New Estes PSII - Panavia

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Note, mine has fins that were upscaled from the Cherokee D (and about 7" at the root), whereas the others use the stock Argent fins.
Actually, mine has upscaled fins as well, not Argent fins. Mine too are close to 7" at the root. Also, I went with the original short version of the Cherokee-D.
 
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More to the point of Estes getting out of the builder market: I've seen the PSII Builder series on Estes BP motors. Not impressed.

That's too bad. I was thinking about sending my Sahara up on an Estes 29mm BP motor...

I don't think Banzai is intending to be negative...the whole internet lost tone thing...but I'd say not to let one individual's opinion (who has 3 posts on CATO motors on a new rocket announcement thread????) kill your ambition to try it.

I too love the PSII builders kits. Mine are all covered in Monokote/Ultracote, I fly them on the 29mm Estes BP motors, up to the 29/360 Aerotech motors (H268R, I200W). They're great, and an unbelievable deal at their current prices. On a calmish day, the long burning, majestic liftoffs provided by the 29mm BP motors are great; other days high thrusting AP gets the nod. Point is, they fly wonderfully on a wide variety of motors...if you were planning on flying an E16 or F15 in there, do it, you may just like it!:)

I'll admit I'm a little annoyed with the blanket "BP E motors are bad...have a bad rep...etc.". I fly a lot of rockets, I fly with a lot of people that fly a lot of rockets, the only black powder E motor that I've ever been "scared of" was the 24mm Estes E15; that motor took care of a couple of my birds at the time....though the Saturn V and Broadsword then got a 29mm motor mount instead! Don't believe everything you read on the internet:wink:.

Panavia looks sweet; will order one today, looking forward to it!!!

-Eric-
 
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A couple of personal thoughts about STUFF.

The one thing I've come to realize in reading forum posts is that everyone has their own opinions. I may disagree 100% with that opinion, which of course is simply my own opinion. To say the Estes 29mm E16 & F15 motors aren't impressive to watch fly in a Pro Series size model is in my opinion a false statement. There are MANY people out there that love to see a large model take off slowly, arc over and then to actually be able to see the chute eject and open up. There are others that like to use V-Max type motors where you see NOTHING of the flight since the rocket is there one second, gone the next and then the next time you see it is when the model is floating down. I prefer the slower type of flight. I also prefer models that don't go much higher then what I can see, while others like to fly just under the fields maximum flight waiver if you fly at a club. Again everyone has their opinions. I've learned over my time here as the sole designer of Estes rocket kits to ignore people who have very STRONG opinions to put it mildly. Product is produced for the masses, meaning it isn't produced for the few thousand people that view the forums and the much lesser of which actually post a message. If product was only produced for the forum type modelers, Estes would be out of business since there simply isn't enough of you to keep us in business. With that said, do I listen to what people would like Estes to bring back or make new, sure; I've been designing, building and flying model rockets for some 45 years now and most likely think rocket XYZ was super cool looking when I was growing up and think it would be cool to others as well if it was brought back as a kit.

As for, is the entire line of Pro Series builder kits going away, I can't personally answer that, since I'm not in charge of what is or isn't going to be discontinued and even then the person(s) in charge of this can change their mind. I would say however that if you like what you see, buy it now even if your only intention is to us the kits for parts.

In a perfect world everyone ones opinion would be ignored and they would simply listen to what I say. (Jedi Mind Trick) You don't need to eat and pay your mortgage, you need to buy more Estes Rocket Stuff! :wink:

John Boren
 
More to the point of Estes getting out of the builder market: I've seen the PSII Builder series on Estes BP motors. Not impressed.

That's too bad. I was thinking about sending my Sahara up on an Estes 29mm BP motor...


Try it, you might like it. Sim it first, so you know what to expect.

If everyone liked the same things, the lines would be long and life would be boring.

......... I would say however that if you like what you see, buy it now even if your only intention is to us the kits for parts.

That alone speaks volumes!
 
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Golly, when I saw Panavia I thought something like this:

Panavia Roundel Picture

Panavia Tornado Picture

Will insert when the site is working again.

Thanks Daddy, another half hour of my life spent staring at pictures of jets on the Internet. :) When I should be working. :p
 
In a perfect world everyone ones opinion would be ignored and they would simply listen to what I say. (Jedi Mind Trick) You don't need to eat and pay your mortgage, you need to buy more Estes Rocket Stuff! :wink:

Design Master John has spoken........ :D
 
A couple of personal thoughts about STUFF.

The one thing I've come to realize in reading forum posts is that everyone has their own opinions. I may disagree 100% with that opinion, which of course is simply my own opinion. To say the Estes 29mm E16 & F15 motors aren't impressive to watch fly in a Pro Series size model is in my opinion a false statement. There are MANY people out there that love to see a large model take off slowly, arc over and then to actually be able to see the chute eject and open up.
John Boren

+1 I love the E16 and F15 motors! Put one in a BT-60 model and you don't even need to watch it arc over :)
 
Thanks Daddy, another half hour of my life spent staring at pictures of jets on the Internet. :) When I should be working. :p

I did the same thing to figure out what an Argent was... Then the word argent came up (at work no less) and I sounded pretty smart for knowing.
 
A couple of personal thoughts about STUFF.

Every Kit in the book isn't for me.... never has been, never will be..... and that's cool.

I don't care if there are 500 RTF kits.... as long as we get a skill level 4, 5, or PSII every now and again, I'm golden. And this one here hits the nail on the head for me. Very cool.
 
+1 I love the E16 and F15 motors! Put one in a BT-60 model and you don't even need to watch it arc over :)

+2 - I fly quite a few F15 BP motors, they're really fun! Love the long burn & BP sound & smoke.
 
...
I prefer the slower type of flight.
...

Same here. That is why I enjoy flying F15 Motors on the upper stage of my 2 stage Ascender. Spectators really like seeing the flights when the F15 lights up in the air with a long smokey burn :)
 
SPEV or not.... I really like this one.

Me too. Something about those sorta Cherokee fins I think.

...

... I would say however that if you like what you see, buy it now even if your only intention is to us the kits for parts.

That alone speaks volumes!

OR... it could be his not so subtle way to "facilitate" the start of the buying frenzy that you mentioned. I would think any Estes employee would be quite happy if that happens. :wink:
 
The Jedi mind trick "Buy more Estes Stuff" has always worked on me.

Then there are the little voices saying "Cant three Estes F-15-4s and see what you can fly!" Some say "Buy more PS II and other Estes kits during the holiday sales and glue them together to form F and E powered cluster rockets with pods!" Others say "Buy that sale bin Halloween decoration, it will fly on three Estes F-15s." That must be the Dark Side of the Force working on the weak minded.
 
Originally Posted by JumpJet
......... I would say however that if you like what you see, buy it now even if your only intention is to us the kits for parts.

That alone speaks volumes!

Not in the way you are implying IMHO, if what you mean is that this indicates the PSII models are on a very short rope. Rather, I interpret it simply as: don't assume what will be available in the future, because who knows.

I learned that in the past about seeing bands I like in concert. See them when you can, because you simply can't know when they're going to break up, or start sucking, or whatever.

In any case I will chime in that I hope the PSII kits stay around, and also that if John is really the *sole* designer of Estes rockets these days... well that is amazing, because the variety of new designs is impressive, and really don't all look like they're coming from the same brain.

Back on topic: is this one designed for a payload section up top, and if not is it hard to convert?
 
the variety of new designs is impressive, and really don't all look like they're coming from the same brain.


My brain is actually really screwed up, but hopefully in a good way, or maybe in a different way or maybe; well I think I still have a brain!:y:


John Boren
 
designed for a payload section up top

This model simply has a bottom slotted tube for the fins and a un-slotted upper tube connected together with a coupler. Both tubes are 15.5" long.

John Boren
 
This model simply has a bottom slotted tube for the fins and a un-slotted upper tube connected together with a coupler. Both tubes are 15.5" long.

John Boren

Thanks for the dimensions of the tubes... the photo of the unassembled kit on the website looked like the un-slotted tube was shorter.
 
A couple of personal thoughts about STUFF.

The one thing I've come to realize in reading forum posts is that everyone has their own opinions. I may disagree 100% with that opinion, which of course is simply my own opinion. To say the Estes 29mm E16 & F15 motors aren't impressive to watch fly in a Pro Series size model is in my opinion a false statement. There are MANY people out there that love to see a large model take off slowly, arc over and then to actually be able to see the chute eject and open up. There are others that like to use V-Max type motors where you see NOTHING of the flight since the rocket is there one second, gone the next and then the next time you see it is when the model is floating down. I prefer the slower type of flight. I also prefer models that don't go much higher then what I can see, while others like to fly just under the fields maximum flight waiver if you fly at a club. Again everyone has their opinions. I've learned over my time here as the sole designer of Estes rocket kits to ignore people who have very STRONG opinions to put it mildly. Product is produced for the masses, meaning it isn't produced for the few thousand people that view the forums and the much lesser of which actually post a message. If product was only produced for the forum type modelers, Estes would be out of business since there simply isn't enough of you to keep us in business. With that said, do I listen to what people would like Estes to bring back or make new, sure; I've been designing, building and flying model rockets for some 45 years now and most likely think rocket XYZ was super cool looking when I was growing up and think it would be cool to others as well if it was brought back as a kit.

As for, is the entire line of Pro Series builder kits going away, I can't personally answer that, since I'm not in charge of what is or isn't going to be discontinued and even then the person(s) in charge of this can change their mind. I would say however that if you like what you see, buy it now even if your only intention is to us the kits for parts.

In a perfect world everyone ones opinion would be ignored and they would simply listen to what I say. (Jedi Mind Trick) You don't need to eat and pay your mortgage, you need to buy more Estes Rocket Stuff! :wink:

John Boren

I'm not going to start panicking until I see Mega Der Red Max parts on an SPEV. But if that happens, I'm going to have to buy every damn nose cone I can find. So My Jedi Mind Trick would encourage everyone to go buy an MDRM.

I like all types of launches - slow, fast, whatever...as long as it goes up and is loud. And I like some of the ones that don't manage to go up. It's a shame the PSII kits haven't really translated into Estes motor sales, because the business model clearly is designed to sell motors, and if they don't do that, it doesn't work. I am a fan of the long-burn black-powder low-and-slow 29mm E16/F15, though, so I hope those stick around.
 
Has anyone received theirs or built it yet? I ordered mine yesterday. Not sure if I'll go with the stock paint job or with a Cherokee D scheme.
 
This looks to me like one builder kit that I would definitely try flying on the BP E16 or F15. It looks like a weight that might work well for those motors. Most of the other builder kits I feel are a bit big for those motors, although I have seen a Ventris fly on an F15, and it was really nice. I wouldn't try it on anything but a dead calm day, but ihat Ventris flight was a very nice, slow, graceful flight under 1,000 feet. Just like John described. I'd love to see more builder kits that would work reliably with these motors.
 
Speaking of E16 and F15, are the AT economax motors, say G74 series, a resonable step up in thrust for about the same $ if extra Ns are needed? Regardless, I do like the F15s in the Prowler with a booster fitted...
 
Speaking of E16 and F15, are the AT economax motors, say G74 series, a resonable step up in thrust for about the same $ if extra Ns are needed? Regardless, I do like the F15s in the Prowler with a booster fitted...

I've flown my Ventris and Sahara on the G74's and had great flights!
 
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