Goblin nose cone, pre-packed with epoxy inside nose cone?

I was just wondering about something. In the process of building my GOBLIN, the new Estes kit #7237, as i packed the end of the cone with the included clay squares, the clay became surrounded by a creamy white liquid. I thought WTF is this stuff, ahhhh yes, epoxy to GLUE the clay in place? Weird, it looked and felt like there was nothing inside nose cone before i started packing it, anyone know what the story is? The kit says nothing about this, just says to roll up clay and stuff down into nose cone with a stick. I wondered HOW the clay would stay put without rattling around. Is this a prepacked glue or some weird reaction?

That's a new one for me. Did said liquid set?

rstaff3 said:

That's a new one for me. Did said liquid set?

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It looks like it is setting. I poked the end of a launch rod in there and it seems like the white stuff is SLOWLY getting hard.

The Goblin kit produced by Estes does not contain anything in the nose from the factory. Not sure what's going on with your nose cone but I doubt very much it's any form of glue that was already in there. The clay has some form of oil in it. Maybe it came to the surface after you push the clay into place.



John Boren

JumpJet said:

The Goblin kit produced by Estes does not contain anything in the nose from the factory. Not sure what's going on with your nose cone but I doubt very much it's any form of glue that was already in there. The clay has some form of oil in it. Maybe it came to the surface after you push the clay into place.



John Boren

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I don't know, could be. The clay was rolled into a continuous pencil like length, then pushed in cone with a launch rod. The clay just seemed to liquidize and settle into almost a soft glue like paste. The clay was, well seemed like just regular clay like you would use in art class to make pottery or whatever. Maybe just an illusion i'm seeing since i'm looking down into the cone through a 1/4 hole. But wouldn't the clay shake loose without being glued down in there? that would be a pain if it DID!!

Vigilante_A-20_DEMON said:

I don't know, could be. The clay was rolled into a continuous pencil like length, then pushed in cone with a launch rod. The clay just seemed to liquidize and settle into almost a soft glue like paste. The clay was, well seemed like just regular clay like you would use in art class to make pottery or whatever. Maybe just an illusion i'm seeing since i'm looking down into the cone through a 1/4 hole. But wouldn't the clay shake loose without being glued down in there? that would be a pain if it DID!!

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You might try stuffing some foam inside the NC to help hold it in place should it "break loose".

K'Tesh said:

You might try stuffing some foam inside the NC to help hold it in place should it "break loose".

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That might be a good use for expanding foam. FWIW, when I've used the Estes clay squares, I've always had good luck with them staying in. When I've used modeling clay, it has dried up and fallen out. Maybe the oil in the clay Estes uses is enough to keep it from drying out and allows it to stay bonded...

If you don't want to fill the whole thing, polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue) should work for this also. I have successfully used it. It seems to adhere to cones pretty well.

EXPjawa said:

That might be a good use for expanding foam. FWIW, when I've used the Estes clay squares, I've always had good luck with them staying in. When I've used modeling clay, it has dried up and fallen out. Maybe the oil in the clay Estes uses is enough to keep it from drying out and allows it to stay bonded...

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Yeah. Estes are quite the experts and are have designed their kits quite well. They where good enough to supply the little clay squares with the Goblin Kit. Should you plug up and SEAL the hole in the nose cone to keep the clay from drying out ?

K'Tesh said:

You might try stuffing some foam inside the NC to help hold it in place should it "break loose".

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I like your idea.

I also just recently built such a "goblin" but I think mine was from Semroc. I was a bit puzzled by the need to insert a tube of clay roll, but I did it just fine, and pressing it into place with a blunt pencil, it seemed to pack in just fine.

I experienced none of the difficulty that you seem to have. (However, I have misplaced my adhesive sticker to fasten the crepe paper streamer onto the shock cord... maybe I'll find something else to accomplish that tonight...)

I was wondering about all this because i have seen many videos at YT where they went through all this effort to mix epoxy and ball bearings together then pour into the nose cone and having to sand the inside of cone 1ST because NOTHING sticks to polypropylene plastic unless sanded 1st, (or so they claim) ALSO, to drill holes in a cross pattern just above where the clay or any other object is in cone and pass wooden sticks through and trim them off. Like someone said here, just stuff foam or any other very light object into cone should the clay shake loose, no real biggie really.Thank you guys so far for the really great replies.

Estes nose cones are not polypropylene. they are (iirc) a form of styrene.
Rex

Rex R said:

Estes nose cones are not polypropylene. they are (iirc) a form of styrene.
Rex

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*MOST* of Estes nose cones are not polypropylene, but there are old kits that around that were. IINM, the vast majority of them that were made of polypropylene were BT-56 based nosecones. If memory serves, according to a post by John Boren (JumpJet) none of Estes' current kits use them.

I dripped some epoxy down into the cones to cover up the clay on the few I have made so far that come with the clay just to make sure it would stay in place. I was also worried that it would not stay put. I have also just dripped epoxy into a few others that needed just a little bit of weight. None of them came loose.

Haven't used clay in a long time except for glider trimming. For nose cones, I go with BBs, a few drops of water and a *small* amount of Gorilla Glue (the urethane kind, now they are selling all kinds of stuff). Sticks to pretty much any kind of plastic NC, even polypro. I've got a Madcow BOMARC with 400gm of weight added that way, solid as a rock and only takes a couple of minutes, mostly to weigh out the shot. Don't use too much glue, it expands significantly. Goblins can definitely use the nose weight - they are short enough that the CP goes north pretty fast if they get to some angle of attack. I built an uprated Goblin with 25-30 gm of nose weight that can take any 24mm power that will fit...amazing fun on E9's.

Vigilante_A-20_DEMON said:

I don't know, could be. The clay was rolled into a continuous pencil like length, then pushed in cone with a launch rod. The clay just seemed to liquidize and settle into almost a soft glue like paste. The clay was, well seemed like just regular clay like you would use in art class to make pottery or whatever. Maybe just an illusion i'm seeing since i'm looking down into the cone through a 1/4 hole. But wouldn't the clay shake loose without being glued down in there? that would be a pain if it DID!!

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Pottery clay is "earth"/natural and contains water. It will dry eventually or you can "fire" it in a kiln .

Estes does not use natural pottery clay. They use a form of plasticene which has IIRC mineral oil in it. It virtually never dries, but it can become a soft goo in high heat. Google "Mr Bill" for other ways it can be affected.

Jamming it hard into the tip of the nose usually holds it good. If you will be in high heat, just put a thin layer of epoxy over it (holding tip down) and allow to cure. Or a few drops of Original Gorilla Glue.