Recommendation for a first MPR/HPR kit that can fly on F, G and H motors

I have a friend who flew model rockets with me many years ago and he would like to get back into the hobby with a kit that can fly F motors, but also accommodate G and H motors. Would appreciate any thoughts on what he should consider.

Thanks!

hard to recommend any particular kit w/o knowing what size and or price range to choose from. Estes, Loc, PML, mad cow, and Wildman all have kits that would fit the ticket.
Rex

Good point Rex,

I think he wants to stick with something basic and economical to get started, and a 29 mm motor mount is plenty big enough for what he wants to do. He can move on to 38 mm later.

ah, that does tend to limit the field a bit. an Estes psii builder kit or mad cow kit(standard) up to 2.6" diameter might be of interest. both companies have birds under $100. also consider Aerotech. best bet is to have your friend check out the various websites and see where things go from there, after all he is the one who has to live with it.
Rex

https://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/pro-series/rockets/009702-partizon-ps-rocket

On sale now!

I'm a fan of the LOC Graduator. Can fly on D12-3 to a baby I or if you like to fly a little slower a LOC 4 flys great on F-I motors put on a payload section (or dual deploy kit) and you have a good reasonably cheap L2 rocket also. Madcow also has great rockets around the same size.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
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Mega Der Red Max.

KenECoyote said:

Mega Der Red Max.

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+1 on the Mega Der Red Max. I used it two weeks ago to get my L1 certification. It's a very cool rocket, and when I cannot fly the big one you can build and fly one of the smaller ones.
Thanks
Joe Kipp

I built 2 Wildchilds a couple years ago and have really enjoyed them. They were my first fiberglass kits. 1500' on an F22 or 3500' on a G64. It's the most fun you can have without a waiver.

I have seen a wildchild fly on an E18.
Rex

I'm a big fan of the Estes Pro Series II line for beginner MPR.

The AeroTech line is also a good starting place. But I recommend changing to a motor retainer and foregoing the clip if you do.

So far I am not a big fan of the Estes 29mm BP motors. But I also prefer my RMS motors for price vs punch too.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I passed them along to Dave and he will be picking one, and hopefully joining this forum soon.

I have a problem with buying and building a MPR F & G rocket and intending to use it fly H motors. Not that it can't be done, I fly my Estes Leviathan on 3 & 4 grain H motors a lot, under the right conditions. Most of the people that want to do that are talking about a L1 cert flight. That means they have no experience flying HPR. They really don't understand the difference in power from a mid sized Hobby line G motor and a H motor, even a baby H. They don't understand the differences in altitude that will create and what that really means for their flight and recovery. It sound really easy.

It's easy to talk about 800 ft on an F motor, 1200 ft on a G motor and 2000 ft on a H motor, but until you've flown your rocket with it's chute and decent rates on your field and walked the recovery walk, you really don't understand the differences. One of the things you learn as you move up in power, is how to "fly the field". You learn how the rocket size, chute size, motor size, wind direction, wind speed, winds aloft, field size, field shape, field owner, and neighboring land owners all play together to determine what and how you fly.

I have no problem with someone flying a HPR motor in a MPR rocket, but if you buy and build the MPR rocket assuming you will be able to fly it on HPR motors, you could be very disappointed. I recommend you buy a kit with the intention of flying it on the recommended motors. As you gain more experience you can decide if you want to push that rocket or build another when you use larger motors.

Embrace the journey, it's part of the fun!

Isn't this exactly why we have DD? Estes and AT kits fly phenomenally on H motors of many sizes. And a lot of people fly them on I200s. My Scion will fly on an I200 the first time I have a high enough ceiling.

It's as much about construction as it is kit design. I just say you need to be sure of your construction skills first.

Kruegon said:

Isn't this exactly why we have DD? Estes and AT kits fly phenomenally on H motors of many sizes. And a lot of people fly them on I200s. My Scion will fly on an I200 the first time I have a high enough ceiling.

It's as much about construction as it is kit design. I just say you need to be sure of your construction skills first.

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I think what you said is exactly what I was talking about. Fly the field. You said you would put a I200 in the Scion when you have a "high enough ceiling". I'm assuming you are including a lot of local field knowledge in that statement. How high will the Scion go with an I200? 3K, 4K, or 5K? What are the winds aloft? 5 - 8 mph surface, 15 - 20 mph @ 3000 ft. 22 - 28 mph @ 6000 ft? That would be typical at BattlePark. Assuming a Scion with a I200 would be near 5,000 ft, that would be a lot more than 5 times the drift of a rocket deploying at 1,000 ft. Again, I'm assuming you know how to fly the field and account for the longer drift from the higher winds aloft speeds.

I guess the bottom line is, just because the rocket is built to handle the larger motors doesn't mean it should be flown on those larger motors, unless the field permits it. Unfortunately, you might loose a rocket or two finding that out.

My Scion is using a drogue-less DD. with the weight of the AV bay, I'm estimating about 3k to 3.2k on the I200. My problem this past weekend was the ceiling was too low. As in the clouds. We only had about 2300' of flying space. It was quite windy, about 15 mph at 300'. My entire drift was less than 300' from the pad deploying main at 200'. DD has allowed me to break 3k on some rather small fields. I have had to realize that even a small drogue can cause a significant drift in higher winds. Not everyone will agree with drogue-less decent, but it's working well for me. Learning DD was one of the best things ever for advancing my rocketry. It really opened up the HPR world to me. I fly my Scion on F-H so far. And I'm very happy with the results.

My Partizon and my Argent fly great too, but the Scion is the best overall balance. My Leviathan is already starting to take form. And my Ventris is only waiting for the Jolly Logic Chute Release. That payload section just isn't easily conducive to DD.

as your rockets(and chutes) get larger you Will be wanting to deploy higher up. I have data showing that a 36" chute can take up to 100' to deploy and get things slowed down to landing speed.
Rex

Most definitely. I wouldn't deploy below 200'. Normally I deploy at 300' or more. I only dropped it down to 200' due to wind.

My short experience has led me to advise most new users of DD to start closer to 500' and see how it lands. I've already learned that deployment altitude depends greatly on the rocket and chute. Since I only have one altimeter, I have to change mine a lot in the field for different rockets.

Kruegon said:

Most definitely. I wouldn't deploy below 200'. Normally I deploy at 300' or more. I only dropped it down to 200' due to wind.

My short experience has led me to advise most new users of DD to start closer to 500' and see how it lands. I've already learned that deployment altitude depends greatly on the rocket and chute. Since I only have one altimeter, I have to change mine a lot in the field for different rockets.

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We've been collecting this kind of deployment data for mid-power flights using AltimeterThree the last couple of weeks for Chute Release. It's pretty interesting.
So far pretty light rockets, but like the sims, they slow down quickly. I don't think I've seen one take 100'+ to slow down yet, but we'll have to try some heavier rockets at October Skies next weekend.

Notice after the pointer labeled "Deployed," the rocket is going as slow as it's going to go...

Seconded on the Graduator, or for Dual Deploy, the Hi Tech is a pretty decent kit.

LOC Precision has a couple (29mm) kits with recommended motors of F-I.. These kits are constructed to handle the level 1/motors yet can still fly nicely on mid power motors.

John Beans said:

We've been collecting this kind of deployment data for mid-power flights using AltimeterThree the last couple of weeks for Chute Release. It's pretty interesting.
So far pretty light rockets, but like the sims, they slow down quickly. I don't think I've seen one take 100'+ to slow down yet, but we'll have to try some heavier rockets at October Skies next weekend.

Notice after the pointer labeled "Deployed," the rocket is going as slow as it's going to go...

<snip>

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Nifty...so you'll be at October Skies? I'm trying to free up some time to go, this will add to the motivation to go. Your Chute Deploy thing-a-magig looks very promising!