Android Tablet WiFi Bluetooth etc. advice please

Let's start with this - I don't have a smart phone, don't want one, not interested. I don't do twitter/facebook/et al and again have zero interest in doing so. I have no interest in electronic gaming, online or otherwise. I have no need to be connected and online 24-7. And on and on..

As such, I know next to nothing about the world of mobile devices - the software, use, practical concerns, etc.

All that said, there are of late more and more rocketry-related products and such that seem to be making me think that having a "device" that enables me to use Android, wifi, Bluetooth, etc., would not be such a bad idea. I'm thinking of things like the just released Eggtimer WiFi switch and such. I also picked up an older AltusMetrum Telemini that I haven't been able to put into service yet (waiting on a Teledongle and it seems like TeleBT is the way to go along with, you guessed it, an Android enabled device).

So, school me in what I need to know.

What I'd like to do (I think) is pick up a CHEAP Android table that has what I need to utilize things like the Eggtimer switch, AltusMetrum avionics, and all. I don't care about all the other groovy apps and phone service and games and social media and crap that goes along with "normal" use of "smart" devices like this - I just want to use it for rocketry stuff at the launch field. I'm perfectly fine buying something used and even a bit beat up.

So what do I need to know? What are the bare minimum functionality/specs/capability that I need for the device to have? What do I want to look for and what should I avoid in terms of a used unit?

Or - am I completely off base here? Does what I want to do make sense?

thanks for your help,
s6

Best Buy Wi-fi /BT new $49.99

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/digiland-7-8gb-black/8610212.p?id=1219354106671&skuId=8610212

Are you in a hurry? There should be a ton of deals this Black Friday (a little over a month away).

Ok, so a couple of questions....

That Digiland unit seems like along the lines I'm looking for. Here's what I'm interested in being able to use:
* AltosDroid interface for using AltusMetrum avionics.
* Missileworks RTx interface
* Eggtimer WiFi switch interface
* Altimeter3 interface
* Thrustcurve app
* OpenRocket
Would that Digiland unit be up to the task for all or any of these? Any reason I would "need more" of whatever it doesn't have enough of? How much storage/speed/RAM/ROM/etc. do I need?
I realize that some of these apps and such aren't even available yet, but this gives you and idea of what I want this device to do for me.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that all of these functions (except Thrustcurve) would be possible without an internet connection, yes?

Another thing I would like this "thingie" to be capable of is displaying (at least) either/or PDF files or Word files. I've got a number of charts and things that I'd like to have access to on the launch field.

What else is out there rocketry-wise that you think I should be looking at while I'm at it?

s6

michigander said:

Best Buy Wi-fi /BT new $49.99

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/digiland-7-8gb-black/8610212.p?id=1219354106671&skuId=8610212

Click to expand...

Funny you mention this particular one. I decided to try an Android with my Eggfinders as opposed to entering the coordinates in my Garmin GPS. I have been looking at this unit for a couple of days and it seems to have what I need. I ordered it tonight and it should be here Thursday.

The one linked at Best Buy seems like a reasonable purchase, from what I can see. OP: You probably don't really care which version of Android it comes with, and that's OK, but you really want it to be at least KitKat 4.4. If it's earlier than that, some software you want might not run.

Also, consider getting a more "name brand" unit for cheap from Swappa.com. Swappa is a reputable site to buy and sell used phones/tablets and similar stuff. I've bought and sold a bunch there. Since you aren't picky about condition, you may get a better value there. Just buy from someone with some past ratings if possible.

Important things from a rocketry use perspective:
-Make sure the tablet has GPS. Not all tablets do, with some of the el cheapos don't have it. The linked one at Best Buy lists that it has GPS in the specs.
-Make sure it has a micro SD slot (for a memory SD card). Particularly with cheaper units, you only get 8 GB of RAM so you may need to expand with the SD card. Note, Android has some limitations on what you can do with external memory (as in SD cards) so I'd advise getting a unit at least 16GB. The one linked is only 8.
-Definitely make sure it has front and rear cameras. I know you're not planning to Skype, but it's convenient to take pictures of rocket stuff!

Good luck and have fun.

Marc

I understand you want the device for what it can operate in the rocket world, but I think when you start using the device, you'll find it has a lot of uses besides what it can connect to. I thought the same way you did until I actually got a smart phone. The example I have is the Google maps navigation app. I don't need the app to find my way home from work. I've been making the trip for 28 years. Still, I use the app 2 or 3 times a week because it tells me which roads are jammed, what the travel times are based on traffic levels and the difference in travel times for different routes. Being in the Washington DC area, it can easily save me 20 - 30 minutes travel time on those days when someone hit the brakes too hard and jammed up I-95, which unfortunately happens a lot.

The other thing , those phones have is a camera. It's amazing how much and what you can use that camera for. We are putting a winch on our trailer launcher to raise the mast and I needed measurements of the trailer to figure out loads and components. A tape measure and the camera was all I needed. No writing things down or making sketches, or trying to remember. A bunch of pictures was all I needed.

The notes app is also great. I have notes on everything. Every time I think of something to get the wife for a birthday or Christmas, it goes in the notes. I'm becoming a great gift giver and that has been a good thing! Keeping notes on motors, ejection charge sizes, etc. for your rockets also makes life easier.

A smart phone can be a great thing, even if you don't use the online, connection to the world features. A couple of hands of solitaire or a Sudoku puzzle while sitting in a waiting room can work too.

If you're going to be using it with an Eggfinder (or any other tracker) you'll want to make sure it has a GPS built-in. For $50, looks like you can't go wrong with this one... it's "GPS enabled" according to the specs. BTW, an Eggtimer WiFi Switch will work with just about anything... probably even an iWatch.

+1 on making sure it has GPS.

Probably the thing you'll pay the most for is performance, and you have my sympathy for how hard that is to figure out in advance.
I have always found that the Google devices (branded Nexus) were good values; I got the Google Nexus 7 when it came out for $199 and it was great then and it's still pretty good.

Make sure it can support Bluetooth low energy (BLE), but most of them do these days. In the future, many small devices like altimeters will move to BLE because of how low power it is compared to the full-rate Bluetooth in many current products, like AltimeterThree.

Even though Jolly Logic has an app in the Amazon store, I'd probably steer you away from Amazon-branded devices, because of their non-standard Maps technology.

I would encourage you (based on your usage) to pick a brand you like and then shop for a used one on eBay. For instance, since Jolly Logic has to have a wide range of mobile devices to test with, this is a very familiar approach for me. When I needed an Android mobile phone, I went on eBay and got a great Moto X for $50. I never activate the cellular part of it, but have just tested with WiFi. You could do the same thing, by the way, if you didn't mind the phone-sized (but very nice) screen.

Buying a used "one generation back" phone or tablet is the biggest bargain in electronics. Just make sure it was a well-respected model--look for reviews like "great performance for the price."

I'm not sure how much extra storage / SD card expansion you'll need, given that you're not a heavy user.

Be careful on running OpenRocket... Many Android devices don't run flash, which is the service needed to run OpenRocket...

I have the above tablet , I honestly hardly ever use it smart phone gets used. Smartphone of course works great with Google earth and maps.

As always, this forum - and the great members here - come through with lots of great advice and answers - thanks everyone so far.

Now, more questions:

How practical is it with a device like this to run multiple things simultaneously? I'm thinking of a scenario such as: turning on my avionics via the Eggtimer switch, then accessing AltosDroid to get my Telemini ready for launch and "speaking" to the ground station, then maybe a quick pad photo, then launching/tracking. Is it easy and smooth switching back and forth between such functions, or does this involve delays and such? Can each of these functions be running/active at the same time, and it's just a matter of quickly switching between open "windows" on the screen?

s6

Oh, and when I'm searching Ebay for cheap deals, I notice that many offerings note that the unit is "unlocked". What does this mean exactly?

s6

CzTeacherMan said:

Be careful on running OpenRocket... Many Android devices don't run flash, which is the service needed to run OpenRocket...

Click to expand...

OpenRocket for android does not use Adobe Flash. It hasn't been updated in quite some time because I've lost interest in Android development, but it should run on most current devices.

stealth6 said:

How practical is it with a device like this to run multiple things simultaneously? I'm thinking of a scenario such as: turning on my avionics via the Eggtimer switch, then accessing AltosDroid to get my Telemini ready for launch and "speaking" to the ground station, then maybe a quick pad photo, then launching/tracking. Is it easy and smooth switching back and forth between such functions, or does this involve delays and such? Can each of these functions be running/active at the same time, and it's just a matter of quickly switching between open "windows" on the screen?

s6

Click to expand...

Android is quite peculiar by modern os standards in that it doesn't really run more than one program at a time. When an app is sent to the background (ie, another app is brought forward), the background app is sent notification and the code needs to store all the appropriate state. This is not always the easiest thing to do and some apps don't do it correctly. Some apps (AltosDroid, I have first hand knowledge of) does run a background service to communicate with the radio so it does keep the radio connected even when you switch applications. I haven't had a problem with AltosDroid.

Kevin

Digiland from Best Buy that I received today coupled with an Eggfinder LCD via Bluetooth. The little man is the location of the Eggfinder.

Titan II said:

Digiland from Best Buy that I received today coupled with an Eggfinder LCD via Bluetooth. The little man is the location of the Eggfinder.

Click to expand...

Yeah, You're using B/T GPS I believe. Only issue is for local testing it's fine. You feed the device via B/T from the EF LCD to display the position of the EggFinder. Be aware, you can't download and store/cache the photos very well with that app. It won't display the position of your device at the same time as the EF so you can walk the line. You can use GPS Rocket Locator and use the internal GPS on your tablet and the incoming positions from the rocket to get a datum line to track to the rocket. Like John says above the more memory the better. I got a Nexus 7 2013 Flo a couple of years ago 32Gb. (No phone inside)

S6, you can google "unlocked" and "rooted" Android device and get a myriad of resources. I discovered my N7 sort of has "linux" underpinnings and unlocking and rooting gives a lot of control. You might not want to venture there.
One can put a different overlay on for another look. I'm using Cyanogen Mod and multiboot but boy oh boy was the learning curve high. If you stick with straight forward apps, shouldn't be a problem. Kurt Savegnago

Ok, I'm a little farther down the road on this. I've been looking around, touching/feeling a few offerings, scoping out reviews, prices, etc. And I've started narrowing down the field of what I'm looking for.

* I definitely think that I want a screen size between 5" and 6". Smaller to me is cramped and hard to see what I want, and larger doesn't fit well into my hand/pocket, etc.

* It seems that most of the actual phones (rather than just tablets) do offer more of what I need, even though I wouldn't be using them for phone service.

* There are LOTS of choices out there, and honestly it's a bit bewildering.

* What is important to me is ease of use, relatively "fast", not tons of extraneous "extras" that I have to wade through in order to do what I want or that I have to pay for, a bright screen that works well outside in sunlight, not a huge learning curve to be able to do the things I want, battery life enough to get me through typical day at the launch field, rugged enough that it does not have to be babied and "handled with care". Most importantly, it needs to do all the rocketry functions I want without needing cell service (at all) or an internet connection (at least on the launch field, I understand I would need to connect via Wifi at times to load applications and such).

I'm going to list a bunch of devices that it looks like would fit my bill, and that it looks like I can get for $30-$120 or so when I consider used/deals etc. that are available. If you folks could look these over and see if there are any that you would definitely recommend over others, and more importantly if there are any that I should definitely avoid (and reasons for doing so).

Please keep in mind that I do not want to use it as a phone! I simply do not care about phone performance. And I won't be gaming, watching videos, accessing social media, doing tons of apps, and all that. I really do only want this as a rocket tool, using the applications (and similar) that I've noted above. One thing that I read in a review is that a particular unit I was looking at was not capable of running Bluetooth and Wifi simultaneously - I'm assuming that would be an issue for me, yes? - this is the type of "performance and capability" I'm concerned with. A decent camera is nice I agree, but I don't really care about anything beyond "decent" as I much prefer to use a real camera for anything that's important anyway.

Here's that list:

Asus Zenfone 2
Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Samsung Galaxy S4
Samsung Galaxy S5
LG G3
LG G Vista
Motorola Moto G
Motorola Moto X
Motorola Druid Turbo
Lenovo A916
Indigi V13

Any "absolutely yes", "definitely no"?

thanks, s6

I'm not really qualified to give you opinions on ALL of these, but I own a Moto G for use in testing AltimeterThree (it's one of the stack of devices I use to validate Android compatibility). It cost $50, used.
Like I said, I use it with AltimeterThree, and it works great. Awesome value in a smartphone, because it was a "value midrange," which meant it had very good horsepower for the dollar.
Works just as well with AltimeterThree as the fairly new Apple iPhone 6 Plus that is my daily driver. Displays flight graphs (lots of calculations) very snappily. Shows maps. Connects well with Bluetooth.

Avoid anything by HTC. I've had a few of their phones, they're shabbily made. If you're looking at Android, Motorola and Samsung make the best stuff (i.e. least likely to break).

Thanks again for the help - it's definitely appreciated.

On to another question...........

I've found that I can pretty easily get a working/decent Moto G for about $30. Also a Zenfone 2 for $50-$60. I'm fine with spending in that range.

Some of these either don't come with a sim card, or there are problems noted with the sim card. If I understand things correctly, the sim card is really all about phone connectivity, yes? Given that I don't want to use this as a phone, do I even need a sim card? Will the (non-phone) device function without one?

Along the same lines, I'm assuming that "locked/unlocked" or whatever carrier these are set up for (AT&T, Verizon, Boost, etc.) really don't matter for my intended use, yes? If I'm not going to get a contract, and just use the wifi/bluetooth/GPS/onboard apps., then it makes no difference what carrier these are made for, correct?

s6

My advice would be to pick a phone that's compatible with your cell service, even if you don't plan to activate it. My Moto G is that way, so that if I ever need to use it in a pinch (or for one of my kids) I can just call Verizon and immediately activate it.

Handeman said:

I understand you want the device for what it can operate in the rocket world, but I think when you start using the device, you'll find it has a lot of uses besides what it can connect to. I thought the same way you did until I actually got a smart phone. The example I have is the Google maps navigation app. I don't need the app to find my way home from work. I've been making the trip for 28 years. Still, I use the app 2 or 3 times a week because it tells me which roads are jammed, what the travel times are based on traffic levels and the difference in travel times for different routes. Being in the Washington DC area, it can easily save me 20 - 30 minutes travel time on those days when someone hit the brakes too hard and jammed up I-95, which unfortunately happens a lot.

The other thing , those phones have is a camera. It's amazing how much and what you can use that camera for. We are putting a winch on our trailer launcher to raise the mast and I needed measurements of the trailer to figure out loads and components. A tape measure and the camera was all I needed. No writing things down or making sketches, or trying to remember. A bunch of pictures was all I needed.

The notes app is also great. I have notes on everything. Every time I think of something to get the wife for a birthday or Christmas, it goes in the notes. I'm becoming a great gift giver and that has been a good thing! Keeping notes on motors, ejection charge sizes, etc. for your rockets also makes life easier.

A smart phone can be a great thing, even if you don't use the online, connection to the world features. A couple of hands of solitaire or a Sudoku puzzle while sitting in a waiting room can work too.

Click to expand...

I use Waze for my traffic navigation. It is community based so people are reporting problems, cops, and cars on the side of the road.

I gotta agree that when you get a device in hand you use it for everything. I would not put limitations on myself.

I cannot help the selection of a device.