Sneak Peak: Jolly Logic's Easy Dual Deployment

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There are a number of challenges to designing a chute release, not the least of which is that it needs to survive an explosion without letting go, then very reliably let go when it's supposed to. And it needs to work with a wide variety of chutes and rockets.

I think as time passes, folks who sit and think about things like this will appreciate that the aspect that looked so questionable about Chute Release—that it uses common rubber bands—was actually at the heart of the aha moment that allowed its production. When I'm designing a product I go through thousands of schemes and sketches over many months, almost all of which fail on some count (complexity, cost, reliability, manufacturability). But one of the things I'm pretty good at is being able to realize when a design has broken through and satisfied all of those diverse performance objectives. For Chute Release, it was the moment that I realized a rubber band could both limit tension as well as adapt to a number of chute sizes that did it. Small thing, but there it is.
 
ksaves2 said:
Are you kidding? I was surprised you were able to get it down to the size it's at now. I've had two CRs survive three mishaps nicely. Kurt
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, mine bit the dust today. Rocket flew into the sun, so we don't know what happened, except that from the descent time, it probably happened at apogee. No obvious damage to the case, just nothing inside. Need another for September, but someone at the launch said they are sold out??

Jim

IMG_0825.jpg
 
JimJarvis50 said:
Not crispy at all. It just got whacked somehow and opened up.

Jim
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Doesn't look burned to me either. What does the rocket look like? If it happened at apogee, should have been a long time descending.
I suspect it smacked the outside of the sustainer hard or if the ejection charge smashed it into a bulkhead. The case had to hit something.
Too bad. Kurt
 
ksaves2 said:
Doesn't look burned to me either. What does the rocket look like? If it happened at apogee, should have been a long time descending.
I suspect it smacked the outside of the sustainer hard or if the ejection charge smashed it into a bulkhead. The case had to hit something.
Too bad. Kurt
Click to expand...

The rocket is fine (albeit with accumulating battle damage over time). Would have been nice if it didn't land in a tree. This is my stock (but slightly enhanced) Big Daddy that flies on 2-grain 54mm motors. So, it has some nose weight. I'm not sure how this rocket falls without a chute, having never done that, but my guess is that it would fall very fast. It was up in the air for quite a while, which is why I think the problem was at apogee.

Jim

IMG_0827.jpg
 
We're only temporarily sold out. Didn't quite have enough to make it until next production batch is ready. Production as we speak, back in stock after this week.
 
Ok so I will admit I was late to the party but in my defense, I really wanted one of these things when they were first announced. I flew my first Chute Release today in my H170 Metalstorm powered Squat to somewhere in the 2k range. I used a large 32" Top Flight chute which trip-folded to a nice neat bundle. The Release was set to 500' because I wanted a little bit of time under laundry and to make sure there was enough altitude for the chute to fill. Man alive what a perfect flight. Matter of fact it was easily one of my most memorable flights. The ease of prep, the nice neat chute bundle I was able to get and the performance was incredible. The chute popped out with authority around 500' just like I expected. This thing is a game changer for me. I can't wait for a less windy day to do it again with a J340M.
 
grouch said:
Ok so I will admit I was late to the party but in my defense, I really wanted one of these things when they were first announced. I flew my first Chute Release today in my H170 Metalstorm powered Squat to somewhere in the 2k range. I used a large 32" Top Flight chute which trip-folded to a nice neat bundle. The Release was set to 500' because I wanted a little bit of time under laundry and to make sure there was enough altitude for the chute to fill. Man alive what a perfect flight. Matter of fact it was easily one of my most memorable flights. The ease of prep, the nice neat chute bundle I was able to get and the performance was incredible. The chute popped out with authority around 500' just like I expected. This thing is a game changer for me. I can't wait for a less windy day to do it again with a J340M.
Click to expand...

That's fantastic and good flight report! Glad it worked well for you. I use mine ALL THE TIME! It's definitely a product that I'm so happy I spent my money on.
 
I think Jolly Logic is a prime example of taking an age old hobby and reviving life to it.
This is obviously, one of thee most technological break trough's in our hobby in a long time.
Not only does it do away with black powder loads for main, but also tracking devices.
I've lost so many rockets to the tree's over 46 years, it would have paid for it's self, if it was available since 1970.
It will only pay for it's self faster now that rockets are more expensive, and it will allow me to fly some of the rockets I'm building that would never be possible to fly at my field.
Knowing when I hit the launch button, I would never recover it. I am confident now, I will to get more than one launch from my builds.
Thank You Kindly Mr. & Mrs. Beans for your contribution to our hobby, that I'm sure will see many decades of use.
 
For me the allure is the simplicity. When I started out a while back flying a Loc Onyx, I always dreamed of making it dual deploy without altering the characteristics of the rocket. Sure I could have added an Ebay and a longer main chute payload but then it's not an Onyx anymore and the prep time increases dramatically. Now I can go back to the simple kick the tires and light the fires type rocket and still be able use a larger motor that would be "unwise" popping up top. The other cool thing I did today that I wouldn't have done otherwise it use a much larger chute which makes for nice soft landings. Good stuff Mr. Beans!
 
Handeman said:
Finally ordered one with a yellow protector. Should have done this for the last flying season.
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Yeah, my chute release broke the tether at Bong this summer. The black protector really helped it stay hidden...:facepalm: Not that I had much of a chance of finding it in the Bong weeds anyhow. But I've ordered new red AND yellow protectors for the winter flying season.
 
jd2cylman said:
Yeah, my chute release broke the tether at Bong this summer. The black protector really helped it stay hidden...:facepalm: Not that I had much of a chance of finding it in the Bong weeds anyhow. But I've ordered new red AND yellow protectors for the winter flying season.
Click to expand...

I replaced my tethers with sturdier Kevlar. Basically the same as John's, just thicker cord that I feel better using.
 
Sheeeeeeoooooot!, Wish I could remember the thread I saw here where the discussion was using the JLCR in a minimum diameter rocket. A fellow showed a nifty preparation where the JLCR was sandwiched in the middle of the chute and the rubberband
looped around a couple of times. I'm thinking the chute canopy is inadvertently acting as "padding" here. The tether was looped on a canopy line in this case. Also I have a tendency now to put the restrained chute inside the chute protector rather than have the JLCR hold the protector around the chute.

Heck, once the ejection charge flash is over, the protector is not needed anymore. Just put the chute protector further down the harness so it falls off after everything is blown outside the rocket. Kurt
 
wighty44 said:
This was the first thing I did before using it. I also lengthened the tether.
Click to expand...

I think that's what I need to do also. I flew my CR the 4th & 5th times in my 4" Nike Smoke this weekend at OS, and the first flight the main was out at apogee (~3000'). Found that the rubber band had broken. Also meant the pin was lost since the CR duly let it go at the programmed 500'. :p Thankfully there's a spare in the box so I was able to fly it the next day. What I think happened is that the larger chute (52") I had bundled probably had its thickest part farther from the point where I had the CR's harness attached to my shroud lines at the quicklink. So I think when things came out the tether probably tried to pull the CR away from where it wanted to be, and in my case the rubber band failed first. For the next flight I tried harder to keep the CR closer to where the shroud lines come out but it's tricky. So I do want to lengthen the tethering harness by a few inches, and I'd also like to tether the pin to the CR just to ensure I don't lose this one (I'll probably re-use the supplied tether for that purpose, hoping its long enough for that).
 
Our club (BARC) just had a contest with the Estes Big Daddy rocket - stock & unlimited. My entry was an unlimited version that used the original NC & BT (modified w/ CF) and FG fins. Using a CTI H200 motor the rocket went to 3,207 ft. The recovery system included Chute Release with a 30" chute. It landed 200 ft from the pad. Chute Release made this type of flight possible...

BD Comp_082516.jpg
 
grouch said:
Cool. I love little rockets with too much power.
Click to expand...

I do too at times. But if one wants to find them, need to have a reliable tracking system the longer they remain out of sight. A small rocket that gets high enough can drift quite a ways falling with a small drogue or drogueless to a a point
where it's out of sight when the main deploys. I've done it over 11 times and the tracker is what saves the day. Keep that in mind when selecting a motor. If you are depending on a visual to pick it up on descent you better not keep it
out of sight too long. Kurt
 
Agreed. I fly my Onyx on a steady diet of H250's, H128's and H180's. it wouldn't be possible without my Marshall.
 
ksaves2 said:
Sheeeeeeoooooot!, Wish I could remember the thread I saw here where the discussion was using the JLCR in a minimum diameter rocket. A fellow showed a nifty preparation where the JLCR was sandwiched in the middle of the chute and the rubberband
looped around a couple of times. I'm thinking the chute canopy is inadvertently acting as "padding" here. The tether was looped on a canopy line in this case. Also I have a tendency now to put the restrained chute inside the chute protector rather than have the JLCR hold the protector around the chute.

Heck, once the ejection charge flash is over, the protector is not needed anymore. Just put the chute protector further down the harness so it falls off after everything is blown outside the rocket. Kurt
Click to expand...

This one?
 
I'm going to verify function on it the weekend of the 4th. First chance I'll have to use my CR. I'm really looking forward to it.
 
woferry said:
I think that's what I need to do also. I flew my CR the 4th & 5th times in my 4" Nike Smoke this weekend at OS, and the first flight the main was out at apogee (~3000'). Found that the rubber band had broken. Also meant the pin was lost since the CR duly let it go at the programmed 500'. :p Thankfully there's a spare in the box so I was able to fly it the next day. What I think happened is that the larger chute (52") I had bundled probably had its thickest part farther from the point where I had the CR's harness attached to my shroud lines at the quicklink. So I think when things came out the tether probably tried to pull the CR away from where it wanted to be, and in my case the rubber band failed first. For the next flight I tried harder to keep the CR closer to where the shroud lines come out but it's tricky. So I do want to lengthen the tethering harness by a few inches, and I'd also like to tether the pin to the CR just to ensure I don't lose this one (I'll probably re-use the supplied tether for that purpose, hoping its long enough for that).
Click to expand...

It's been said before but I'll say it again: John Beans / Jolly Logic is awesome! :headbang: I got home last night to find this sitting in my mailbox:

IMG_2539.jpg

The slip inside was done about an hour after the above post (no other contact from me), and received the next day. More large bands, another set of pins and a long length of the cord so I can make longer tethers. Totally unexpected, though as soon as I saw the black box I knew what it was in relationship to. :) Thanks a bunch!!!
 
woferry said:
It's been said before but I'll say it again: John Beans / Jolly Logic is awesome! :headbang: I got home last night to find this sitting in my mailbox:

View attachment 303672

The slip inside was done about an hour after the above post (no other contact from me), and received the next day. More large bands, another set of pins and a long length of the cord so I can make longer tethers. Totally unexpected, though as soon as I saw the black box I knew what it was in relationship to. :) Thanks a bunch!!!
Click to expand...

That is just plain fantastic. John is a stand up guy, and guys or companies that stand behind their products as much as he does is a rare thing these days.
 

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