Slicing Out Liners?

In cleaning some of my BALLS motors I have a few liners (54mm-98mm, snap ring, phenolic) that just won't budge. Anyone know any good tricks for slicing them out or otherwise removing them? I tried hammering them out using a closure, but most of them crumpled or otherwise jammed before even wanting to move.

freeze the case?

I've used thick dowels on 29's to get them moving.

Either I had a ridiculous dream one night, or I read about others using log splitters in such a predicament. :confused2:

AlnessW said:

In cleaning some of my BALLS motors I have a few liners (54mm-98mm, snap ring, phenolic) that just won't budge. Anyone know any good tricks for slicing them out or otherwise removing them? I tried hammering them out using a closure, but most of them crumpled or otherwise jammed before even wanting to move.

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buy a steel bar, fairly small, slice the end to a point on one side and use it to cut your way down to the bottom. Just be careful no the gouge the case. I use a square bar(I can get photos if you want)

Put your forward bulkhead in (plugged) and fill the motor with boiling water. Let it sit for 5 minutes or so. Then try removing.

AlnessW said:

In cleaning some of my BALLS motors I have a few liners (54mm-98mm, snap ring, phenolic) that just won't budge. Anyone know any good tricks for slicing them out or otherwise removing them? I tried hammering them out using a closure, but most of them crumpled or otherwise jammed before even wanting to move.

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I just...I couldn't not.... I mean.....if you're gonna T it up like that....



but yea talk to this guy for help with this....

DizWolf said:

I just...I couldn't not.... I mean.....if you're gonna T it up like that....

Click to expand...

...jokes aside, thanks all for the advice.

tbonerocketeer said:

buy a steel bar, fairly small, slice the end to a point on one side and use it to cut your way down to the bottom. Just be careful no the gouge the case. I use a square bar(I can get photos if you want)

Click to expand...

I think this approach might work best in my scenario, do you mean slide a metal rod down the length of the liner, in between the liner and the case?

Just be careful not to scratch the casing, a brass rod might work if sharpened.

Sharpened PVC pipe might be less likely to damage the case.

AlnessW said:

...jokes aside, thanks all for the advice.


I think this approach might work best in my scenario, do you mean slide a metal rod down the length of the liner, in between the liner and the case?

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Yes.

How have you guys missed the patented (not) Alan Whitmore liner removal tool? Ask Preston Nobile, it will remove any liner. First you need an empty case of the same diameter, length optional. You will also need a spare threaded forward bulkhead, a block of wood with a hole in it big enough for a length of all-thread longer than both cases. Attach bulkhead to all-thread and put through both cases and block of wood. Line cases end to end until everything is snugged up. Put washers and a nut on all-thread and just crank down on the nut with a wrench. This will draw the liner into the spare case. You might have to stop and remove the parts and break the liner off piece by piece but my experience is usually once you get everything moving, you can just pull everything out. I have used this tool on 54,75,and 98mm snap ring and Aerotech cases. It's so simple I can't believe how long I went with trying to beat liners out. Don't try to cut them (Chris), this is much easier. Works best with an extra set of hands, but you can do it alone. Good luck!

Yes that tool is amazing, removed a torched liner out of a 75mm Kosdon case with ease after I pounded on it for days trying to remove it. Jim, maybe a picture of the setup would be helpful for the OP?

Preston

jimzcatz said:

How have you guys missed the patented (not) Alan Whitmore liner removal tool? Ask Preston Nobile, it will remove any liner. First you need an empty case of the same diameter, length optional. You will also need a spare threaded forward bulkhead, a block of wood with a hole in it big enough for a length of all-thread longer than both cases. Attach bulkhead to all-thread and put through both cases and block of wood. Line cases end to end until everything is snugged up. Put washers and a nut on all-thread and just crank down on the nut with a wrench. This will draw the liner into the spare case. You might have to stop and remove the parts and break the liner off piece by piece but my experience is usually once you get everything moving, you can just pull everything out. I have used this tool on 54,75,and 98mm snap ring and Aerotech cases. It's so simple I can't believe how long I went with trying to beat liners out. Don't try to cut them (Chris), this is much easier. Works best with an extra set of hands, but you can do it alone. Good luck!

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Courtesy of Ed at Tru-Core:

https://www.rocketsaway.com/trucore/Splitter.jpg

patelldp said:

Courtesy of Ed at Tru-Core:

https://www.rocketsaway.com/trucore/Splitter.jpg

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I think this is the tool I need, but might try the all-thread trick as well.

Used the tool several times, worked out well.

patelldp said:

Courtesy of Ed at Tru-Core:

https://www.rocketsaway.com/trucore/Splitter.jpg

Click to expand...

All the folks flying the larger research motors I've talked to told me I need one of these, and then shown me their's.

Handeman said:

All the folks flying the larger research motors I've talked to told me I need one of these, and then shown me their's.

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I guess I'm lucky....I don't use mine ever, and both my O and P liners fell out of the case without even touching them.

I just had a heck of a time getting an I600 liner out of a 38/720 case. I tried to use a dowel with a sharp edge that I placed on the ground and inserted the case resting on the liner then putting a block of wood on the other end I tapped the block. This didn't budge it so I left it sitting in WD40 for a week hoping it would soak and swell the liner as well as get in between the liner and case but it still didn't budge. So I used a thin small knife to try to lift it from the forward end and it was free but the aft end was not. I find that it is normally one end or spot that is stuck. Once I figured out which side was stuck I used the knife to slide it in and turn 90 degrees to break up the fused spot, then I used the dowel method and it popped out. The marks on the case are minimal but where it was fused is another story. Hopefully it will clean up better over the winter. If not I will be looking for a new case as I really like that I600.

That I600R is a ton of fun. I greased my liner slightly when I flew one earlier this year, pushed right out.

DizWolf said:

That I600R is a ton of fun. I greased my liner slightly when I flew one earlier this year, pushed right out.

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I normally grease mine well and thought I did on this one, it was greased but not likely well enough. I believe the main issue was not the lack of grease though. This was the motor I pulled from my BullPupp which was recovered some days/week later after sitting in the framers field with all that rain. And when you look at the area where it fused it almost looks like the typical aluminum oxidation.

Ah, despite my best intents, I have this issue from time to time without having the week long crop hostage situation to blame

Try wedging bamboo BBQ skewers in between the liner and case. You'll get quite a few in there and eventually the liner will split and separate from the case. Pull it out with long needle nose pliers. Works for me ever time.

I had A liner in a experimental case 38 mm that I tried just about everything WD-40, tried pushing it out with the forward closure, tried wedging something between the liner. I was able to break a little off and get a little out but the majority remained in the case. It had set for several years, I started messing around with it one day. Ran hot water through the case and the liner just pushed right out really easy.

Ran hot water through the case and the liner just pushed right out really easy.

Yes , alot of people seems to doubt the power of boiling water.

Heat works for me on my 76mm stuck liners. During the summer I will leave the motor inside a car for an hour and the liners pull free. I have a heat lamp I use if the outdoor temp is less than 90 degrees. Using heat the liners have come out extremely easy by pushing a forward closure thru the case. I'll try boiling water on small 38mm and 54mm cases.

DizWolf said:

That I600R is a ton of fun. I greased my liner slightly when I flew one earlier this year, pushed right out.

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Ha! An I600R would do as an igniter for the motors I was trying to clean... :wink:

Well, I finally finished my liner removals tonight. Again, all 54mm-98mm (1 of each size) remaining, and none of them would give up without a fight.
First, I soaked all 3 in hot water, but this only seemed to help marginally. Maybe I didn't use hot enough water, or ?

Starting with my 75/6000, I inserted a front closure, then hammered it with a wooden dowel. This seemed to crunch/mushroom the liner more than knock it free. Removing it in pieces with more hammering in between, the last 12" or so finally slid out. I would liked to have seen the condition of the liner (looking for burn-throughs, etc.) as opposed to destroying it on the way out, but I didn't care much anymore at that point.

On to a 98/17500. This one REALLY wouldn't let go! After probably half an hour of hammering the ever living #$%@ out of the closure with a dowel (same method described above) with lots of explicatives and getting more of the same results (pieces), I finally figured I needed a better method. I wanted to try slicing it out but also didn't want to scratch the casing, so I took a length of 3/4" PVC pipe and cut the end diagonally on a scroll saw. This formed a similar "liner removal tool" as mentioned in earlier posts. Inserting it in between the liner and the case, now we've got some results. It separated the liner nicely and left the case unscathed. After doing this a few times (on different sides of the liner) and lots more hammering, it finally popped out.

Rinse and repeat on my 54/2800.

Now for a follow-up question - how in the world can I avoid going through this ordeal after every launch? I've never, ever had anywhere remotely near this amount of difficulty getting liners out. So, for those whose liners "slide right out like a dream," what's your secret? More grease on them during assembly? Different grease? WD-40??

Wilson, my all thread method works very easy every time on any liner. I find it hard to believe you resorted to a hammer after my posting the method here. If you need more info, pm me your number and I can walk you through it. No offense to Ed Romani, but this is easier than his knife IMHO.

I've used the amazing liner removal tool Jim talks about. It works miracles

Good geometry goes a long way toward keeping you from cooking your liners....
If you don't cook them, they usually come out easily.

FredA said:

Good geometry goes a long way toward keeping you from cooking your liners....
If you don't cook them, they usually come out easily.

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Wilson ran my geometry in those motors, so I can attest that it's just fine. Perfectly concentric cores help too, he'll get there.

The source of cooking here is likely paper liners while loading up on metals. Wilson - like we talked about, I'll use over 1.5x of your metals loading here in your motor for January, so that's why I've asked that you ship me an XX liner, to avoid you having to go through this again among other things.

The allthread tool some have described here is what I was suggesting when we spoke at Balls - I'll usually use it to pop things free and then pound from there. Good call with the PVC, scratching a case is poor form especially around sealing areas and a steel splitter is cringeworthy in my opinion.

Ah, the memories of cleaning hardware...single use rockets are awesome

-sh