Finally had a chance to use some West Systems epoxy

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AfterBurners

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After opening the can of resin and hardener. I followed the directions and selected the correct size tubing for my group size which was group "A"

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I primed the pumps 3-4 times and now I was ready to use the product.

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I thought I would see how it "sets" in the plastic cups I had used to prime the pumps. I noticed that it was pretty thin the first 15 or so minutes and then I decided to leave and run some errands. When I came back the cups began to melt, but I caught it in the nick of time before it got on my work bench. I tossed the cups in the trash, but the product had set up very nice.

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So now was the time to try on my PML Bull Pup, which turned out with excellent results. I epoxied the boat tail to the airframe and the epoxy flowed nicely on the inside creating a nice fillet around the forward center ring. Very even results :)

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The one thing I did notice about the product that I liked is the "one" pump for both which is fool proof. The only thing is that each pump does make a substantial amount of mixture so I have to be aware that when I use to make sure I use it all without wasting it.

I also have the Silica 406 and chopped carbon fiber which I plan on using on my next set of fillets

West Systems is great stuff and very practical in the long run. I still would like to try some "Rocket Epoxy" I know a lot of you guys on here use and with great success.:)
 
I learned about West System Epoxy a long time ago, while it was still known as W.E.S.T. System. The acronym was Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique. It's a boat building epoxy which is why there are no small bottles. There have been some mighty big boats built with this stuff ;)
 
I learned about West System Epoxy a long time ago, while it was still known as W.E.S.T. System. The acronym was Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique. It's a boat building epoxy which is why there are no small bottles. There have been some mighty big boats built with this stuff ;)

I plan on getting some big rockets later :)
 
It is good stuff, I was introduced to it years ago doing vacuum bagged wings for sailplanes (the RC kind).
The pump dispensers are nice, takes care of getting measured quantities of each.

Yes...you have to buy in larger quantities and shelf life eventually killed my supply over time.
Could not use it fast enough.
I've been using ZAP Z Poxy finishing resin from the local hobby shop in the interim.


I just found West Systems on the shelf of a local West Marine boat supply retailer nearby so I'll be buying some when I get around to a larger project.
They also sell the white pigment to add color to mix, along with fillers.
 
Nice Bullpuppy! :)

I just used West for the first time on my 3" Punisher build. Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I didn't like how loooong it took to set. At times it seemed to take 30+ minutes for the Fast hardener (except the one time I tested a small cup held in my hand...that one set in 15min and when it hardened, it happened very quick...liquid, liquid, goop, solid). For me, 30 min isn't Fast and I don't know when (if ever) I'll ever even use the Slow. In fact, I ended up using the Fast for the fillets and even then it took so long that even with a bunch of silica, I had some slow drips. I got so tired of the mess that for the final set of fillets, I used some 15 minute Hobby Epoxy and those fillets came out absolutely beautiful. Maybe I just need more time getting to know West.

BTW - Temps here were in the 70's and 80's.

YMMV.
 
It is good stuff, I was introduced to it years ago doing vacuum bagged wings for sailplanes (the RC kind).
The pump dispensers are nice, takes care of getting measured quantities of each.

Yes...you have to buy in larger quantities and shelf life eventually killed my supply over time.
Could not use it fast enough.
I've been using ZAP Z Poxy finishing resin from the local hobby shop in the interim.


I just found West Systems on the shelf of a local West Marine boat supply retailer nearby so I'll be buying some when I get around to a larger project.
They also sell the white pigment to add color to mix, along with fillers.

So what is the shelf life on it if stored in fairly cool temps? I'll be sharing it with my friend and he builds a lot as well.
 
Nice Bullpuppy! :)

I just used West for the first time on my 3" Punisher build. Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I didn't like how loooong it took to set. At times it seemed to take 30+ minutes for the Fast hardener (except the one time I tested a small cup held in my hand...that one set in 15min and when it hardened, it happened very quick...liquid, liquid, goop, solid). For me, 30 min isn't Fast and I don't know when (if ever) I'll ever even use the Slow. In fact, I ended up using the Fast for the fillets and even then it took so long that even with a bunch of silica, I had some slow drips. I got so tired of the mess that for the final set of fillets, I used some 15 minute Hobby Epoxy and those fillets came out absolutely beautiful. Maybe I just need more time getting to know West.

BTW - Temps here were in the 70's and 80's.

YMMV.

I noticed the same thing with set times, but I haven't tried it on any fillets or with any silica added to it so not sure how it will set up. I always dispense it in a cup first or practice on scrap parts just so I don't damage anything.

It was pretty nice here in SO Cali around 78-80 good temps
 
I noticed the same thing with set times, but I haven't tried it on any fillets or with any silica added to it so not sure how it will set up. I always dispense it in a cup first or practice on scrap parts just so I don't damage anything.

It was pretty nice here in SO Cali around 78-80 good temps

Actually, the slowest set times for me were for the CRs and motor mount. I was surprised that a lot of it dripped through the top of the forward most ring all the way to the bottom (I was trying to add extra epoxy to seal the ring before using 2 part foam). Took a heck of a while for that to dry inside. Also I'm sure it was the Fast Hardener since I haven't even opened the Slow yet and I also have the pumps.

Helpful tip - Don't close the top lid of the pump very tight onto the cans...if you do and you get a low pressure weather system coming in, the expanding air pressure in the can may push epoxy up through the spout onto your work area. Guess how I know. ;)
 
Actually, the slowest set times for me were for the CRs and motor mount. I was surprised that a lot of it dripped through the top of the forward most ring all the way to the bottom (I was trying to add extra epoxy to seal the ring before using 2 part foam). Took a heck of a while for that to dry inside. Also I'm sure it was the Fast Hardener since I haven't even opened the Slow yet and I also have the pumps.

Helpful tip - Don't close the top lid of the pump very tight onto the cans...if you do and you get a low pressure weather system coming in, the expanding air pressure in the can may push epoxy up through the spout onto your work area. Guess how I know. ;)

Thanks for the heads up. They are tighten down, but not like torque wrench tight:p

What about the cap above the lid? I just have it snug
 
So what is the shelf life on it if stored in fairly cool temps? I'll be sharing it with my friend and he builds a lot as well.

Wish I could tell you with certainty...I packed up everything and moved for a career change and was out of the hobby for awhile by the time I got back in (several years had passed).
I can't tell you if I stored it in the best situation either, temperature may have varied in the shed out back...the viscosity was so bad I tossed them.
 
Thanks for the heads up. They are tighten down, but not like torque wrench tight:p

What about the cap above the lid? I just have it snug

I don't think that cap above the lid is a cap...the sucker just spins around the last time I checked. The main point is to not make it completely air tight so extra pressure can escape. Not sure if this affects the shelf life or allows it to dry out (I wouldn't think so since it's already sitting liquid in the pump nozzle and doesn't dry out/harden there), but I rather do this than clean up epoxy off the stuff on my work bench. I found out when I grabbed a small screwdriver out of a small cup and it had some tacky wet stuff on it. I cleaned it off and continued...next screwdriver had the same...then I checked the inside of the cup and it had several drips of epoxy (5-6?). Cup was directly under the large spout. I now loosen the caps a bit and for the larger spout, I turn it towards the long side of the can and have a small cup to catch it in case it still drips. No drips since. I attribute it to a low pressure weather system since I often see other signs around the same time (ex. water level in the toilet is a bit higher, counter automatic soap dispenser is dripping soap into sink).

Anyone else ever experience this with the pumps?
 
I stopped using pumps years ago. For large projects the pumping was a pain. For small projects pumping (partial pumps) just wasn't accurate. Easier to calculate the amount of epoxy needed for the area and target matrix and use a good gram scale to get the ratio just right.
 
I am about to buy some West Epoxy to replace hobby types. My main concern is about the fumes. Using two other brands including Gorilla I got strong headaches if I wasn't using it outside with strong winds.

I see some people using West Epoxy inside and I wonder if it leads to headaches.

I want to build inside year long here in Canada but I am conserned about toxicity for me and my 1 year kid.
 
I am about to buy some West Epoxy to replace hobby types. My main concern is about the fumes. Using two other brands including Gorilla I got strong headaches if I wasn't using it outside with strong winds.

I see some people using West Epoxy inside and I wonder if it leads to headaches.

I want to build inside year long here in Canada but I am conserned about toxicity for me and my 1 year kid.

Actually West epoxy has very little odor. I couldn't smell anything unless I got real close. Definitely less than that of hobby type epoxies.

I have used it twice, first to glass my Art Applewhite 54mm Stealth and I built my Wildman Drago - an all fiberglass rocket with it.
 
Nice Bullpuppy! :)

I just used West for the first time on my 3" Punisher build. Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I didn't like how loooong it took to set. At times it seemed to take 30+ minutes for the Fast hardener (except the one time I tested a small cup held in my hand...that one set in 15min and when it hardened, it happened very quick...liquid, liquid, goop, solid). For me, 30 min isn't Fast and I don't know when (if ever) I'll ever even use the Slow. In fact, I ended up using the Fast for the fillets and even then it took so long that even with a bunch of silica, I had some slow drips. I got so tired of the mess that for the final set of fillets, I used some 15 minute Hobby Epoxy and those fillets came out absolutely beautiful. Maybe I just need more time getting to know West.

BTW - Temps here were in the 70's and 80's.

YMMV.

More silica. Imagine thick peanut butter (unless you're allergic, then imagine soybean butter :puke: ) I used West with silica on my 5" Jart and did all 6 fillets at once with the rocket standing vertical to dry.

Adrian
 
More silica. Imagine thick peanut butter (unless you're allergic, then imagine soybean butter :puke: ) I used West with silica on my 5" Jart and did all 6 fillets at once with the rocket standing vertical to dry.

Adrian

Yeah, I was adding as much as I could...at a certain point it looked like it was becoming a clumpy mess and the texture was more like chunky PB/oatmeal. I'll give it another try next time, but I was surprised how much stirring was needed and was starting to think I was adding so much it was weakening the epoxy. Plus it wasn't pleasant how light and dusty that silica was considering you shouldn't inhale it. Not the most pleasant building experience for me and not a good thing to be doing in my living room with family around (likely the reason I didn't add as much as I should). ;)

Finally, isn't this process supposed to make it easier/quicker to apply fillets? I found it more work, a rougher finish and more potentially dangerous. YMMV
 
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Damn that's insane really??

Welcome to the Crazy Jim school of Rocketry... :dark:

Yeah, I was adding as much as I could...at a certain point it looked like it was becoming a clumpy mess and the texture was more like chunky PB/oatmeal. I'll give it another try next time, but I was surprised how much stirring was needed and was starting to think I was adding so much it was weakening the epoxy. Plus it wasn't pleasant how light and dusty that silica was considering you shouldn't inhale it. Not the most pleasant building experience for me and not a good thing to be doing in my living room with family around (likely the reason I didn't add as much as I should). ;)

Finally, isn't this process supposed to make it easier/quicker to apply fillets? I found it more work, a rougher finish and more potentially dangerous. YMMV

Yep, a good well ventilated work space is better. As for the rougher finish, I just sanded them a little to remove the rough spots. I'm not a speed or altitude junkie, so perfect finish isn't necessary for me. I just want strength. As was said, YMMV. Tim's got me hooked on Pro Line 4500 now. Black goopy crap like messing with tar (heck, tar might be easier). But beautiful fillets; but just two at a time again.
Good luck,

Adrian
 
...Pro Line 4500 now. Black goopy crap like messing with tar (heck, tar might be easier). But beautiful fillets; but just two at a time again.

+1. This and RocketPoxy are about all I use for external filets anymore. These pre-filled expoxies are so much easier to time/control.
 
My experience with West and fiberglass cloth is without a doubt the most useful aspect of my rocketry, outside of the hobby. I have made all kinds of objects and household fixes. I call it my own version of 3D printing, only with much stronger results.
 
So West System is pretty versatile. Although probably not the best choice for fillets per say because of the set times, but still can be done if you want to hang out. Its also good for assembly procedures where epoxy is needed...Correct?
 
So West System is pretty versatile. Although probably not the best choice for fillets per say because of the set times, but still can be done if you want to hang out. Its also good for assembly procedures where epoxy is needed...Correct?

Heck yes. It is the only adhesive I have bothered with for my last four rockets, including my L3. Varying the colloidal silica gives me huge versatility.
 
You guys as always have been very helpful. I know I can count you for honest answers and feed back. I'm just trying to narrow down my materials and find something I can use on everything.
 
West straight out of the can is best used for laying up fiberglass or carbon fiber and pre-wetting an area before using thickend epoxy.

The thickeners you add should be smooth and as thick as you need to do the job. I use their 406 for general purpose thickening. 410 is great for making a fillet that needs to be super light and easy to sand. I used that on a V2 for the fin fairings to the body tube to keep from making the back end too heavy.

For my typical mid power rocket I use west 5 min epoxy and I will use a thickener for the fin fillets with the 5 min epoxy too.

and for shelf life here is the blurb from he west web site:
Store at room temperature. Keep containers closed to prevent contamination. With proper storage, resin and hardeners should remain usable for many years. Over time, 105 Resin will thicken slightly and will therefore require extra care when mixing. Repeated freeze/thaw cycles during storage may cause crystallization of 105 Resin. Warm resin to 125°F and stir to dissolve crystals.
Hardeners may darken with age, but physical properties are not affected by color. After a long storage, verify the metering accuracy of the pumps and mix a small test batch to assure proper curing.


 
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