24/40 reload question NOOB

Hello,

My kiddos and I have been launching up to D size motors on mostly Estes and some way older rockets. After researching the
Aerotech RMS 24/40 hardware option, there does not seem to be any advantage in price for the reloads than the standard Estes plug-n-play motors. Is this just for motor options, for messing around with different reloads? Being on a tight budget and a Scout leader, I was hoping to find a more economical way to step our rockets.

We have a couple of well built LOC rockets with 29 mm motors and will be buying hardware for those, as the 29 mm reloads seem to have great options and savings.

Thanks for any info on the 24mm size route.

Brian

I think there is definitely a savings. Here are 2 links from the same vendor. The Estes E9 is $16.79 for a 3pk and the Aerotech E-28 is $16.69 for a 3pk. At first, it sounds about the same. But the E9 has 27 Newton Seconds of impulse (35% E) and the E28 has 40 Newton Seconds (100% E). The Aerotech is just about 50% more impulse than the Estes. So quite literally, more bang (or whoosh) for the buck.

I own (2) 24/40 cases and mostly fly the E28s as they do well for my rockets and fields. Other than the hassles of reloading (versus single use) they are great. The other advantage is APCP (Ammonium Perchlorate Composite Propellant). Single use APCP are much more than reloads. And black powder (most Estes) have much lower average impulse, which means they can't handle heavier rockets or higher winds than the total impulse equivalents made from APCP.


E9: https://www.hobbylinc.com/estes-e9-6-model-rocket-engines-3-24mm-standard-rocket-motor-1674
E28: https://www.hobbylinc.com/aerotech-e28-7t-reload-kit-24:40-single-use-motor-3-e-reloadable-model-rocket-engine-52807

Welcome to the forum!

I don't think that the 24/40 offers a price advantage on a pure $ scale (good point in the above post). I use it because of it's versatility - I can build up to a small F motor and put it in a D-sized mount. I have some rockets that really need a 24 mm F, so in that respect it's perfect. Same with the CTI reloadable 24mm motors. Being able to fly an F240 (woosh!) or even a G in a 24mm mount is fun, but not cost effective!

If you just want one or two flights, some of the Aerotech single use motors might be a better deal.


For motor cost savings, try AC Supply for 40% off, or Belleville Hobbies for 41% off. Belleville also stocks Quest engines.

https://www.acsupplyco.com/estes/engines.htm
https://bellevillehobby.com/engines/standard-engines

Ah. Hobbylinc really does have good prices on reloads. That changes the equation!

I really like the 24/40 loads. lots of fun and that F39 rips! I just picked up a 24/60 case so I need to get some F35's, looks like a real nice motor and it fits in a standard E motor rocket. when building any estes kit I grind down the top tang a little on the metal retainer so a 18/20, 24/40, or 24/60 will fit. if you leave it full length it usually will hit the motor case, just make sure it doesn't stick in past the cardboard motor block. wildman has great prices on hobbyline reloads, especially if you're in the wildman club.

caveman said:

After researching the
Aerotech RMS 24/40 hardware option, there does not seem to be any advantage in price for the reloads than the standard Estes plug-n-play motors. Is this just for motor options, for messing around with different reloads?

Click to expand...

The 24/40 are my favorite loads. The advantage is that these AP reloads pack more impulse in a smaller size and are way more cool than the Estes black powder motors. The Estes E motors are just stupid long and too heavy. The White Lightning (W) is still the best flavor in my opinion - loud and smokey. I'll never forget my first AP motor. "OMG. This is awesome!"

Put an E18w in an Estes Phoenix and enjoy! The smoke and noise from such a small motor will impress you right away. And the Phoenix will absolutely scoot.

Adrian

Another advantage - Estes Es have to ship HAZMAT at $28.50 per order. Also, the Estes Es seem to have a pretty high CATO rate due to the fragility of BP. As others have mentioned, versatility is a big deal - there are a few flavors of motors, and the 24/40 can fit in anything even with the older D-size only mounts. You can drill delays to dial in for any rocket.

I will say that it takes a lot of flights to pay off the hardware, so if you tend to lose rockets the single use APCPs might be a better idea. I love the E20-7w single use - it costs basically the same as an E9, but is D sized and turns in great flights on Estes rockets designed for the D12-5 like the Mean Machine, V2, and others.

Excellent advice all, thank you! Love the experience of this forum, I've been reading for a while but just now joined. We will definitely pick up a 24/40. Seems like the 24/60 is very specific and only needed on larger rockets with 24mm mounts. Since we have 4 29 mm mounts in our 4 larger birds, we'll stick to that for larger loads.

I picked up an older collection of rockets and they came with a few 29/120 and 29/180 reloads by Aerotech. Do these last a while in the package? We live in NM so it's dry nearly year round, so I'm thinking we'll try them anyway. Just don't want any catastrophes.

Just a couple things about this & that, in no particular order...

1) You only need one set of closures if you are buying 29/120 and 29/180 casings
2) The yard sale section usually has some good deals on used casings In fact, see https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?128830-150-Rocket-kits-for-sale-Small-High-power and https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?128814-My-Biggest-Score-yet!!!
3) These reloads are not interchangeable with the 29/40-120 casing!
4) If you have any H or higher reloads, make sure someone who is L1 is flying them
5) Some of the G reloads for the hobby 29/40-120 casings are pretty inexpensive - I find this to be very versatile
6) 29/180 motors are usually the cheapest - you can get a 29/180 and a Reload Adapter Set (RAS) and fly 29/120 reloads in the same casing
7) If there is a local club, someone may be willing to loan you a casing for some flights

I'm sure someone else will address the age of the reload issue

75Grandville said:

6) 29/180 motors are usually the cheapest - you can get a 29/180 and a Reload Adapter Set (RAS) and fly 1, 2, and 3 grain 29 mm motors in the same casing

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Not quite. The RAS only works in the 120+ casings. The 29/60 (something like .75 grains) and 29/100 (1 and a half grains or something weird) won't accept the RAS system. That's not at all to say I don't like the system, though. I use it all the time to fly 240's in my 360 case, and the G77R in the 120 case is a grea alternativve to the oop G71R. I highly recommend it to anyone looking to do HPR.

edit: The standard grains are 1.75", the grains in the 120 case are 1.5", and the ones in the 60 case are 1.25", so the spacers won't fit right.
info from here: https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/resources.aspx?id=6

It would make sense if the spacers would in all the cases, not sure why they don't. The point about being able to borrow cases is a great one though! I've borrowed cases a couple times, and I find rocketry folks are always the first to offer help. When it's needed

Nate

caveman said:

I picked up an older collection of rockets and they came with a few 29/120 and 29/180 reloads by Aerotech. Do these last a while in the package? We live in NM so it's dry nearly year round, so I'm thinking we'll try them anyway. Just don't want any catastrophes.

Click to expand...

With older reloads, the delay may become unreliable. I would pick up the appropriate reload delay kit (RDK) and trash the old delays.

caveman said:

Excellent advice all, thank you! Love the experience of this forum, I've been reading for a while but just now joined. We will definitely pick up a 24/40. Seems like the 24/60 is very specific and only needed on larger rockets with 24mm mounts. Since we have 4 29 mm mounts in our 4 larger birds, we'll stick to that for larger loads.

I picked up an older collection of rockets and they came with a few 29/120 and 29/180 reloads by Aerotech. Do these last a while in the package? We live in NM so it's dry nearly year round, so I'm thinking we'll try them anyway. Just don't want any catastrophes.

Click to expand...

This is a very timely question, as I just flew my first composite motor. 24mm composite motors really add a level of excitement to your D-size rockets. Here's a comparison video showing the difference between a D12-3 and an Aerotech single use E20-7W in the same rocket. What the video doesn't show is the Aerotech motor is noticeably louder and cooler sounding than the black powder motor. I have some fear of losing rockets where I fly so I haven't invested in reloadable hardware yet, but I probably will for the 29mm kits I have waiting to be built.

[video=youtube;ChWt3Rum7WI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWt3Rum7WI[/video]

Great advice all. Thanks for the video too, that pushed me over the edge and I'll pick up a reload kit. I am going to pick up the Dr. Rockets 60, 100 and 180 cases in hopes of getting my L1 cert soon, then the real fun and empty wallets begin!

If you haven't already bought the 60 and 100 cases, I'd highly recommend the 29/40-120 case. It's got a lot more loads, 2 Es, 3 Fs, 3 Gs, and a high power G all in one case with no spacers required. The reloads also cost a bit less- $10 Gs from Wildman with no hazmat

Nate

nute said:

If you haven't already bought the 60 and 100 cases, I'd highly recommend the 29/40-120 case. It's got a lot more loads, 2 Es, 3 Fs, 3 Gs, and a high power G all in one case with no spacers required. The reloads also cost a bit less- $10 Gs from Wildman with no hazmat

Nate

Click to expand...

The F loads for the 29/40-120 are Hazmat loads. The E and G (except for the G138) loads are not.

Thanks for the heads up Nate and AlphaBrewer. I went with the 29/180 and 240 casings for Level 1. The smaller 29 mm rockets might just get an adapter and the 24mm casing for lower flights.

Special thanks to Sean CZ Brat and 75Grandville for the links to really well priced loads for the 24/40 system, and single use motors. Now I just need to buy a 24/40. How did this turn into a 29 mm thread anyway! Hmmm.

Really appreciate the pointers as a noob. Even after spending time going over the numbers and options, the goal can get convoluted in a hurry, and it helps to get steered in the right direction. Or the wrong one, but at least a direction! Hoping that there will be a local vendor that carries reloads in the AT systems to avoid many Hazmat fees.

Brian

Yup, I remember when I was first getting into reloads all the letters and numbers were just too overwhelming. But asking questions is the best thing to do

Nate