Another Rocket Forum In The Works??

I see that there is talk about starting a new forum because of the drama that has started here because of the ban of Tim & Scott. Some folks seem to want to move over to the new forum Rocketry Center but, they have their issues as well as referenced by this thread.

People love to complain and the grass is always greener on the other side but, adding another forum does not seem to solve any problems. It will only continue to divide the forum community. It seems that the root cause of the problem has yet to be clearly defined as to why some people are unhappy since the new owner took over. Is it really just banner ads and some vendor bugs?

I would suggest that rather than putting a bunch of energy into creating another forum is to organize your issues and create a set of possible solutions to the problems. Then present that to the owner of this forum. Work with him rather than against.

We are the ones that generate content for this (or any other) forum. Add another forum and then there will be four with repeated content. All it will do is make it harder for everyone to get and hold on to new members. Everyone picks teams but there is no competition. There is already a group on YORF mocking TRF about this stuff. Is this the path that everyone wants to follow? Put your efforts into making the existing better and some of the people that have left would most likely return.

I have my complaints about TRF from the past. I have called them the Care Bear forum because of over moderation. I don't like that they restrict access to the research topics.

BTW, I think it is pretty cheeky to start planning another forum on the forum you are complaining about. I think it is okay to start the idea, but after that, take it offline.

Thank you for your time and I hope that we correct the problems here by communicating with the owner and getting this forum back to a fun and educational place to visit.

I have said it before, a new forum doesn't fix the bulk of the issues providing the same people participate in the said. Same jerks, same jerk responses. The only thing I see it does is give an opportunity for new people to gain a little power in the form of the moderation hat. The solution is to lessen the nanny state and assume people participating here have skin thick enough not to go crying to the Mods every time they are offended. So to some of the participants here, stop being jerks. To others, stop being weenies. And to all, don't feel you have to be the one correcting the worlds issues and just fly rockets.

well said. I agree.

Tim and Scott got a one week time-out because they refused to end their attacks, which are against the forum rules.

Pretty much any "civilized" hobby discussion forum would do the same thing.

Do people REALLY want a new forum that is anything goes - personal attacks, political bull-stuff? Maybe a handul. But most don't care for the drama..... a rocketry forum is supposed be about... ROCKETS.

- George Gassaway

mkadams001 said:

I see that there is talk about starting a new forum because of the drama that has started here because of the ban of Tim & Scott. Some folks seem to want to move over to the new forum Rocketry Center but, they have their issues as well as referenced by this thread.

People love to complain and the grass is always greener on the other side but, adding another forum does not seem to solve any problems. It will only continue to divide the forum community. It seems that the root cause of the problem has yet to be clearly defined as to why some people are unhappy since the new owner took over. Is it really just banner ads and some vendor bugs?

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I argue that a fundamental shift in the very nature of a forum CAN solve problems. If someone were to hand you the reins to a forum that looks nice, functions well, has no advertisement, is completely free to use, and gives you the freedom to say what's on your mind (aside from excessive profanity or vulgar images, etc.) would you embrace it?

mkadams001 said:

I would suggest that rather than putting a bunch of energy into creating another forum is to organize your issues and create a set of possible solutions to the problems. Then present that to the owner of this forum. Work with him rather than against.

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It's less effort than you think if you know the right people.

mkadams001 said:

We are the ones that generate content for this (or any other) forum. Add another forum and then there will be four with repeated content. All it will do is make it harder for everyone to get and hold on to new members. Everyone picks teams but there is no competition. There is already a group on YORF mocking TRF about this stuff. Is this the path that everyone wants to follow? Put your efforts into making the existing better and some of the people that have left would most likely return.

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Again, it's a societal thought that drives this mocking behavior. There's a fundamental understanding of what TRF is about, and it's certainly not the grassroots effort that you speak of. There's people that are running this thing purely for profit. That's perfectly okay, but if you were handed a forum that wasn't run for profit, would you embrace it?

mkadams001 said:

I have my complaints about TRF from the past. I have called them the Care Bear forum because of over moderation. I don't like that they restrict access to the research topics.

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Noted.

mkadams001 said:

BTW, I think it is pretty cheeky to start planning another forum on the forum you are complaining about. I think it is okay to start the idea, but after that, take it offline.

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Maybe it was, and that's why you stopped hearing about it?

mkadams001 said:

Thank you for your time and I hope that we correct the problems here by communicating with the owner and getting this forum back to a fun and educational place to visit.

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Good intentioned competition is a good thing.

Here's the thing- You assume we can only have one functional forum, and that everyone on it must get along.

Both these assumptions are false. I'd be ok with a free for all forum, that some people would refuse to go to.

It doesn't have to be for everyone.

georgegassaway said:

Tim and Scott got a one week time-out because they refused to end their attacks, which are against the forum rules.

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Has doing this eliminated the conversation about what happened? All that resulted was that they were sent away for a bit and tons of discussion popped up about what happened. The resulting "solution" was that everyone was talking about the same topic without the involved parties being able to provide their side of it.

georgegassaway said:

Pretty much any "civilized" hobby discussion forum would do the same thing.

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Your quotation marks solidify the notion that "civilized" is open to interpretation. Maybe a medium that allows public conversation about the issues at hand and fosters their desires to air out concerns should be embraced? Maybe a (gasp) solution would have been reached? I think that they will very quickly realize that acting like dopes hurts their business.

georgegassaway said:

Do people REALLY want a new forum that is anything goes - personal attacks, political bull-stuff? Maybe a handul. But most don't care for the drama..... a rocketry forum is supposed be about... ROCKETS.

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People LOVE drama. For crying out loud, look at the Scott/Tim thread in the Watering Hole. It's good TV. My wife watches soap operas along with millions of other women (and men) that LOVE that stuff. Turmoil will never overrun a hobby forum, but it certainly has a spot.

patelldp said:

Turmoil will never overrun a hobby forum, but it certainly has a spot.

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Maybe so. However, I fear that if the owner of TRF gets too tired of dealing with people who are complaining about one thing or the other (whether deservedly or not), they may decide that it's too much of a hassle and opt to pull the plug on the forum.

Then where will we all be?

Personally, I'd hate to think that all the information that I've shared here, and all that I've yet to learn from would disappear into the ether.

K'Tesh said:

Maybe so. However, I fear that if the owner of TRF gets too tired of dealing with people who are complaining about one thing or the other (whether deservedly or not), they may decide that it's too much of a hassle and opt to pull the plug on the forum.

Then where will we all be?

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A different forum. I don't believe for a second that TRF will pull the plug over the INCREDIBLY minuscule amount of turmoil that we've seen here. Ever been on a car forum? MOPAR SUCKS...CHEVY IS TERRIBLE.

K'Tesh said:

Maybe so. However, I fear that if the owner of TRF gets too tired of dealing with people who are complaining about one thing or the other (whether deservedly or not), they may decide that it's too much of a hassle and opt to pull the plug on the forum.

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The frequency that he's here would lead me to believe this is not a problem.

patelldp said:

A different forum. I don't believe for a second that TRF will pull the plug over the INCREDIBLY minuscule amount of turmoil that we've seen here. Ever been on a car forum? MOPAR SUCKS...CHEVY IS TERRIBLE.

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Walk on a glock forum and post a photo of a .38 super and just watch the party start....

patelldp said:

I argue that a fundamental shift in the very nature of a forum CAN solve problems. If someone were to hand you the reins to a forum that looks nice, functions well, has no advertisement, is completely free to use, and gives you the freedom to say what's on your mind (aside from excessive profanity or vulgar images, etc.) would you embrace it?

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I agree that you can shift a forum away from its problems. I think that it can be done from within and working with the owner(s). I would embrace a forum that had quality content. It makes no difference to me if it is free or for profit.

patelldp said:

It's less effort than you think if you know the right people.

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Judging from one of the thread links I provided they seem to think it is a lot of work and should be taken very seriously if they decide to pursue this venture.

patelldp said:

Again, it's a societal thought that drives this mocking behavior. There's a fundamental understanding of what TRF is about, and it's certainly not the grassroots effort that you speak of. There's people that are running this thing purely for profit. That's perfectly okay, but if you were handed a forum that wasn't run for profit, would you embrace it?

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I have never seen what the fundamental understanding of what TRF is about. It would be nice if there were a mission statement that was easy to find or always visible in the header (at least a link). Again, I do not care if this forum or any other forum is for profit or free.

patelldp said:

Maybe it was, and that's why you stopped hearing about it?

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That's a good thing

patelldp said:

Good intentioned competition is a good thing.

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I agree. However, forums don't need to compete to get members. The generally should compliment each other. One forum may be more about scale and competition rocketry, while another might be more about sport rocketry. What I like about TRF is that it combines a bit of each type of rocketry. I think this is the where the most interest is for a lot of rocketeers while still leaving room for specialties.

Thank you for well presented argument.

georgegassaway said:

Tim and Scott got a one week time-out because they refused to end their attacks, which are against the forum rules.

Pretty much any "civilized" hobby discussion forum would do the same thing.

Do people REALLY want a new forum that is anything goes - personal attacks, political bull-stuff? Maybe a handul. But most don't care for the drama..... a rocketry forum is supposed be about... ROCKETS.

- George Gassaway

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Here ya go G-Man! https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?13110-Rules-and-Guidelines

There have been a few other forums announced here and I've joined a few (mainly for Ex) but for a variety of reasons (such as a funky logon procedures) they peter out. RP was great and I spent time
both there and here. Trying to produce something like that would be a pile of work to setup and maintain. Kurt Savegnago

I may start a website over Thanksgiving, but it will not be a forum. It will be a wiki or information exchange site.

cwbullet said:

I may start a website over Thanksgiving, but it will not be a forum. It will be a wiki or information exchange site.

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Good luck, Chuck. Seriously.

Ted

I am not in it to make money. I just want to contribute to the community that has given me so much.

cwbullet said:

I am not in it to make money. I just want to contribute to the community that has given me so much.

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Maybe there would be a way to resurrect and consolidate material from: Rocketry Planet, Rocketry Online, RocketMaterials.org (no longer there), maybe even some of VernK's and Vastass' stuff? (And I'm sure there are other old/defunct resources).

cwbullet said:

I may start a website over Thanksgiving, but it will not be a forum. It will be a wiki or information exchange site.

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A Rocketry Wiki site and How To Articles would be a great thing definitely. Worst thing about TRF, is Google is better at finding information on TRF than its own search engine.

rharshberger said:

A Rocketry Wiki site and How To Articles would be a great thing definitely. Worst thing about TRF, is Google is better at finding information on TRF than its own search engine.

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This is very true. Especially if you are in the mobile app, what a piece of work this is.

dixontj93060 said:

Maybe there would be a way to resurrect and consolidate material from: Rocketry Planet, Rocketry Online, RocketMaterials.org (no longer there), maybe even some of VernK's and Vastass' stuff? (And I'm sure there are other old/defunct resources).

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Jim Ball's stuff would be a good start, among others. Some good how to's on building HPR but not over building, for example how thick do the centering rings on a 98mm M-impulse MMT really need to be? How strong is Loc airframe and at what point should it be re-inforced?, etc. I mean I hate so say it but one of the most common resources people new to HPR use is Modern High Power Rocketry 2, and while I own and have read it, its out of date, still useful but we need that kind of current information and a good Wiki site could provide it (many thanks to Mark Canepa for his work to bring us MHPR2, it is a great resource).

TRF, YORF, Rocketry Center and now Rocketry Spot. Yes FOUR Rocketry Forums. What is going on on the East Coast? How I miss the good ole days when you would just get banned on TRF and went to YORF, now I guess there are two more safety nets for up to three bannings in one week.

I joined, as I have done with all the rocketry forums. However, too much is too much.

rharshberger said:

Modern High Power Rocketry 2, and while I own and have read it, its out of date, still useful...

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When I talked to Mark Canepa at BALLS 2014 he said he was working on an update. I ran into him again at BALLS 2015 but forgot to ask how that was proceeding.

The idea of having a centralized source of information on the web (like a wiki) has been discussed many many times before, but talk is cheap and no one has ever done it. Pretty much all of the content from RP is lost or encumbered. info-central, which was dated but useful, is still accessible on the Wayback Machine, for example https://web.archive.org/web/20081025212401/https://www.info-central.org/index.cgi?design

rharshberger said:

A Rocketry Wiki site and How To Articles would be a great thing definitely. Worst thing about TRF, is Google is better at finding information on TRF than its own search engine.

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Definitely. I actually use google instead of the TRF search engine.

It would be nice if there was only ONE forum with all of the pages from RP, YORF, and TRF.

rstaff3 said:

I joined, as I have done with all the rocketry forums. However, too much is too much.

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WOW! Four forums at once! I can't keep up. Sometimes I even accidentally end up on Google Plus thinking I need to drink some Milk Plus from the Karova Milk Bar in A Clockwork Orange.

Sounds like a lot of good ole high power arrogance is going on. I look up to the certified high power guys as knowing what they are doing, the real rocket scientists, the movers and shakers. But with all the silly and deleted posts in multiple threads it just blows my mind. Guess I need to look elsewhere for my role models, lets see, that leaves Micromax, Scale, Cardstock or Oddrocs.:confused2:

I suggest you pick one and stick with it. Get your friends to join your forum of choice. If it's here...that's great. If it's Rocketry Spot, I can tell you the search feature is robust, as is the picture uploading capability. Have fun, act as you wish to be treated, and you'll be capable of having some good conversation.

Look at it as less of a divisive move and more of an inclusive move. It's up to everyone interested to make it successful. I literally have nothing to gain from starting a forum...I have no alliances with vendors, individuals, or anything. Everyone is welcome and I'd expect to be called out if I treat anyone unfairly.

4 forums, and sometimes there's only 1 real option. Turn it all off.....and go fly a rocket.

The trouble is that with so many forums all over the place, people are going here and there and everyone is all over the place. I think that everyone should just stay on TRF or YORF, and not bother with the other new forums that are popping up all over the place. RC already has its own problems and it was only founded a few months ago! TRF has been here for 14 YEARS and is still going strong. Sure, there are problems from time to time, but that can be expected. I think that everyone should stay on TRF and not let politics get in the way of flying rockets.