Can someone explain how motor casings and all that work?

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runty

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i've only ever built rockets where you just pop the motor in, make sure you have retention, and let it fly.

say you have a 38mm tube...can you just put a 38mm motor in there? or do you need a 38mm casing, and the 38mm motor goes in the casing?
 
There are a couple of choices for motors. One, as you mentioned, is single use motors. In these, the casing, or outside of the motor, is disposable. For larger motors in particular, manufacturers offer motor casings/hardware (the outside) and then sell reload kits (propellant). After the initial outlay for the motor casing, the cost per flight is less, and you usually have a lot more choices for propellant. Aerotech and CTI each make numerous kinds/colors.
 
It should be added that up thru 54mm, Aerotech reloadable motors must be assembled, whereas CTI reloads simply slide into the casing.

Aerotech also makes LMS (loadable motor system) that are single use, and DMS (disposable motor system) that are single use and, as the name states, disposable.

If you can go to a club launch with a vendor on site, they can show you what they have and what your options are. Or get fellow club members to show you.
 
so if i'm understanding this right, a casing goes into the motor tube, and then after that, an appropriate motor goes into the casing.

either that, or the casing comes with the motor, and you just treat it like a regular low-power motor and pop it in. is that all correct?
 
so if i'm understanding this right, a casing goes into the motor tube, and then after that, an appropriate motor goes into the casing.

either that, or the casing comes with the motor, and you just treat it like a regular low-power motor and pop it in. is that all correct?

No, assemble motor into case, then into rocket. Look at the CTI website https://pro38.com/ or the AeroTech website https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/
Look them over good. lots of info on each site.

Adrian
 
A rocket motor consists of several parts, even the ones you just "pop in." There is a nozzle, a propellant grain or grains, a casing, a delay grain, and an ejection charge with a forward closure (or end cap). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Model-rocket-engine.svg

Black powder motors like Estes sells in hobby stores come already assembled and ready to slide into the motor tube. When done, you throw it away.

For ammonium perchlorate composite propellant (APCP), the parts are essentially the same, but they vary in the amount of assembly that needs to be done. For one thing, they burn too hot to go into a cardboard casing like a BP motor. They go into a metal casing.

For a CTI (Cesaroni) motor, the propellant, delay grain and O-rings are preassembled inside a plastic liner. The nozzle/rear closure sticks into the aft end of the liner; the delay grain and ejection charge stick into the foreward end of the liner.

Once you drill out the delay grain to get the desired delay time, you slide the entire thing into a metal casing. The forward closure protrudes from the forward end of the casing; the nozzle protrudes from the aft end. You slide a metal, threaded closure onto the casing over the nozzle and tighten it down.

This entire assembled motor is slid into the motor mount of the rocket, and then some sort of retention device is placed over the aft end of the motor.

With Aerotech, Loki and other motor vendors, you do more of the assembly yourself, at a savings of cost. Aerotech motors come as loose parts in a bag, and you have to grease the O-rings, slide the propellant grains into the liner, affix the O-rings, add the delay grain and ejection charge, etc. This now resembles the CTI reload, and is slid into the metal casing with a threaded closure.

motors AT and CTI.JPG

In either case, you assemble the motor into the casing before it goes into the rocket. It does not go into the rocket until it is ready to fly. And for G impulse on up, you do not put the igniter into the motor until the rocket is on the pad, pointed up, and any electronics are armed and ready.
 
Dang, Bill, you took the shortcut while I was laboring on my wordy description and making pictures. :eek:
 
You do need the case... Although I have a friend that has a couple of times forgot to slide the load into the case (Cesaroni--too easy I guess) and it certainly makes for nice launch pad fireworks ;)
 
There are several videos on how to assemble reusable motors. Just a couple of the many:

Here's an Aerotech reload assembly video:

[YOUTUBE][video=youtube;g0GsbQS7GKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0GsbQS7GKI[/video][/YOUTUBE]

Here's a CTI reload video:

[YOUTUBE][video=youtube;NFdfgcPP2pQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFdfgcPP2pQ[/video][/YOUTUBE]

They skip the step of drilling out the delay with the tool, but you get the idea.

ETA: Sorry about all the extra space and junk text. I'm not sure how to get rid of that.
 
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Aerotech also makes LMS (loadable motor system) that are single use, and DMS (disposable motor system) that are single use and, as the name states, disposable.

What is the difference - single use, LMS, and DMS? They are all used once and then thrown away. Why 3 names? I used reloads for so long, I am now out of the loop on disposables....
 
DMS is the new HPR single use, H through M.
LMS is a single use that isn't assembled, presumably to avoid HAZMAT shipping charges.
They also market single use and econojet, which I tend to think of as 18-29mm D - G's
 
What is the difference - single use, LMS, and DMS? They are all used once and then thrown away. Why 3 names? I used reloads for so long, I am now out of the loop on disposables....

LMS is like a RMS motor, but includes a single use case.

DMS is a fully assembled (except for the ejection chagre) single use motor.
 
never used CTI, is that truly how all of them work? it comes pre-assembled and you just stick it in after the delay is set up?

Well, mostly for the 58mm and smaller. The 38mm reload has its own aft closure so it's not a separate piece to screw on.
 
The 38mm is CTI's red-headed stepchild. :wink:

BTW, to the OP, you may be wondering what people mean when they talk about drilling the delay grain. Larger motors come with a "maximum" delay, and you use a tool (basically a drill bit) to remove some of the delay grain to get the delay time down to where you want it. For example, if you buy a motor with a 14 second delay, and you know from your sims that you want a 10 second delay, then set your delay drilling tool to -4 and drill it out. It removes 4 seconds worth of delay grain.

There are also times, when using dual deployment, that you don't want any ejection charge at all. In that case, you cut open the end cap, pour out the black powder, and stuff some wadding in there. I usually use motor back up for my DD rockets, but last week I had an I125-10, and my optimal delay time was actually 14 seconds (long-burning motor), so I did not want the motor charge to fire while I was still accelerating.

All of this may sound confusing, but it's like driving a car or using a computer--the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
 
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