New Estes PSII - Panavia

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Speaking of E16 and F15, are the AT economax motors, say G74 series, a resonable step up in thrust for about the same $ if extra Ns are needed? Regardless, I do like the F15s in the Prowler with a booster fitted...

If you want single-use alternatives to the F15, then the next step up are the EconoJet F20, F23, f27, and F42. They actually have about the same total impulse as the F15, around 50 Ns. But they have higher thrust, so you can fly faster, or you can fly a heavier rocket. I like flying the bigger PSII builder kits on these when I'm at my club's low power field where they have a 1,000 foot ceiling. The PSII E2X kits, like the Ascender, would probably go well over 1,000 feet on these.

Next up are Aerotech single-use F motors that have higher Ns --- F26 has just over 60 Ns, and F25 has just under 80, which makes it a big F.

Over 80 Ns, you are into G motor range. The Economax G74 is just barely a G, with about 83 Ns. It has way more thrust than the F25, but not a whole lot more total impulse. And then there are all the other Aerotech single use G motors that are in the middle of the G range G40, G77, G78, G79, G80, etc.

Lots of choices for different rockets, different fields, and different propellant types!
 
Ive used the F23 for several PSII flights. It makes for a slower liftoff, as expected. Ive flown my Sahara on that just fine, as well as my Cherokee-G, which is basically the Panavia with bigger fins. I'll have to think whether I've used that motor in the other PSII models, but that's still my favorite motor for my Der Mean Max...
 
Ive used the F23 for several PSII flights. It makes for a slower liftoff, as expected. Ive flown my Sahara on that just fine, as well as my Cherokee-G, which is basically the Panavia with bigger fins. I'll have to think whether I've used that motor in the other PSII models, but that's still my favorite motor for my Der Mean Max...

I've used the F23, and also the F20 and F27 in my Leviathan (now deceased) many times, and I've seen them used in the PSII builder kit models such as the Ventris, Argent, Partizon, and Nike Smoke. The Mega Der Red Max is too heavy and probably needs at least a G40. I like those EconoJet motors as an affordable option for PSII kits on a small field. Another great thing --- they ship without hazmat.
 
I've used the F23, and also the F20 and F27 in my Leviathan (now deceased) many times, and I've seen them used in the PSII builder kit models such as the Ventris, Argent, Partizon, and Nike Smoke. The Mega Der Red Max is too heavy and probably needs at least a G40. I like those EconoJet motors as an affordable option for PSII kits on a small field. Another great thing --- they ship without hazmat.

What kind of altitude did you get out of those motors and what delay was used? My Ventris is 17.3 ounces and it looks like a 4 sec is too short, while a 7 sec is way too long...
 
What kind of altitude did you get out of those motors and what delay was used? My Ventris is 17.3 ounces and it looks like a 4 sec is too short, while a 7 sec is way too long...

I always used a 4-second delay with my Leviathan, and it worked well. Sims for my Leviathan with its weight as built showed that 4 seconds was a good delay for the F20, F23 and F27. I'm going to say the altitudes were about 700 feet, with the F20 putting it up the highest. The Ventris is lighter and has less drag, so I'm not sure what to recommend on that one. I never flew the F42 because of the same problem you are describing --- 4 seconds is too short, and the next delay up is 8 seconds!
 
It's too bad some of these don't have a 6 second delay. That would be perfect in certain instances.
 
Anyone used an H-motor in the Panavia? I was thinking of building this kit with epoxy and trying for a level 1 cert. I'm BAR so HPR is new to me.

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Build it with Titebond or any other wood glue and it will be just as strong as epoxy and weigh less. TB is stronger than the wood and paper the Panavia is built from, for fillets use TB Quick & Thick, the only part needing epoxy is the plastic screw on motor retainer.
 
Anyone used an H-motor in the Panavia? I was thinking of building this kit with epoxy and trying for a level 1 cert. I'm BAR so HPR is new to me.

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It can definitely be flown on an H motor, and you could use it for an L1 cert, but it will go pretty high. You might have better luck getting the rocket back if you opt for something a bit bigger, like in the 4” diameter range.
 
Build it with Titebond or any other wood glue and it will be just as strong as epoxy and weigh less. TB is stronger than the wood and paper the Panavia is built from, for fillets use TB Quick & Thick, the only part needing epoxy is the plastic screw on motor retainer.
I must admit to other motives for using epoxy. I agree Titebond is perfect for the job. I have a Madcow Avlanche ordered and want to practice on an Estes first. I'm new to HPR, thank you for the support.

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It can definitely be flown on an H motor, and you could use it for an L1 cert, but it will go pretty high. You might have better luck getting the rocket back if you opt for something a bit bigger, like in the 4” diameter range.
Any estimate on height? Motor I'm looking at is Aero Tech's single use Dark Matter. I have not been able to get the Open Rocket app to work yet. I do have the advantage of living out west in wide open spaces. The club I joined uses an old Air Force auxiliary airfield that has been decommissioned for several decades now.

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Any estimate on height? Motor I'm looking at is Aero Tech's single use Dark Matter. I have not been able to get the Open Rocket app to work yet. I do have the advantage of living out west in wide open spaces. The club I joined uses an old Air Force auxiliary airfield that has been decommissioned for several decades now.

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Without knowing the rocket’s specs, I can’t say how high it will go, but I’m going to guess more than 2,000 feet, maybe 2,500.

You can can use this site to do basic estimates of altitude, and getting motor recommendations. https://www.thrustcurve.org/guidepage.jsp
 
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