Need help with 6th grade science question

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

brandonppr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
192
Reaction score
1
Ok my daughter got these 2 questions wrong on a 6th grade test. I can not find a better answer than what she gave so I thought I would ask you guys.
Here they are

1)
sci15pop2.gif


The drawing shows an apple falling to the ground. In which of the three positions does gravity act on the apple?

A) 2 only
B) 1 and 2 only
C) 1 and 3 only
D) 1,2, and 3



2)

You turn on a lamp and the light bulb becomes warm. Which of the following energy conversions causes this heating of the light bulb?

A) thermal energy to electrical energy
B) light energy to thermal energy
C) electrical energy to thermal energy
D) electrical energy to light energy
 
these are somewhat tricky #1 boils down to semantics, and #2 not enough info is given. anywho #1) if the meaning of act on refers to accelerating the apple then the correct response would be A, however if it refers to a downward force being applied, then D.
as for q2) what type of bulb are we talking about, incandesents turn all of the electrical energy to thermal energy C.
Rex
 
these are somewhat tricky #1 boils down to semantics, and #2 not enough info is given. anywho #1) if the meaning of act on refers to accelerating the apple then the correct response would be A, however if it refers to a downward force being applied, then D.
as for q2) what type of bulb are we talking about, incandesents turn all of the electrical energy to thermal energy C.
Rex

I concur with Rex.

Everything on the planet is being affected by gravity, at all times (save things like positrons and neutrinos). If it wasn't, we'd all be floating off into space. Besides the Earth's gravity, there's the moon's gravity, that of the sun, the solar system, and the entire galaxy. Heck, there's gravity between you and your computer (not much, but it's there).

Resistance to the electric current causes the electricity to be converted into heat, and some of it into light (for incandescent lights). For that reason, incandescent lights are highly inefficient as a source of light, and are a great source of heat (e.g., incubators, and ye olde Easy Bake Ovens).
 
Last edited:
She answered
D
C

After some major digging online, I found several sources for answer keys and found that she is correct.
She already asked the teacher about the first on about the apple and the teacher told her she was wrong because that gravity is not pulling on the apple when it is on the ground.
To me that is like saying a magnet doesnt have any magnetic force after the magnets stick together therefore is not acting on it.
 
remind me to invite that teacher over to help move all that weightless snow out of my driveway next time we get 3" of wet snow :). or have to move a piano.
Rex
 
The correct answers are D & C.

I found the same test questions with answers and I took an online test that had the gravity question. It came back with positions 1,2,3
 
Thanks for the help.
I found several sources with answer keys and they seem correct. Here is another one that explains it for the first one:
https://www.uv.uio.no/ils/forskning/prosjekt-sider/timss-norge/TIMSS/1995/art_ex_population.pdf

The next item (see Figure 4) is about an apple falling to the ground
due to gravity, a concept that is far from easy. Gravity acts on the apple
whether it is falling or not, regardless of position and movement.
However, when the apple is resting on the ground there is also a force
from the ground pointing upwards. The force of gravity and this force
from the ground have the same size, and the apple is at rest because
the sum of forces is zero. If we neglect the air resistance, only gravity
acts on the apple when it is falling.
Students’ understanding of mechanics is probably the domain within
physics that is most frequently explored by science educators. Many
such studies show that students in all age groups all over the world have
unsatisfactory understanding of simple but crucial topics of mechanics.
And often, the students’ ideas and concepts have been shown to be
surprisingly similar in many countries (Duit & Treagust, 1995). Looking
at Table 5 we see that this item shows remarkably good results.
Perhaps all the attention connected to this research has had a positive
influence on teaching and learning around the world.
K17. The drawing shows an apple falling to the ground. In
which of the three positions does gravity act on the apple?
A. 2 only
B. 1 and 2 only
C. 1 and 3 only
D. 1, 2, and 3
Figure 4. Item K17
The response patterns are quite similar across groups of countries, the
between group part of the pooled variance amounting to only about 25
percent. More than 60 percent correct responses in East Asia
represents a very satisfactory result, and all the countries within this
group score above the international average. However, there are large
differences between some countries within groups, East and South
Europe in particular. For example in East Europe, the Czech Republic
has 81percent correct while Russia has only 42 percent correct and 41
percent for distractor B. Furthermore, in South Europe Spain has 55
percent correct compared to Greece with 30 percent correct and 49
percent for distractor B.

The most common incorrect response is B, which indicates the belief
that gravity acts only when the apple is falling. Distractor A most likely
indicates the same belief. (It is however, not entirely clear if the apple in
Position 1 is moving or not). The international mean response frequency
is 34 percent for these two alternatives together. The conception that
gravity acts only when the effect is observable, is known to be a
common misconception. As diSessa (1993) says, according to many
students’ views only the movement needs to be explained, and gravity
provides this explanation in the form of a “moving force.” Forces are
therefore comprehended as cause for movement and not as cause for
changes of the movement (Sjøberg & Lie 1981).
On the other hand, those students who choose C (Figure 4) may
think that forces only act when the apple is at rest and no forces act on
the falling apple in Position 2. Something similar appears when we are
talking about weightlessness. When an astronaut is so-called
“weightless,” gravity is acting on both the spaceship and the astronaut.
There are however, no forces acting between them, and therefore the
astronaut has this feeling of weightlessness. It is when we are at rest on
the ground we “feel” our weight. This may explain some students’
response to this item. In some countries almost 20 percent chose C, e.g.
Iceland, Latvia, and South Africa.
 
She answered
D
C

After some major digging online, I found several sources for answer keys and found that she is correct.
She already asked the teacher about the first on about the apple and the teacher told her she was wrong because that gravity is not pulling on the apple when it is on the ground.
To me that is like saying a magnet doesnt have any magnetic force after the magnets stick together therefore is not acting on it.

What does the teacher think is the correct answer to the second question?

Why is this woman teaching science?
 
Okay, I met with the teacher today. I asked her what the correct answers were and why.

She said that the first one she would take answer A or B.
I asked why and she replied "gravity doesn't effect it because it is on the ground"

She said the answer to the second one was D.
I asked why and she said "because you see the light before you feel the heat"

So I showed her all the papers I printed off showing why the answers she put should be correct.
Next I showed her the answer keys printed from multiple sources.

She said "wow you really did your research"
followed by "that's just the way I have been teaching it for years, so it has to be right"

I went to the vice principle and asked her to answer the questions.
She said she wasn't 100% but she believed the answers were D and C.
I showed her the information and she took copies of it and is supposed to get back with me.
 
She said that the first one she would take answer A or B.
I asked why and she replied "gravity doesn't effect it because it is on the ground"

When I was in college taking Calculus, the teacher kept telling us to go to the review sessions run by the TA, because it was "really helpful." I didn't need the help, but I decided I should check it out once.

At the review session, one of the kids asked about a problem in the textbook.. "a man throws a ball on the moon, how long does it take before it comes down" or something like that. The TA's comment "That's a silly question! Everyone knows there is no gravity on the moon!". This was coming from someone working on their postdoc in math.

I left that session and never came back.
 
Okay, I met with the teacher today. I asked her what the correct answers were and why.

She said that the first one she would take answer A or B.
I asked why and she replied "gravity doesn't effect it because it is on the ground"

She said the answer to the second one was D.
I asked why and she said "because you see the light before you feel the heat"

So I showed her all the papers I printed off showing why the answers she put should be correct.
Next I showed her the answer keys printed from multiple sources.

She said "wow you really did your research"
followed by "that's just the way I have been teaching it for years, so it has to be right"

I went to the vice principle and asked her to answer the questions.
She said she wasn't 100% but she believed the answers were D and C.
I showed her the information and she took copies of it and is supposed to get back with me.

Wow good for you supporting your daughter this way.

My wife is a teacher, and a good one, and our children's teachers know this, so I let her deal with them and she does very well. So far we have had great teachers but there will likely be at least one like this, or worse, and when they cross my wife's path I will almost feel sorry for them...almost!
 
Yikes, I figured D and C . I had to rethink the second question It's poorly worded. The correct answer is B and C and if you want to pick nits you could throw in D. The light ( wave length matters here) is a waste product of C but is converted to heat when it contacts with a surface. D is a trap answer and assumes heat is the waste product( from a certain point of view)But, the primary purpose of the bulb was to make light so---see previous answer ! Oh yea, gravity acts on everything---everything is falling towards a gravity source--acceleration is a whole different matter !
 
for the warm light bulb question I found one teacher ppt that indicated answer D. However, the three other test guides I found indicated the answer as C.
 
I'd have said 1: D and 2: C.

What I don't understand is, if question 1 refers only to the acceleration of the apple, why anyone would pick A? At position 1, gravity is accelerating the apple, which is why it begins to fall. Besides, if you're being that picky, look closely at the diagram and observe that the apple is not joined to the tree at position 1, it's already on its way down. :D As for the teacher who thinks gravity doesn't act on an object which is sitting still, give her an apple as a present but put it on the table in front of her. When she picks it up, casually mention that it probably weighed something when she did, and that's gravity acting on it. :lol:

I see no problem with question 2. The light bulb is specifically stated to be heating up. Unless you want to argue that it is absorbing light and converting that to heat, the only other answer which mentions heat as an output is C. The fact that the bulb also produces light, that being its intended purpose, is irrelevant. It is also possible to have a similar question about an electric heater which glows, so which energy conversion causes the light? This time the heating effect is irrelevant, as is the fact that some heaters don't produce any light - this one does, the question states as much, so the correct answer would be electrical energy to light energy.
 
I see no problem with question 2. The light bulb is specifically stated to be heating up. Unless you want to argue that it is absorbing light and converting that to heat, the only other answer which mentions heat as an output is C. The fact that the bulb also produces light, that being its intended purpose, is irrelevant.

While I agree that C is the best answer, including D is not incorrect. It is actually the only one that mentions heat as an output. An increase in thermal energy produces faster motion of particles within the bulb. Heat is transferred from the bulb by light. You feel the bulb warming due to its radiation of infrared light.

-- Roger
 
Last edited:
As a student, if there's one thing I seriously can't stand, it's probably poor teachers. The answers are D and C. The second question is a bit tricky, but there's no question about number 1. This teacher needs to be permanently relieved of her position.

Nate
 
Last edited:
I agree with most of the analysis here and really hope I never have confront a teacher about such basic concepts. Yikes, another thing of parenthood I didn't foresee!
 
She answered
D
C

After some major digging online, I found several sources for answer keys and found that she is correct.
She already asked the teacher about the first on about the apple and the teacher told her she was wrong because that gravity is not pulling on the apple when it is on the ground.
To me that is like saying a magnet doesnt have any magnetic force after the magnets stick together therefore is not acting on it.

Boy, that teacher is an idiot. I guess this is a teachable moment...you can tell your daughter that "not everybody in charge/over you is smarter than you..."

I remember having a conversation with a teacher, and on the topic of astronomy and the seasons, she told me "it is warmer in the summer because the Earth is closer to the Sun." It was a casual conversation, so I didn't feel it was appropriate to tell her about axial tilt, & all that, but man, I remember thinking I felt sorry for all her students.

If she is interested, maybe there is somebody working in your area who could mentor her on some science topics...don't let this idiot teacher hold your kid back!
 
So wait a minute, this teacher gave a form test that had an answer key, but did NOT use the answer key and graded it with his/her own poor understanding and knowledge of science?

Holy cow! You know what, you should get the answer key, make the teacher take the test, and then give the teachers score to the superintendent.
 
By the teacher's logic then... I should weigh nothing when standing still. While I like the sound of that, my knees are telling me that I'm no featherweight.
 
If you understand the underlying physics, these questions are rather easy. I would have said D & C. As I'm sure all of the mission controllers at NASA would have, especially those in "The Trench".

It looks like the teacher didn't understand the underlying physics.

Rather than cite the teacher for her lack of understanding (it's tempting), I'd rather give kudos to the involved parent that works to point his child in the right direction. Even if it means asking the teacher questions. Way to go!

Greg
 
If you understand the underlying physics, these questions are rather easy. I would have said D & C. As I'm sure all of the mission controllers at NASA would have, especially those in "The Trench".

It looks like the teacher didn't understand the underlying physics.

The post that explains the answer cites "diSessa (1993)"; that reference is for his book "Toward an Epistemology of Physics." I hadn't heard of that before, but diSessa is one of those geniuses in physics who then became very interested in how physics is taught, and how to improve foundational knowledge for critical thinking. It appears that a lot of thought went into how to teach basic concepts, and then a lot of thought went into how to test to see if students correctly understood the concepts.

I guess the fly in the ointment is, nobody thought about teaching or testing the teacher!

Rather than cite the teacher for her lack of understanding (it's tempting), I'd rather give kudos to the involved parent that works to point his child in the right direction. Even if it means asking the teacher questions. Way to go!

Greg

Except, this teacher is easily teaching 20-30 other students the same wrong ideas...if not more. Over this teachers career, how many hundreds or more students are either going to be taught incorrect ideas or concepts, or who might be gifted and understand science, only to be frustrated by this teacher telling them they are wrong (when it is clear the teacher doesn't understand).

As a tax payer, should this teacher keep earning a salary when they are incompetent?
 
My fifth grade teacher had to be fired because she was, well, stupid. She was a first year teacher. Here are some examples of things she said in class, resulting in her bring fired (the remainder of the year was taught by an AP).

There was a Hispanic girl in the class whose name was Ines. That's the Spanish spelling of Inez, and pronounced the same. During role call on the first day, the teacher called her something like "INNess." The girl said, "My name is eyeNEZZ." The teacher said, "No, Inez is spelled with a Z. Your name is INNess." And she called her INNess for the rest of her short career.

In math, we were studying functions. But it was fifth grade, and they didn't call them "functions." The text book used the idea of "does" and "undoes." So a function "does" this thing, and a reverse function "undoes" it.

The teacher insisted on saying "dooze" and "undooze." Several students tried to correct her, but to no avail. All the kids complained to their parents, and the parents complained to the principal. Next thing we knew, she was having in-class evaluations. And then she was gone. There was a great sigh of relief.
 
Oy. Reminds me of when my mom sent a nice note to my second grade teacher asking her to stop telling kids that anything divided by zero was zero. Fortunately, I don't think the teacher argued. That would not have ended well.

The answer to question 1 is clearly D as so cogently described everywhere else in this thread. I think you could make an argument for B and C for question 2. The primary reason for warming the bulb is electrical to thermal (C), but there are some energy losses as the light from the filament passes through the glass of the bulb, so there's a minor light to thermal effect (B) as well.
 
D & C..

but while we're at it. has this teacher be 'forced' to teach a subject she isn't comfortable with, or can't grasp? Has she been placed in a class, and is relying solely on the material given to her? (I've had one in the past, and I've seen some language teachers struggle with the language they are trying to teach..)
 
It is significant to remember that in elementary school, they don't have specialized classes. Your teacher is your science, math, English, and social studies teacher. My elementary school only had specialists for phys. ed., art, and music.
 
It is significant to remember that in elementary school, they don't have specialized classes. Your teacher is your science, math, English, and social studies teacher. My elementary school only had specialists for phys. ed., art, and music.

However, presumably the teacher has a college degree. Everyone with a college degree should be able to do better.
 
My daughter asked the vice principle today and she said she hasn't had a chance to review it yet.
My wife talked to another parent that was having a child that never had any issues in science all of a sudden hating science and doing poorly. She said this teacher noticed her son had his shoes untied and took him by the ear around the hall way making him ask other students if it is important to tie your shoes for about 5 minutes.
She said she has complained to the principle with no results.
Science and math are my daughter's favorite subjects. Her science grade right now is the lowest grade she has ever gotten since she has been in school. She is doing well in all her other classes.

Luckily my daughter said that the teacher is taking off for a month to stay with her husband during surgery. Someone we know who works in the school said that she is not coming back because she is retiring after she takes her 4 weeks time off. I sure hope this is true.

It is significant to remember that in elementary school, they don't have specialized classes. Your teacher is your science, math, English, and social studies teacher. My elementary school only had specialists for phys. ed., art, and music.

This is middle school and this teacher only teaches science and she teaches to 25 students in each period. I'm not sure how many periods are but I would assume at least about 5 or more.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top