Tracksoar open source APRS tracker kickstarter

jderimig said:

It has the Arduino bootloader on it and runs Arduino code. So yes its fairly easy to connect and use the Arduino IDE to program.

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Is there some sort of graphical representation or would it be a commandline thing? I couldn't tell from the site. Sorry for my ignorance as I haven't experience with Arduino outside of knowing it exists.
Seems it's on stuck on the national 144.390 frequency. I suspect if you want to have it update every 5 seconds there is a path statement that will indicate you don't want your position digipeated. I can't find
the parameters at the moment. Kurt

Seems to me if the purpose is to find your rocket, the logic ought to be to send an update based on the distance from the last update while taking the altitude into account. In other words, up in the sky updates aren't really important. As the rocket gets closer to the ground, update the location when the horizontal location has changed by, let's say 150 feet. When the altitude is less than 1000 feet, tighten it to every 50 feet, with perhaps a max update rate.

I'm just making those numbers up, they can be fiddled with. The idea is to only send more frequent updates when it matters, not just because you haven't sent one in a while.

I do, however, think the Ham license requirement is a non-starter for a consumer product. Alas. Those long bands are perfect for such a product.

ksaves2 said:

Is there some sort of graphical representation or would it be a commandline thing? I couldn't tell from the site. Sorry for my ignorance as I haven't experience with Arduino outside of knowing it exists.
Seems it's on stuck on the national 144.390 frequency. I suspect if you want to have it update every 5 seconds there is a path statement that will indicate you don't want your position digipeated. I can't find
the parameters at the moment. Kurt

Click to expand...

The Arduino IDE is a decent UI for development but you are programming in a C like environment. Since the code is not public yet I would hope that APRS parameters are set in config file which is well commented (like similar open source projects like this).

As far as getting off 144.390 you can order the international version (it comes sans transmitter) and buy a 144.800 transmitter and solder it on.

John Beans said:

Seems to me if the purpose is to find your rocket, the logic ought to be to send an update based on the distance from the last update while taking the altitude into account. In other words, up in the sky updates aren't really important. As the rocket gets closer to the ground, update the location when the horizontal location has changed by, let's say 150 feet. When the altitude is less than 1000 feet, tighten it to every 50 feet, with perhaps a max update rate.

I'm just making those numbers up, they can be fiddled with. The idea is to only send more frequent updates when it matters, not just because you haven't sent one in a while.

I do, however, think the Ham license requirement is a non-starter for a consumer product. Alas. Those long bands are perfect for such a product.

Click to expand...

Due to the size of the data packet, APRS decoding gets dicey faster than once every 5 seconds. The EggFinder/TRS is simply an NMEA word transmitter. To make the explanation simpler, the Eggfinder receiver is acting as if one has a USB GPS receiver plugged into the port. It therefore has the potential of 1/sec position updates "if" the GPS has a lock and under the speed limits "and" the packet is received and successfully decoded.

Now to give APRS its due. The BeelineGPS tracker and others can write positions to memory at a higher rate than transmitted via Rf/APRS so once recovered, that record can be downloaded and reviewed. Once every 5 seconds update is fine to recover.

I've done some testing on Xastir with the EggFinder and it's interesting to see the 1/sec data getting plotted in realtime. Haven't used a laptop in the downlink chain yet but that is to come.

The Ham tech license isn't that hard to achieve but John has it right, that's a sticking point for a lot of people. Kurt Savegnago

A friend was the ham on this project. https://makezine.com/projects/near-space-balloon-cam-with-arduino-and-aprs-radio/

All you have to do is to get close to the landing location, 1 km to 2 km, and you can then obtain the current landed location on you ARPS equipped handheld transceiver. An interesting anecdote not mentioned on this webpage was an error in the decoding of the ARPS info in a plug-in to the transceiver. The balloon team used a different GPS decoding algorithm in the transceiver than ARPS uses and when my friend drove to the spot the decoded GPS location said the package was located, he could not see it, nor could they hear the audible beeper in the instrument, yet the 2 meter signal was strong. It took several minutes on the cell pone for the team to figure out the error and they corrected the location reporting (it was about 1 km off) and when he drove to it, at 100 meters he could hear the beeper and when he got to the new location he look up and there it was up in a tree....

If you deploy a main at 2 kft with the standard 15 fps descent rate. You will get a GPS location within 1000' of the ground. If the wind is blowing 20 mph, the drift would be not more than 2000' and you should be able to directly receive the ARPS signal on a HT. A quad band Yaesu YVX-8DR APRS®/GPS/Bluetooth® Handheld Transceiver is an additional version of the VX-8R that includes new expanded APRS® capabilities to meet the needs of even the most active APRS® user and retails for $340. https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-010366

I see several problems with the kickstarter product for rocket use. It is designed for balloon flight so the GPS unit is mounted on the board but it should be mounted perpendicular to the main board for the best GPS reception when mounted in the NC. Also at $300 it is not really inexpensive either.

Bob

The Tracksoar is about $200 and $60 of that is the transmitter module.

The orientation of the GPS antenna in a nose cone during descent probably is indeterminate.

There has been a lot of options for APRS systems lately. For instance I am currently putting together a rocket GPS APRS system that costs less than $30. Baofeng radio from Amazon $25, audio 3.5mm connector, old android smart phone running APRSDroid. (if you have to buy the obsolete phone add another $25)......

bobkrech said:

A friend was the ham on this project. https://makezine.com/projects/near-space-balloon-cam-with-arduino-and-aprs-radio/

All you have to do is to get close to the landing location, 1 km to 2 km, and you can then obtain the current landed location on you ARPS equipped handheld transceiver. An interesting anecdote not mentioned on this webpage was an error in the decoding of the ARPS info in a plug-in to the transceiver. The balloon team used a different GPS decoding algorithm in the transceiver than ARPS uses and when my friend drove to the spot the decoded GPS location said the package was located, he could not see it, nor could they hear the audible beeper in the instrument, yet the 2 meter signal was strong. It took several minutes on the cell pone for the team to figure out the error and they corrected the location reporting (it was about 1 km off) and when he drove to it, at 100 meters he could hear the beeper and when he got to the new location he look up and there it was up in a tree....

If you deploy a main at 2 kft with the standard 15 fps descent rate. You will get a GPS location within 1000' of the ground. If the wind is blowing 20 mph, the drift would be not more than 2000' and you should be able to directly receive the ARPS signal on a HT. A quad band Yaesu YVX-8DR APRS®/GPS/Bluetooth® Handheld Transceiver is an additional version of the VX-8R that includes new expanded APRS® capabilities to meet the needs of even the most active APRS® user and retails for $340. https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-010366

I see several problems with the kickstarter product for rocket use. It is designed for balloon flight so the GPS unit is mounted on the board but it should be mounted perpendicular to the main board for the best GPS reception when mounted in the NC. Also at $300 it is not really inexpensive either.

Bob

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Bob,

Poor choice.

I would not recommend a VX-8DR. It's a deadend product. The APRS Terminal Node Controller is locked into the device and inaccessible. The VX-8GR (out of production) had a serial out jack one could plug into a handheld GPS and actually get a
map in realtime. A better solution is any Garmin mapping GPS that has the round serial port, (used 60Cs and 60CsX devices abound out there) and a D72A. I've been told the FT1DR has a serial out jack but I don't have that confirmed.
I don't recommend used D7A's as I have two A(g) models the oscillators went out of spec and are no longer on frequency. Cost too much to fix and they are pushing 20 year old technology.

You would have to buy an 8DR, the pimple of the the GPS that mounts on the rig AND pay for programming software. The D72A you can plug into a handheld mapping GPS, lock your rocket in on the pad and have it automatically tracked in realtime
during the flight. I've seen too many people screw up manually inputting lat/long into a handheld GPS and go on a wild goose chase. The 8DR the ONLY thing you can do, is look at the little arrow and the range. Hope you're adept at inputting the last received packet manually into your handheld GPS or phone. Screw that.

With the 72, as soon as you get close enough for a new packet, bam, final position. If you want to use the D72A at a base station with a laptop logging program, UI-View, Xastir, YAAC or APRSIS32, just plug in the miniusb port into the laptop and select the 72 for packet mode. Viola' stationary recording tracking device!

Oh, if one buys a used 60Cs or CsX and they have a high bandwidth internet access, they can download a usable free mapset here: https://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

The OSM maps are good but the dataset for looking up businesses, hotels, gas stations, etc. are sorely lacking and can't be counted on. The maps are pretty good and are more than enough to put into a used mapping GPS.

Soooooo. I courteously disagree with your choice Bob. Actually if one wants to save a bit on money use a Mobilinkd TNC https://www.mobilinkd.com/ with any Ham H/T and APRSDroid. APRSDroid has a limitation that you have to "transmit" your position packet to get
your position to move in respect to your rocket when you go out to recover. But it's cheaper and it will work. Kurt Savegnago

If one wants a Ham H/T to economically track, the FT1DR is onsale at HRO for $250.00: https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-013226
$200.00 cheaper than a D72. If one can live with the limitations it can do the job. Keith shows how to track graphically in this thread: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?124772-Yaseu-FT1DR-and-BigRedBee-GPS-work-together!
Scroll down. I diss the 8R and DR. The VX-8GR if you can find one can connect directly to Garmin mapping GPS units that have the round serial port for direct waypoint mapping without the cable work Keith shows. One could connect it to
a laptop for display on a map but it's hard to drag a laptop out with you to do the recovery. Perhaps some of the newer tablets would be a better and workable solution. Problem with a cable that has a multiplicity of adapters connected is if
you jostle it, could lose the link. Believe me, I've done that. Kurt

Still expensive tracking solution.

What's wrong with UV-3R ($29 amazon prime), mobilknd (~$65) and existing APRSDroid + Phone ($5) ?

or substitute cable for mobilknd TNC and bring the ground end cost below $40.

jderimig said:

Still expensive tracking solution.

What's wrong with UV-3R ($29 amazon prime), mobilknd (~$65) and existing APRSDroid + Phone ($5) ?

or substitute cable for mobilknd TNC and bring the ground end cost below $40.

Click to expand...

That's workable John. Problem is with a low end UV3R, if you are going to want to count on it for Rf tracking too you can't count on the signal strength meter. It's either all on or off. If you have good ears you can get away with the Yagi and an attenuator. Yeah granted, you don't need the meter for APRS/GPS tracking. Problem with APRSDroid (unless it's been fixed) is in order to see your tracking station on the map, you have to transmit a packet. I've been trying to contact
the developer or anyone for that matter to see if the device can be set to show one's position in realtime without having to transmit a packet to get it to move on the map.

The technique is orient your map on the droid device and walk towards the rocket/waypoint. After you've gone a ways, pulldown the menu so you can send "your" position to see your icon move and hopefully see it jump "towards" the rocket waypoint.
Like I say, APRSDroid doesn't monitor your GPS stream until you send a "generate a position packet" command to your device. It's quirky but it'll get the job done. A plus, is there is a free OSM mapset available for APRSDroid so one doesn't need to have
internet access to be able to use a map. You have to use the APRSDroid version for offline maps and you can't have both versions of APRSDroid (the one for online maps) on the same device at the same time.

I have a small box that I cut out a hole for my thumb for one handed holding, painted the inside with flat black paint, left the flap at the top attached and stuff my Nexus 2013 wi-fi only in. Face the sun and the box protects the device from glare. I can hold it at an angle and get a clear view of the screen. There is room for an outboard battery pack and an EggFinder LCD unit so I can run
GPS Rocket Locator. If I ditch the EggFinder LCD, I can drop an H/T in along with a Mobilnkd unit and use APRSDroid. I've tested both. The problem with the Mobilnkd is you can't disturb the volume control once set as it controls the receive gain.
I will say I scratched a mark on my volume control and it's pretty reproducible. Use the H/T for something else? Just reset the volume control to what you've determined, plug in the Mobilnkd and it will likely run fine. It's not like
some of the software decoding for APRS for laptops where you jiggle the cable and the darned thing goes out of calibration and no longer decodes properly.

Problem with GPS Rocket Locator, no internet connection, no maps. The program will run and you will see two dots and a datum line to the last known packet. I wished I had maps at MWP 13 where I had to ford across three deep drainage ditches
I was unaware were there. In spite of the deluge the night before, there wasn't that much water in them though. It works fine "in the blind" and I easily found my little rocket 1.66 miles away. I experimented with a 900Mhz multi-element Yagi for ground recovery. It picked up the EggFinder TRS transmitter on the ground before I could see the rocket from farther out. Only use a duck antenna or a patch antenna for 900mhz for the flight. I think a Yagi might be too narrow on this band for in flight use but on the ground it can help. Plus on the 900Mhz band a Yagi is easy size to carry: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-STOCK-8...739942?hash=item41993c4c26:g:fgsAAOSwHnFVmedQ. Get one with the connector you need.

AltosDroid and Altus Metrum products are very nice and one can store offline maps very nicely. Of course a D72A or VX8GR gives automatic navigation when connected to a Garmin 60Cs or CsX. Lock the rocket in while
it's on the pad and it will keep track of it and constantly compute a tracking solution for you. You can page from the Heading Situation Indicator to the map at any time. Will tell you how long it will take you at your current speed to get to the last known position of the rocket. Does everything except pick up the rocket for you. Kurt Savegnago

ksaves2 said:

Small GPS receiving antenna might hobble it even in non-CF airframe. 2 meter band does better with a larger antenna. It is indeed small and I think smaller than the currently available, meant for rocketry APRS tracker the Altus Metrum Tele-GPS.
The Marshall Falcon tracker, https://marshallradio.com/north-american-falconry-products/gps-systems, is the smallest yet and has been flown on a rocket successfully.
The Tracksoar is supposed to be programmable. I wonder if they meant the frequency too. All of the above are on the ham band so might not have any utility for non-amateur radio folks. (Easy to test and get a license though.)

Kurt Savegnago

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Hello.

Hamradio callsign appears in the 26th second of the video.

Is the Marshall RT GPS transmitter compatible with the amateur radio APRS system and the position of the bird (or in this case - a rocket or stratospheric balloon) with the RT GPS transmitter can be seen on the aprs.fi map if the user has a hamradio license and callsign?
I'd like to hear a recording raw signal from an FM radio receiver - signals containing GPS coordinates from this transmitter


Best regards,
Robert

I suspect the Marshall RT GPS system just sends the NMEA words in a once a second fashion like Eggfinders and one must use "their" receiver to make it work. There may be an encoding algorithm going on here too. Otherwise, people would just buy their transmitters and use any APRS rig like a Kenwood D72 or D74 and interface to a mapping GPS. If one wants to use a Marshall system, they would have to buy the whole shebang me thinks.
I remember reading a blurb somewhere where the Marshall RT GPS system was used in a rocket successfully. Price is kinda steep but the quality looks superb. Heck they're meant to attached to hawks for falconry tracking so the mass has to be kept down so it minimizes any impediment for flying.
Also the range guarantees are always for "in-flight" situations and don't expect more than a mile when on the ground. Shoot I've seen like 250 foot footprint with a downed rocket that was in a corn furrow with a Beeline GPS that was on the 400Mhz/70cm band.
Kurt

Vaisala radiosondes also transmit frames with GPS data in their own protocol, and yet we amateurs managed to decode this protocol and create independent software for their tracking and decoding such as sondemonitor or rs41tracker.
Therefore, having a raw signal recording, we would be able to do the same for RT GPS and it would not be necessary to use an iPad, AeroVision app and PocketLink.
There is a site and base for global tracking of Vaisala radiosondes and other meteorological centers.
https://radiosondy.infoFurthermore, the Vaisala rs41 radiosonde has an STM32 processor - we managed to write our own software and by doing a flash - we reprogram it so that it broadcasts APRS and RTTY on the 70 cm ham radio band. Therefore. Unfortunately, the device is expensive, especially for Eastern European conditions, if only we would receive a raw signal from the Marshall RT GPS transmitter, which has already caught a GPS fix and broadcasts the coordinates (Preferably I / Q recording, but can also be ordinary audio recording in NFM modulation with RTL SDR), we are able to do the same.