Saving simulation data in OR

I cannot get OR to save my flight configurations or simulations. It isn't that big of a deal because I can set them up again in a few minutes, but it is just a little annoying. It seems like I'm the only person with this problem...but if I'm not alone, how can I solve it?

which file format are you using to save your design files in? open rocket does not save simulation data in the roksim(.rkt) format (dunno if the format supports this). I believe that .ork is the only format (used by OR) to support saving sim data.
Rex

X2 on the Save As .ork file type. Took me a long time to realize this and needless repeating of configurations.

Great program.

You guys are onto something here. Thanks for the input.

I don't know why this is so hard for me, but for some reason I can't save as .ork. Is that because I originally saved the file as .rkt and the software can't convert the file?

Bottom line up front: if you are using Open Rocket to do your sims and get a rocket file in .rkt format, save a conversion of it in .ork format first and work exclusively in the .ork format.


I don't know for sure about RockSim, but for sure Open Rocket WILL save in .ork and .rkt file formats.

OR will recognize and open .rkt, but will not save any flight information that you add to the file in .rkt format. The only information that it will save between .rkt and .ork (or vice versa) and be useful to each programs is actual component configuration data.

Since the two programs RockSim and Open Rocket use different mathematical engines (albeit based on the same equations, but with different methods of defining the individual type and scope of variables for motors and flight) to do their calculations, flight data files are essentially gibberish to each other, and thus when you define file format, if it's not the same format as the host program generating the save file (.ork for OR), Open Rocket will not bother to save flight information for the other program (as it would be useless to RockSim, so therefore, why bother?).

Since OR is open source, I guess some enterprising individual could find a way to incorporate a module that would cross convert, and thus make RS/.rkt files fully useable by OR/.ork, but the simple fix of saving in .ork format is a pretty cheap, robust solution already in place.

try renaming your file ex. myrocket.rkt to myrocket1.ork also check to see where OR wants to save the file, windows gets upset if you try to save in the wrong place.
Rex

Thanks for the help. I had downloaded the free trial of Rocksim last month, so all of the questionable files had been opened by both Rocksim and OR. It appears that my OR files were "adulterated" by Rocksim. If I faithfully create a file it OR, and then run sims in OR, I can save the sim files. But the adulterated files cannot be saved, even with a new filename, as .ork files. Promiscuity, apparently, has its consequences.

+ 1 on what Rex said. I run RS and OR and if I open a .rkt file in OR and try to save as ork the rkt extension persists. In my case I am running a Mac and I simply rename the file with the .ork extension, then open the file and the save all data option now works. I only need to do this initially with any imported .rkt file and once renamed to .ork, OR has no issues with it past that point.

That was the trick! I had to change the .rkt extension to .ork in the Mac OS. It then worked flawlessly. Thanks!

BDB said:

It appears that my OR files were "adulterated" by Rocksim.

Click to expand...

Huh? How does Rocksim read and manipulate an ork file?

It doesn't. That's why I saved my files in the .rkt format in OR. And that is what caused the issue.

BDB said:

It doesn't. That's why I saved my files in the .rkt format in OR. And that is what caused the issue.

Click to expand...

Right, so any "adulterating" was the fault of OpenRocket, not RockSim. OR can read geometry entities in the rkt file, but that is about it. Don't trust OR to write back out a proper rkt file loaded with simulations.

rkt is Rocksim format. ork is OpenRocket format. Stick to that simple rule.

I read the OR documentation on file format:

"5.1.5 File format
An XML-based file format was devised for storing the rocket designs and
simulations. The use of XML allows using many existing tools for reading
and writing the files, allows easy extensibility and makes the files human readable."

My OR files look like compressed gibberish when opened in a text editor. Can any data gurus tell me how to make the ork file "human readable?"

OR doesn't care about what file extension is on the file. It doesn't even need one. OR will attempt to read the file through various interpreters; including previous file format versions. So from OR's perspective you can save ORK files as .rtk and RTK files as .ork or any other extension that you want.

The ORK file is a zip compressed file. If you unzip this file you will get a rocket.ork file that contains the XML.

On Linux and OSX you can use the 'unzip' command with the console.

For a GUI such as Windows Explorer and Finder you could add a .zip file extension to the ORK file and then double click. The .zip extension tells Explorer / Finder that is it a compressed zip file.

If this behavior is unwanted or if you folks have better ideas on how to manage this functionality I'd be happy to explore it with you further and create an issue for the development team.

Wes - Recently captured developer on the OR Team.

wcravens said:

OR doesn't care about what file extension is on the file. It doesn't even need one. OR will attempt to read the file through various interpreters; including previous file format versions. So from OR's perspective you can save ORK files as .rtk and RTK files as .ork or any other extension that you want.

The ORK file is a zip compressed file. If you unzip this file you will get a rocket.ork file that contains the XML.

On Linux and OSX you can use the 'unzip' command with the console.

For a GUI such as Windows Explorer and Finder you could add a .zip file extension to the ORK file and then double click. The .zip extension tells Explorer / Finder that is it a compressed zip file.

If this behavior is unwanted or if you folks have better ideas on how to manage this functionality I'd be happy to explore it with you further and create an issue for the development team.

Wes - Recently captured developer on the OR Team.

Click to expand...

Got it. Thanks.

wcravens said:

OR doesn't care about what file extension is on the file. It doesn't even need one. OR will attempt to read the file through various interpreters; including previous file format versions. So from OR's perspective you can save ORK files as .rtk and RTK files as .ork or any other extension that you want.

Click to expand...

If that is the intention then there is obviously a bug in OR, as in my case and in the case of BDB, OR will not save simulation data on a fie with a .rkt extension.

Yes. That was a bit short of me. A more elaborate explanation is needed to really lay it all out. But I don't have any more time right now than I did earlier, so if you'll bare with me I'll come back to this later when I have more time over the weekend.

I'm especially interested in:

+ 1 on what Rex said. I run RS and OR and if I open a .rkt file in OR and try to save as ork the rkt extension persists. In my case I am running a Mac and I simply rename the file with the .ork extension, then open the file and the save all data option now works. I only need to do this initially with any imported .rkt file and once renamed to .ork, OR has no issues with it past that point.

Click to expand...

wcravens said:

Yes. That was a bit short of me. A more elaborate explanation is needed to really lay it all out. But I don't have any more time right now than I did earlier, so if you'll bare with me I'll come back to this later when I have more time over the weekend.

I'm especially interested in:
[/COLOR]

Click to expand...

If you need me to run any tests, just let me know and I will publish the results back. Keep in mind it is Thanks Giving this weekend and I will be away until Sunday.

The fact that OpenRocket can operate at all with .rkt files is because of lots of hard work reverse engineering the file format with the goal of supporting primitive interoperability.

When you are in the save as dialog and change the output file type, it will automatically change the default file extension to be correct. However, if you've opened a file - with any extension - and do 'save' it will save it with the same filename using the same file format it was read with. The upshot is, if you rename a RockSim file to have the extension .ork, OpenRocket will open it just fine but it will save it using rocksim format - which doesn't allow for sim data.

The best that OpenRocket could do here to help, would be to open a warning box when the "save" path is executed - warning if the file is being saved using .rkt format. This dialog would have two buttons - "ignore" which will continue to save using .rkt format, and "save as" which will open the save as dialog allowing the user to specify the format and filename.

mpitfield said:

If that is the intention then there is obviously a bug in OR, as in my case and in the case of BDB, OR will not save simulation data on a fie with a .rkt extension.

Click to expand...

kruland said:

The fact that OpenRocket can operate at all with .rkt files is because of lots of hard work reverse engineering the file format with the goal of supporting primitive interoperability.

Click to expand...

No doubt, and my comment is just that, factual and not a shot at the product or anyone involved. I get it I am an IT consultant and know what is involved and do appreciate all efforts.

kruland said:

When you are in the save as dialog and change the output file type, it will automatically change the default file extension to be correct. However, if you've opened a file - with any extension - and do 'save' it will save it with the same filename using the same file format it was read with. The upshot is, if you rename a RockSim file to have the extension .ork, OpenRocket will open it just fine but it will save it using rocksim format - which doesn't allow for sim data.

The best that OpenRocket could do here to help, would be to open a warning box when the "save" path is executed - warning if the file is being saved using .rkt format. This dialog would have two buttons - "ignore" which will continue to save using .rkt format, and "save as" which will open the save as dialog allowing the user to specify the format and filename.

Click to expand...

I am following the procedure as outlined above, however this does not yield the outcome you describe. Essentially I save as an OR file but when you look at the file it is still a .rkt file and will not save simulated data, as per the original topic of the thread. My procedure is to then just rename the extension and then save again and the save all simulated data now works and it performs nominally.

mpitfield said:

No doubt, and my comment is just that, factual and not a shot at the product or anyone involved. I get it I am an IT consultant and know what is involved and do appreciate all efforts.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I wasn't really digging for appreciation since I didn't do any of that work, but some people don't realize that reverse engineering a file format is not trivial. The fact that it works in any limited way is really impressive. There's a lot that Rocksim can do that OR cannot (spill holes and fins on transitions come to mind) and that really frustrates people.

mpitfield said:

I am following the procedure as outlined above, however this does not yield the outcome you describe. Essentially I save as an OR file but when you look at the file it is still a .rkt file and will not save simulated data, as per the original topic of the thread. My procedure is to then just rename the extension and then save again and the save all simulated data now works and it performs nominally.

Click to expand...

I think you have found a bug. I did dork with the saving mechanism a number of years ago and might have messed something up. Would it be possible for you to send me the file and click-by-click description to reproduce? PM for email address, or pop on the openrocket-dev list for a little while.

Kevin