don't think it's prudent to recommend that someone bring a rocket in that hard.

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I just looked this up:

https://www.nar.org/safety-information/model-rocket-safety-code/

"10. Recovery System. I will use a recovery system such as a streamer or parachute in my rocket so that it returns safely and undamaged and can be flown again, and I will use only flame-resistant or fireproof recovery system wadding in my rocket."

https://www.nar.org/safety-information/high-power-rocket-safety-code/

"12. Recovery System. I will use a recovery system such as a parachute in my rocket so that all parts of my rocket return safely and undamaged and can be flown again, and I will use only flame-resistant or fireproof recovery system wadding in my rocket."
"13. Recovery Safety. I will not attempt to recover my rocket from power lines, tall trees, or other dangerous places, fly it under conditions where it is likely to recover in spectator areas or outside the launch site, nor attempt to catch it as it approaches the ground."


Unless this is not the correct code, neither model rocketry or high power rocketry safety codes appear to support your assumption that a NAR member cannot come in "hard", so long as it lands undamaged.

I believe the debate comes in with the word "safely" Unfortunately that's left to interpretation. How hard is too hard? I'd argue that FG rockets are capable of surviving a harder landing than I'd consider "safe".

But is safe simply slow enough that it could reasonably be dodged, or that it would be safe to get hit by it?

I don't think we'll ever agree on a set rule for anything, as too many variables come into play. Having spent most of LDRS in a fairly hard landing zone taking photos, I don't think any speed is comfortable lol. Slower is better, but even a slow 20 pound rocket is going to mess you up, and they come in silent when you're out there.

I personally shoot for 15-20 FPS...it's a good number... burning in on a streamer is a bit quick for me, personally.

mpitfield said:

"10. Recovery System. I will use a recovery system such as a streamer or parachute in my rocket so that it returns safely and undamaged and can be flown again..."

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Thanks for the correction. I forgot that the safety code prioritizes rocket safety over people or property safety.

I asked to recover at 45-50 fps at URRG and was denied, and for good reason. I kinda regret even asking. But based on the safety code, bring 'em in hard, boys!

patelldp said:

Thanks for the correction. I forgot that the safety code prioritizes rocket safety over people or property safety.

I asked to recover at 45-50 fps at URRG and was denied, and for good reason. I kinda regret even asking. But based on the safety code, bring 'em in hard, boys!

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lol Dan, remind me to keep my head up when your launching. I agree with Dave in that the wording seems a bit subjective but I can see that it has to be discretionary as there are too many variables.

mpitfield said:

lol Dan, remind me to keep my head up when your launching. I agree with Dave in that the wording seems a bit subjective but I can see that it has to be discretionary as there are too many variables.

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No need to keep your head up, I'm responsible and consult people before attempting questionable things. I have mothballed the project in question due to the fact it'd be reckless and ill-advised to bring it down that fast.

My darkstar mini comes down at 35 ft/sec with a GPS tracker and a 3 grain motor on a 15" chute. no damage after lots of flights. I make sure it's got a safe angle on the launch rail though. I error towards long walk rather than risk landing anywhere near people or cars at 35ft/sec. I've recently got it setup for DD so high flights touch down slower now.

Won't win any craftsman awards (especially since a run formed in the paint, Grrrr), but OR says it'll fly!

Purple Stickershock vinyl pending!

Do like I do put decal on nice side and keep bad side down on the table stand. That way only you will know.

This is one of the few with good recovery speeds, that nearly got me. It's crazy how quiet they can be. Of course when you're out there, you have to stay alert, and it's best to not be alone.


Which brings up this guy..... came in broken in half, or separated I forget. It came down quick, I'd guess 50 fps or so by eyeball.... but the point is that everyone was clearly able to track it and get out of it's way. The truck.... not so much.

a quick study in reaction time though....

DizWolf said:

This is one of the few with good recovery speeds, that nearly got me. It's crazy how quiet they can be. Of course when you're out there, you have to stay alert, and it's best to not be alone.

Which brings up this guy..... came in broken in half, or separated I forget. It came down quick, I'd guess 50 fps or so by eyeball.... but the point is that everyone was clearly able to track it and get out of it's way. The truck.... not so much.

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That Iris looks like its seen better days, looks like it has a few burns. I was standing pretty close to that Talon 3 when it came in, that sunroof made a good pop sound. I was also pretty close to the bigger booster that detached from the recovery harness and came in hot, just missing Robert in the AMW compound.

DizWolf said:

a quick study in reaction time though....

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:wink:

I love the guy on pad #2. He's oblivious to the whole thing!

Buckeye said:

:wink:

I love the guy on pad #2. He's oblivious to the whole thing!

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LMAO.

mpitfield said:

That Iris looks like its seen better days, looks like it has a few burns. I was standing pretty close to that Talon 3 when it came in, that sunroof made a good pop sound. I was also pretty close to the bigger booster that detached from the recovery harness and came in hot, just missing Robert in the AMW compound.

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this guy? herm...remind me not to recover around you...

Um... Rockets are flying while people are setting up? Kind of defeats any attempt to get people to pay attention to the stuff falling out of the sky.

"I was standing pretty close to that Talon 3 when it came in, that sunroof made a good pop sound"
Red rocket, red truck, red-haired lady. A bad combination.

DizWolf said:

this guy? herm...remind me not to recover around you...

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Yeah that's the one. I was just coming from the food tent and saw it coming in...it made a good deep thump when it hit. Ironically I was talking to Robert about 30 min before and asked him if anything ever hit his compound with all the launches he attends. This thing landed literally 20ish feet from one of his pop up canopies.

Igotnothing said:

Um... Rockets are flying while people are setting up? Kind of defeats any attempt to get people to pay attention to the stuff falling out of the sky.

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LDRS 34. 5 total banks of pads. Setup with distances allowing at least 3 pads to be loading at all times. With 285 fliers, it's a must.

The fat boy was launched from the right cell pads, those are the M pads somewhere around 1500 feet away.

SWEET! Nice work!

RKeller said:

SWEET! Nice work!

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Thanks. Not my best work, but my first fiberglass. I was going to foam it, but chickened out and hit it with Rocket poxy instead. My first time doing liquid epoxy fillets, too. Didn't turn out too bad, but I needed to pull tape a little sooner. Would be perfect, but a momentary lapse of reason in the paint booth resulted in a small run.

Oh well, can't see it from the pads!