M2250 cstar

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

watermelonman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
2,597
Reaction score
10
I thought the M2250 cstar was supposed to be discontinued in favor of the M1830, but it looks like vendors are still carrying both. Are reports of M2250 problems greatly exaggerated, or what is the story?
 
Both are in production- one is a fast variant and the other the slow.

The 2250 ,if I recall correctly, requires a bit more assembly effort in that I think the grains need to be glued in.

I have not heard of issues with either motor. I will be using the m1830 for my L3 at Midwest Power assuming all goes to plan.
 
I thought the M2250 cstar was supposed to be discontinued in favor of the M1830, but it looks like vendors are still carrying both. Are reports of M2250 problems greatly exaggerated, or what is the story?

The M2250 is discontinued because its propellant is different from all other C* motors. There may be some stock still at dealers. We are out of grains in our inventory.

Jeroen
 
The M2250 is discontinued because its propellant is different from all other C* motors. There may be some stock still at dealers. We are out of grains in our inventory.

Jeroen

I still have one - is this a warranty thing, or anything i should know ?

Kenny
 
Last edited:
Ummmm. well.........umm......."caveat emptor"

I know of 3...this one was mine.

First and last flight of my 6in V-2.:sad:

13930335612_284d11878e.jpg
 
Ummmm. well.........umm......."caveat emptor"

I know of 3...this one was mine.

First and last flight of my 6in V-2.:sad:


View attachment 273386

Sounds like a manufacture recall is appropriate for this motor, if not already published...

I still say; "gluing grains in a certified motor should not be part of the assembly process, as some may get it right and some may not"... Any motor assembly process that exceed the norm of greasing O-rings, liners/casings, and dropping in the grains and liners should not be allowed certification... I also wonder how many failure reports have ben generated???

Putting on flame retardant underwear...
 
If Jeroen says they are being discontinued because the formulation is different than the rest of the C* motors, IMO that's a good (economic) reason to discontinue the reload. The motor manufacturer's have to make a profit on their motors or we won't have any......

If an L3 can't read and follow well written motor assembly directions, then I question his/her qualifications......especially in TRA where L2 and L3 members can roll their own......

I sure that most motor failures are not reported either to the manufacturer or the certifying authorities...... and it's manufacturer independent. This statement is backed by the fact that motorcato.org received less than 200 mess reports last year, and I witnessed al least half that number of failures so considering that ~100 (ROM) APCP motor failures were reported last year and the APCP motor production is probably ~>100K (ROM), the inferred APCP motor failure rate is <0.1% so what's the problem (if these number are correct)....:facepalm:

Bob :wink:
 
If Jeroen says they are being discontinued because the formulation is different than the rest of the C* motors, IMO that's a good (economic) reason to discontinue the reload. The motor manufacturer's have to make a profit on their motors or we won't have any......
All well and good...

If an L3 can't read and follow well written motor assembly directions, then I question his/her qualifications......especially in TRA where L2 and L3 members can roll their own......

I completely disagree... Manny L3 flyers, (TRA and NAR in particular) never and never will venture into research... In my opinion, adding a gluing process to the assembly process of a certified motor is adding a skill set that is wrought with the possibility of failure, due to using to much or to little glue, etc... Using glue properly is a learned skill and should not be first attempted during a certification attempt; "just my not so humble opinion"... Like I said before though, "I do not like the idea of a certified motor requiring glue to assemble".... Motors requiring glue should either be single use or the load completely assembled at the point of manufacture... This from a guy that rolls his own, at least 98mm and above, using glue sometimes...:smile:

I sure that most motor failures are not reported either to the manufacturer or the certifying authorities...... and it's manufacturer independent. This statement is backed by the fact that motorcato.org received less than 200 mess reports last year, and I witnessed al least half that number of failures so considering that ~100 (ROM) APCP motor failures were reported last year and the APCP motor production is probably ~>100K (ROM), the inferred APCP motor failure rate is <0.1% so what's the problem (if these number are correct)....:facepalm:
Well we no those MESS stats obviously aren't flawed...:point:
 
Last edited:
I used an M2250 successfully for my L3 and although the gluing of the grains (in my hotel room) was an extra step, I felt good that I had done it correctly and gotten that under my belt. The flight was perfect and I would not hesitate to use the M2250 again. It is an awesome motor.

_MG_0334 1.jpg
 
Feed, I respect your opinion immensely, and have known you for years. But I disagree with your line of thought here. If a person feels inadequate to assemble a motor per instructions, then just pick a different motor. One does NOT have to glue if one doesn't want to. Personally, I have no issues with the process, but I like assembling my motors! BTW, condolences on the green chuff what a video!
 
So you want to eliminate the CTI Pro75 K2000, L3200, M1300, M1545, M1675, M2020, M2080, M2245, M2250, M3100, and M3700 motors, and the CTI Pro98 M3400, M4770, N2200, N2501, N3301, N3800, N5600, N5800, M6400, N10000 and O3400 motors?

Why? Because except for the K2000, that's what would happened if these motors had to be shipped as an preassembled reload rather than a user assembled reload.

DOT-SP 10996 allows standard hazmat delivery for motors with single motor/grain propellant weight limit of 1.4 kg (Baby L impulse). A preassembled version of these larger motors would exceed this weight limit and would have to be shipped by exclusive truck at a cost of ~$3 per mile, and there would be no market for them as the cost of shipping would far exceed their value.

I don't think most hard core L3 folks would be very happy if this were to happen.

Bob






















































 
Fred, I respect your opinion immensely, and have known you for years. But I disagree with your line of thought here. If a person feels inadequate to assemble a motor per instructions, then just pick a different motor. One does NOT have to glue if one doesn't want to. Personally, I have no issues with the process, but I like assembling my motors! BTW, condolences on the green chuff what a video!

Thanks for the complement Jim... You and Bob may be 100% correct, as I have no negative statistics to back my opinion; "so it is just an opinion". I have no issue with the process for me personally either--have lots of experience using glued in grains, fast burning 2% aluminum blues in particular... Just not a fan of glue requirements for assembling certified motors...

Yep the green motor video is pretty cool, even if at my expense...:lol: That was one of Paul's K530GG motors he made while in Florida. I have two more of those motors and plan on mixing the individual grains, (one grain ay a time), with my on stuff as I don't trust them in completed K530GG configuration. That wasn't the first time one was slow to kite, just the worst documented result...:facepalm:
 
No it's not rocket science: "Gluing grains is a learned skill set, requiring practice, best perfected on some other process, rather than certified motor assembly"--just saying...

It cracks me up when people get so touchy about an Estes-level construction step just because it involves propellant. L3 certs require electronic ejection, which is way more involved to learn, calibrate, and master than coating a piece with glue and sliding it into a tube. The oversimplification of the motor process is a disservice; R45/curative is the right way to glue in grains, especially for flights with high g-loading, but I'm sure the reason this isn't done is so people don't have to "figure out equivalent weights." It's a ratio, like mixing epoxy on a mid-power rocket. Come on, people.

The amount of rudimentary skills people need to acquire to build a rocket to fly motor that "requires" gluing the grains (hint: it's good practice on every motor) far outweigh, both in number and complexity, the knowledge required to bond grains.

What it comes down to for me is this - you don't see Estes RTF-type rockets being sold in L2 and L3 size (though, to be fair, the slap-it-together fiberglass kit craze comes pretty close) because successfully flying a project of that size requires more engagement than simply purchasing something. How is it that we don't apply this logic to commercial motors? It blows my mind when I see people flying extreme projects (min dia N5800s) that don't know the FIRST thing about motor design, manufacture, or functionality. I rest my case on all the threads on here with people asking how to glue the grains on their N motor (I've yet to see a thread with someone asking how to glue the fins on their Ultimate Wildman).

I'm sure you'll vehemently disagree with me, but it's the mentality like the one you've posted that proliferates this problem. "Just saying"
 
It cracks me up when people get so touchy about an Estes-level construction step just because it involves propellant. L3 certs require electronic ejection, which is way more involved to learn, calibrate, and master than coating a piece with glue and sliding it into a tube. The oversimplification of the motor process is a disservice; R45/curative is the right way to glue in grains, especially for flights with high g-loading, but I'm sure the reason this isn't done is so people don't have to "figure out equivalent weights." It's a ratio, like mixing epoxy on a mid-power rocket. Come on, people.

The amount of rudimentary skills people need to acquire to build a rocket to fly motor that "requires" gluing the grains (hint: it's good practice on every motor) far outweigh, both in number and complexity, the knowledge required to bond grains.

What it comes down to for me is this - you don't see Estes RTF-type rockets being sold in L2 and L3 size (though, to be fair, the slap-it-together fiberglass kit craze comes pretty close) because successfully flying a project of that size requires more engagement than simply purchasing something. How is it that we don't apply this logic to commercial motors? It blows my mind when I see people flying extreme projects (min dia N5800s) that don't know the FIRST thing about motor design, manufacture, or functionality. I rest my case on all the threads on here with people asking how to glue the grains on their N motor (I've yet to see a thread with someone asking how to glue the fins on their Ultimate Wildman).

I'm sure you'll vehemently disagree with me, but it's the mentality like the one you've posted that proliferates this problem. "Just saying"

Well tell us how you really feel, whom ever you are...:eyeroll: IMO, the number of folks you elude to asking about gluing grains into there N motor supports my line of reasoning when gluing grains is required in a certified motor...Just Saying"...
 
Well tell us how you really feel, whom ever you are...:eyeroll: IMO, the number of folks you elude to asking about gluing grains into there N motor supports my line of reasoning when gluing grains is required in a certified motor...Just Saying"...

Ah, so you agree with me that there's a problem, then. I'm not claiming to have the solution, just saying there's no way the answer should be "yeah, this is beyond the consumer's capability level, let's design a workaround" especially when talking about L2 and L3-sized motors the consumer is obtaining within a system (the cert system) specifically designed to bring structure and thresholds to folks' capability levels within rocketry.

I'll never forget a few years ago at Balls there was a guy in a vendor's trailer with a 98 min dia rocket. He'd driven halfway across the country to fly, and all he wanted was to fly his rocket on a CTI N1100 because he liked long burns and was looking for altitude. When the vendor mentioned that the N1100 required grain bonding, the consumer hesitated before saying "nevermind" and asking for an alternative motor that didn't require this step. I happened to be cruising by and volunteered to personally help him glue the grains in - I hated to see fear of such a simple step get in the way of this guy flying what he wanted to fly. He ended up flying a red motor, I believe.
 
Ah, so you agree with me that there's a problem, then. I'm not claiming to have the solution, just saying there's no way the answer should be "yeah, this is beyond the consumer's capability level, let's design a workaround" especially when talking about L2 and L3-sized motors the consumer is obtaining within a system (the cert system) specifically designed to bring structure and thresholds to folks' capability levels within rocketry.

I'll never forget a few years ago at Balls there was a guy in a vendor's trailer with a 98 min dia rocket. He'd driven halfway across the country to fly, and all he wanted was to fly his rocket on a CTI N1100 because he liked long burns and was looking for altitude. When the vendor mentioned that the N1100 required grain bonding, the consumer hesitated before saying "nevermind" and asking for an alternative motor that didn't require this step. I happened to be cruising by and volunteered to personally help him glue the grains in - I hated to see fear of such a simple step get in the way of this guy flying what he wanted to fly. He ended up flying a red motor, I believe.

Good man! Too bad he did not take you up on the kind offer.
 
Ah, so you agree with me that there's a problem, then. I'm not claiming to have the solution, just saying there's no way the answer should be "yeah, this is beyond the consumer's capability level, let's design a workaround" especially when talking about L2 and L3-sized motors the consumer is obtaining within a system (the cert system) specifically designed to bring structure and thresholds to folks' capability levels within rocketry.

I'll never forget a few years ago at Balls there was a guy in a vendor's trailer with a 98 min dia rocket. He'd driven halfway across the country to fly, and all he wanted was to fly his rocket on a CTI N1100 because he liked long burns and was looking for altitude. When the vendor mentioned that the N1100 required grain bonding, the consumer hesitated before saying "nevermind" and asking for an alternative motor that didn't require this step. I happened to be cruising by and volunteered to personally help him glue the grains in - I hated to see fear of such a simple step get in the way of this guy flying what he wanted to fly. He ended up flying a red motor, I believe.

I think we are at an opinionated impasse...:(
 
Last edited:
Back
Top