Spray Paint Issue - Crackling, and bubbling

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sheepdog

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Helllo Folks,
Have built and painted over 70 kits the past few year and recently just had this happen for the first time.
I was building the ESTES Bull Pup and I used the Rustoleum's Painters touch ultra cover 2 Paint and Primer
all in one Gloss WHite. I have used this particular paint a lot with great results. When I came back to check on it after the first coat it looked like a map of the moon.
The paint had cracked and bubbled covering about half of the bounty tube. I have no idea what could have caused this except maybe extreme humidity.
I tried to sand it down but it was impossible. I did not do anything out of the ordinary from a prep stand point.


Anyone know what could have caused this?

Thanks:sad:
 
I get that when I don't let the paint dry completely. I think I read that it is the solvents in the newly applied paint disolve the "mostly" dry existing paint in a differential manner softening some but not all the existing paint. This results in cracks and bubbles. Maybe the extra humidity you mentioned prolonged the "completely" dry time? It sure is hard to remove once it happens! FWIW, I wait 48 hours in Colorado between paint sessions. That is probably longer than necessary but I HATE the crackle finish...
 
Sweet mother of Ch%$..........PEOPLE ,read the goddam can.( I always wanted to to lose it on this thread) but really ,the can says it all, and I don`t give a SH^% if its Krylon ,or Rustoleum ,it remains the same.

Spray the primer ,or what ever ,wait an hour-2 hours ,then spay your finish .......done.

Call me a smart ass..fine ,but I never have these problems I keep hearing about......over and over.(lacquer withstanding....which is even easier and faster)

Spray your primer coat ,perhaps 2 if needed .wait 10 minutes between coats ,wait an hour or two ,then spray your finish coat (gloss or otherwise)

Remember ,do it all within 1-2 hours ,or wait 24-48 hours.

The can says re coat within 1 hour (give or take an hour)

Rustoleum primer and Krylon play together just fine.

Just read the can ,and stay within the times given.

NOW....lacquer, that`s easy.

Cheers

Paul T
 
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Helllo Folks,
Have built and painted over 70 kits the past few year and recently just had this happen for the first time.
I was building the ESTES Bull Pup and I used the Rustoleum's Painters touch ultra cover 2 Paint and Primer
all in one Gloss WHite. I have used this particular paint a lot with great results. When I came back to check on it after the first coat it looked like a map of the moon.
The paint had cracked and bubbled covering about half of the bounty tube. I have no idea what could have caused this except maybe extreme humidity.
I tried to sand it down but it was impossible. I did not do anything out of the ordinary from a prep stand point.


Anyone know what could have caused this?

Thanks:sad:[/QUOTE

Dear friend ,

Since these paints are very forgiving ,as in humidity and temps really don`t cause much concern ,except for drying/curing< I suspect something else has gone wrong or user error.

I hope you may fix the problem ,but alas......sounds like a bastard.

I wish I had a better solution ,but hey ,sh^%$ happens.

Keep me posted.

Cheers

PT
 
Sweet mother of F$$^% Ch%$..........PEOPLE ,read the goddam can.( I always wanted to to lose it on this thread) but really ,the can says it all, and I don`t give a SH^% if its Krylon ,or Rustoleum ,it remains the same.

Spray the primer ,or what ever ,wait an hour-2 hours ,then spay your finish .......done.

Call me a smart ass..fine ,but I never have these problems I keep hearing about......over and over.(lacquer withstanding....which is even easier and faster)

Spray your primer coat ,perhaps 2 if needed .wait 10 minutes between coats ,wait an hour or two ,then spray your finish coat (gloss or otherwise)

Remember ,do it all within 1-2 hours ,or wait 24-48 hours.

The can says re coat within 1 hour (give or take an hour)

Rustoleum primer and Krylon play together just fine.

Just read the can ,and stay within the times given.

NOW....lacquer, that`s easy.

Cheers

Paul T

Absolutely Ditto! READ and FOLLOW the Can RECOAT times. Regardless of the paint, primer or Combination used your finish will come out just fine.
 
I will add ,that if I need to clear coat ,I will wait several days before doing so (at least 3-4 days)

Also ,if you use Rustoleum/Painters touch 2X primer for plastic, you should wait 5 days before recoating with your final finish.

Cheers

Paul T
 
Sweet mother of Ch%$..........PEOPLE ,read the goddam can.( I always wanted to to lose it on this thread) but really ,the can says it all, and I don`t give a SH^% if its Krylon ,or Rustoleum ,it remains the same.

Spray the primer ,or what ever ,wait an hour-2 hours ,then spay your finish .......done.

Call me a smart ass..fine ,but I never have these problems I keep hearing about......over and over.(lacquer withstanding....which is even easier and faster)

Spray your primer coat ,perhaps 2 if needed .wait 10 minutes between coats ,wait an hour or two ,then spray your finish coat (gloss or otherwise)

Remember ,do it all within 1-2 hours ,or wait 24-48 hours.

The can says re coat within 1 hour (give or take an hour)

Rustoleum primer and Krylon play together just fine.

Just read the can ,and stay within the times given.

NOW....lacquer, that`s easy.

Cheers

Paul T

That advice hits the nail squarely on the head.
 
I get that when I don't let the paint dry completely. I think I read that it is the solvents in the newly applied paint disolve the "mostly" dry existing paint in a differential manner softening some but not all the existing paint. This results in cracks and bubbles. Maybe the extra humidity you mentioned prolonged the "completely" dry time? It sure is hard to remove once it happens! FWIW, I wait 48 hours in Colorado between paint sessions. That is probably longer than necessary but I HATE the crackle finish...

Helpful answer. Other answers? Not helpful. Kind of rude. The guy has built a few, so give him a break. This forum is filling up with rage beasts who "just can't take one more comment like that" Ugh.
 
Sweet mother of Ch%$..........PEOPLE ,read the goddam can.( I always wanted to to lose it on this thread) but really ,the can says it all, and I don`t give a SH^% if its Krylon ,or Rustoleum ,it remains the same.

Spray the primer ,or what ever ,wait an hour-2 hours ,then spay your finish .......done.

Call me a smart ass..fine ,but I never have these problems I keep hearing about......over and over.(lacquer withstanding....which is even easier and faster)

Spray your primer coat ,perhaps 2 if needed .wait 10 minutes between coats ,wait an hour or two ,then spray your finish coat (gloss or otherwise)

Remember ,do it all within 1-2 hours ,or wait 24-48 hours.

The can says re coat within 1 hour (give or take an hour)

Rustoleum primer and Krylon play together just fine.

Just read the can ,and stay within the times given.

NOW....lacquer, that`s easy.

Cheers

Paul T

Here is the deal, like I said I have used this paint on over 20 rockets with NEVER EVER an issue. This paint has the primer included so you do not have to prime the surface prior to painting. I painted it and it went on fine. I left it to dry all night and when I came back the next day. It looked like the map of the moon. So while I understand your criticism I have built enough rockets to know what the heck I am doing. This has never happened before. Hence the question.
 
Kevin, there are many possibilities that could have contributed to this happening. A bad can of paint, humidity, a missed step in prep, and, the list goes on. I have this happen from time to time, using familiar methods, and materials. All you can do, is sand it down, and start over. While you might be in a rush to sand, and fix the botched paint, it's best to wait until it dries, which could be up to quite a few days. Always remember, if you can still smell it, it isn't dry. Depending on how many coats, and how heavy the coats, you might start sanding, and have to stop if you get to an uncured layer.

David
 
Wow, been on this site for over a year and have submitted various questions, tips ,etc and the experience has enhanced my growth as a fan of model rockets, Both
building and flying. Obviously this question hit a nerve with some of you, My suggestion would be if you want to insinuate someone is stupid you may want to look in a mirror prior to calling someone out on a site where we are all invited to come to for suggestions and help . Maybe the only stupid questions are the ones not asked because of responses that I have received to this issue. I am sure if someone new read the response I received they would think twice about asking
a question.


What a shame had more faith in site until now.
 
I have been a long time lurker here and it is a pity that this was the thread to finally make me post.
In the first post it clearly stated Paint and Primer all in one, no mention of multiple coats and an indication of considerable previous experience with this paint and painting in general.
How that got mis-interpreted to telling people how they really need to read the can and follow recoat times is beyond me.
I would think that there was possibly something on the body tube (oil from your hands, CA kicker or some other substance) that reacted this time with the paint,
Unfortunately all that can be done is sand it back and go again making sure to prep the rocket carefully maybe giving it a good clean with alcohol (not from the glass you need after all the sanding)
Best of Luck with the next coat,
Vance
 
Thank you Vance for a civil suggestion...I have retraced all my building steps to insure I did not do something that could have caused this
and can not figure it out. I always wipe my rockets down with a slightly damp clean cloth and let it dry prior to painting.
I will chalk this up as an anomaly as this has never happened before. I have used this same can of spray paint on another rocket
with no issue.

Thanks

Kevin
 
I haven't had that experience with that paint and I'll say I haven't read the can and my prep isn't that great so I would say bad can too. Also I've had an issue with Bondo spot putty not playing nice with the all in one, so have decided to go away from all in one.
 
Normally I would agree with the other posts, it is usually a case of in-compatibility or not waiting between coats. That does not seen to be the case here.
Maybe something on the rag you used to wipe with? (Waxes/oils from laundry dryer sheet?)
Other than that, have to agree, bad paint. I see where you state you used it on another model, maybe it has gotten 'old'? Needed extra shaking?

What ever the cause, seems like a fluke. Sand'er down, buy a new can and start over.
Just as a side note, after sanding, might want to give it a coat of filler primer to get rid of any crinkles you miss sanding it down.
 
Normally I would agree with the other posts, it is usually a case of in-compatibility or not waiting between coats. That does not seen to be the case here.
Maybe something on the rag you used to wipe with? (Waxes/oils from laundry dryer sheet?)
Other than that, have to agree, bad paint. I see where you state you used it on another model, maybe it has gotten 'old'? Needed extra shaking?

What ever the cause, seems like a fluke. Sand'er down, buy a new can and start over.
Just as a side note, after sanding, might want to give it a coat of filler primer to get rid of any crinkles you miss sanding it down.

Hi terry,
Thanks for the response, yep chalking this up as a one off. maybe the stars were not aligned when I painted it. No loss, just an ugly rocket.

Thanks
 
Hi terry,
Thanks for the response, yep chalking this up as a one off. maybe the stars were not aligned when I painted it. No loss, just an ugly rocket.

Thanks

It'll look a lot better sitting on the pad with a big ole' woosh generator sitting in the business end. :)
 
Helpful answer. Other answers? Not helpful. Kind of rude. The guy has built a few, so give him a break. This forum is filling up with rage beasts who "just can't take one more comment like that" Ugh.

Indeed ,and for that I do say sorry for my rude answer ,and do apologize .......! If you know me ,I have never been a beast or bastard nor a know it all.

So to the good fellow who posted ,I do feel like a total ass.BUT still ,the directions on the can do tell all.

That said ,I think I may know the problem ,and will post my results right away.

Your humble servent ,and usual nice guy;

Paul T
 
Now then ,about the wrinkle problem.

I sprayed some yellow paint (Krylon....although in this case ,it probably does not matter) on some body tube, that was primed with flat white Rustoleum 2x primer.

I then masked off two portions of the primed and yellow painted BT ,waiting 48 hours.

On one portion ,I sprayed a top coat of gloss black (again Krylon gloss black) over the yellow ,in light coats ,applying 3 coats until a gloss finish was achieved.Perfect.

On the other portion ,I layed down a heavy first coat of black gloss ,and did indeed get a wrinkled effect .

I did so with another brand of paint ,and got the same results.(Rustolem professional)

So I must gather from these results ,that over applying and adding too thick a first coat ,that the carrier (the solvent in the paint) is re-desolving the first coat ,and causing the wrinkle effect you see.This does make sense, as the solvent in the spray paint is attacking the primary/first coat.

Lesson learned ,nice light coats ,at least the first and second coat .But it makes sense ,that applying a heavy coat of paint ,with the solvent contained in that paint ,is basically a paint stripper (apply paint stripper to a painted finish ,and you will indeed get the same effect)

Now then ,I have been in a hurry many a time ,where I will prime (rustoleum 2x white primer) and wait 90 minutes ,then apply my top coat (Krylon ,Rustoleum ,whatever) and never have a problem ,but doing so in the time frame given (plus or minus and hour)

When it comes to decals and finish coats ,this gets tricky ,but usually time is the key word.

Whenever I apply a clearcoat (Krylon my favorite ,but use the non yellowing UV stuff ,both gloss and flat)I wait at least ,and I mean at LEAST 72 hours before doing so.You really want the underlying paint to be somewhat dry ,but notice, I didn`t say CURED! Enamel paints don`t really fully cure for months (2 to 6 actually)but who wants to wait that long (that`s why lacquer is so nice ,but that`s another topic ,as well urethane ,but pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur ,and deadly without proper gear)

So then ,gloss coat done ,wait 24 hours ,apply decals ,wait 24 hours ,then apply a gloss coat.If going scale ,and if needed ,apply a flat coat.

As a scale plastic model maker ,and air brush painter ,many of the techniques are use for both our hobbies.

FUTURE floor finish ,great stuff to lay down decals ,but perhaps a new subject.

Painting with rattle cans can be most rewarding ,and usually successful ,just read the can ,give yourself and hour either way ,don`t be in a rush to re coat ,and NEVER EVER use cheep masking tape !!! Use 3M Blue stuff to fill in ,and TAMYYA tape for crisp edges.


Again ,I do sincerely say SORRY, for being an ASS in my reply.

BUT ,if I see this question about paint again ,I won`t be so nice (LOL)

Questions....PM me.


As always

Cheerio


Paul (usually a nice guy)T
 
Just saw this thread & as a info note:

I was a professional painter for 28 yrs [or as we used to say "coating specialist"] I did warranty work for Sherwin Williams also...figuring out & fixing other painters screw ups on large commercial jobs. I was the guy they called to figure out what went wrong. The kind of stuff i'm referring to is like: paint not drying fully after 3 weeks...incompatibility between primers & finish coat, even though the factory recommended a particular "system" as it's referred to. Things do go awry, they do listen & eventually fix those issue's. They have to or we buy some other product.

The biggest one I remember is when SW tried to eliminate 1 step in auto factory auto painting. [Yes SW is a major supplier to OEM]
Instead of zinc coating then primer, then finish...someone came up with a super primer supposedly eliminating the first step.
Remember all the Chevy trucks & vans in late 80's especially 89's where the finish paint [especially blue's and silver gray's] peeled and exposed the grey primer after 2-3 years? That super primer was not comparable with the finish and it only showed up after several years.....if you knew a bout it...you got a free paint job. I did 4 yrs after buying a 89 work van. Dealer tried to worm out of it, I insisted they call they factory...guess what? I got a new free paint job 4yrs after buying the damn thing & so did everyone else I knew & told. I drove the dealer nuts!

Let me go over a recent incident that happened to me.

Punisher project, Rustoleum Painter's Touch, 2 full coats primer, wet sanded 400.
Let sit 5 days. Lightly dusted primer again. Orange gloss finish coat immediately...like 10 minutes [all paint used was Rusto]
Second coat finish 45 minutes later. Put in hot sun 90+degrees for 3 days straight to cure.
Let sit for 3 WEEKS!

Thought I was finished, then noticed a flaw on 1 side of 1 fin. It drove me nuts& decided to fix it.
I wet sanded the 1 side, washed with warm water, let sit overnight. Did not sand rest of rocket.

Next day shook can for 5 minutes and began to spray entire rocket from top to bottom.
My second pass hit that damn fin, 10 seconds later as I was coming down from top with another pass, I saw the fin begin to wrinkle horribly. This was a light coat, very light.

STOPPED & began to think.
why did it only wrinkle the sanded fin?
I have had other bad experiences with this, after waiting 2-3 weeks and final coating over both primer [sanded] and sanded finish. By the way no paint smell, it was cured.

Darn it all, I did every thing possible to avoid this and knew for sure it was not me.
Sunny day, humidity at 48% temp at 76, painting in shade.

So I found the number on the can and called Rusto..... after listening to the normal customer service bs and being offered a free can of paint, I demanded to talk to a chemist/tech person from the company. He called me back hour later, I told him my background, we discussed other issues, [which I think he was feeling me out to see if I actually knew what the hell I was talking about] Told him what happened.... We left at this and he said he would look into it & call me back in a few days.

He did.

There is no REAL explanation other than the newer formula's can be prone to this phenomena. Hot solvents cutting into the surface of previously painted item. I had exposed the undersurface by sanding the topcoat and messed with the linking of blah...blah...blah. That's why it only effected the sanded area not the other. I know all about platlet interlinking while drying and time frame required for things to work & was NOT buying it!

Ok then explain why in the past same thing happened to unsanded top coat......no answer there!
But we did come up with a solution as whacky as it might seem. More primer!

I went back after waiting another week, sanded the mess off, re-primed the top coated...no issue.
So I decided to test this screwball theory:
Next 2 rockets I painted. did not wait the 5 days required to re-coat if done after 2 hrs.

Here's how that went:
Primed . Wet sanded next day. Let dry couple hours. lightly primed again, just enough to get full coverage.
Waited 1 hour finish coated . No issues
I had a sheet of scrap G-10 for control and did everything the same EXCEPT lightly priming again. It wrinkled horribly.
Also did one with finish coat after 2 days...but lightly re-primed & immediately top coated. No issues.

So that's what I have been doing and it seems to work....for what it's worth.
Good luck one and all.

By the way he did mention others have been bringing up issues also, but not that many. I retorted.."well most folks don't have the gumption to go through all the hassle to talk to someone like you or don't even know who to ask for" . Bet they ones that did were professionals in the field and wouldn't take no for an answer. He agreed and said he would look into this further as they really did want customers to be happy........we'll see what happens in the future. I have seen them take action in the past if it was proven there really was a problem.

There is...they know it...now we wait.LOL:grin:

PS call & complain when you have a problem. It is just statistics to big corporate entities, if enough folks call and make them aware, they will do something about it.
 
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Indeed ,and for that I do say sorry for my rude answer ,and do apologize .......! If you know me ,I have never been a beast or bastard nor a know it all.

So to the good fellow who posted ,I do feel like a total ass.BUT still ,the directions on the can do tell all.

That said ,I think I may know the problem ,and will post my results right away.

Your humble servent ,and usual nice guy;

Paul T

Sod, that was a good response, I respect that.

I know in times us noobies (talking me not the author) can ask repeatative questions but I learn so much from the knowledge that is on this forum and though it may exhaustive for some of you to regurgitate those same long posts it is appreciated and it does get payed forward. So thank you - too many to list but in this thread particularly Jim & Sod etc..

I too am on a mission for professional looking rockets - typically not to worried until I started helping 4-H so if I can't do it, how can I ask a kid to make it look good.

Now the butt kissing is done lets go fly fly some rockets dang it. :)
 
Indeed ,and for that I do say sorry for my rude answer ,and do apologize .......! If you know me ,I have never been a beast or bastard nor a know it all.

So to the good fellow who posted ,I do feel like a total ass.BUT still ,the directions on the can do tell all.

That said ,I think I may know the problem ,and will post my results right away.

Your humble servent ,and usual nice guy;

Paul T

Apology accepted....but I am still chalking this up as an anomoly...it was a first coat. And as I explained I have bult over 70 rockets in the past few years and this has never happened. But lets all just move on and get out there and launch rockets after all that's the bottom line enjoyment for us all.

Kevin
 
Apology accepted....but I am still chalking this up as an anomoly...it was a first coat. And as I explained I have bult over 70 rockets in the past few years and this has never happened. But lets all just move on and get out there and launch rockets after all that's the bottom line enjoyment for us all.

Kevin

Anomolys indeed my friend ,things do happen ,sometimes you get it right ,sometimes you get it wrong and it works ,and sometimes it goes wrong.Do you know how many I have mixed enamels and lacquers and lacquers with enamels and all was well.How may times I clear coated enamels with lacquer clear coats ,and all was well and glossy.

Of course ,when I may ,I love to use lacquer ,it`s just too easy ,but in my situation, that limits me to a limited palette of colours ,but as I build military and scale stuff ,no probs.

That`s what I love about airbrushing ,I can use enamels and thin them with lacquer ,usually 50/50 and get a beautiful finish ,then top coat with whatever I wish to.

I have come to a point ,within that last year ,to paint my rockets as something to fly ,as opposed to an object that I am scared to fly.......to worried about it getting it buggered up and scratched up.It did take a long time to let those things fly and take flight ,and not worry about the time it took to make it look so nice.If you know me and the rockets I built ,at some point ,they were show pieces ,and static things to look at .

Point is ,paint it and fly it and have some fun ,and don`t do like me ,but build it and fly it.

Now when I build rockets ,I power paint ,usually painting an entire HP rocket in one session ,prime ,and final finish....and if it f%$## up....I don`t care anymore ,cause nobody cares !


Cheers

Paul T


,
 
I thought I'd add in my experience to see if I can save some others trouble. In no way can I say I have the background and knowledge that Jim has (he wins hands down!), but I can relay what I've experienced.

-I've had crackled paint when I've painted a rocket with Krylon, finished and launched, had a bit of damage, fixed and then tried to repaint with Rustoleum (had horrible crackled paint and had to sand it all down to bare surface and start over). Same happened with Rusto painted and then coated later with Krylon. Really horrible wrinkling and crackling. I now often mark the bottom of rockets with "R" or "K" to denote which paint I had used and haven't had issue since.

-I wasn't happy with the paint on a stock Estes Skywriter, so I sprayed it with Rustoleum Filler Primer (primer coat I've used on all my rockets) and the primer crackled like mad. Drying time was not a factor here since it was over the original Estes paint. It was so bad that it's basically a write off. I've also had the same when trying primer over a repair area...now I skip the primer on repairs.

I think a factor may be how heavy the new coat is...the heavier it is, the more it allows the solvents in the new paint to eat into the old and do odd things. I would guess the solvents are different, explaining how one paint can react differently than the other. As other have alluded to, perhaps Kevin had some residue or coating on the bt or maybe it was just a bad can of paint (I've had that as well).

Also IMHO while some people's experience may show that some things are fine, paint formulas seem to always be changing, so suddenly what worked fine for years may no longer be the case as manufacturers come up with new advanced formulas (ex. 2x, Maxx). Blame Murphy. :wink:

BTW - I've likely painted 70 rockets this year.
 
I had the paint crackling on me on my recently built Estes Storm Caster. Looks like what pellet gun shots do on glass windows. Lucky for me it was just in a 2-3 spots in a straight line, so that's the spot i placed the decal the Storm Caster decal. It's a long decal, goes along the whole length, so it worked out okay. if it wasn't for that, i would've had to wait for the paint to dry completely, sand, and repaint.
 
I never use primer and wait till paint is tacky to apply other coats and apply clear coat 24 hrs later. I have never had this problem or any other type of problems.
 
Had an Initiator get ruined today due to crackling.

Older rocket that I was fixing. Had cleaned and rough sanded older paint, fixed dings and nicks. Three coats of primer, well dried and sanded between coats.

I think I made my first coat of Rust-oleum 2x Gloss Apple Red too thick as I was compensating for grey primer. Should have done a lighter initial spray and a thicker follow up 5 minutes later.

(Yes I purposely painted the red over grey primer because I wanted to compare the effect to red over white primer on a different build)
 
Just encountered crackling. But I did not apply the second coat within 1 hour or after 48 hours. My bad. I will try sanding the crackling after 48 hours to insure complete dryness. Have two other canisters to paint that I will do "as instructed". Fingers crossed.
 
Old thread,... still hoping for quick advice:

Apogee Zephyr plastic nose cone. Several months ago I applied adhesion promoter, sandable primer, white primer, new can of Painters Touch black gloss. Looked pretty good. Was just about to clear coat and noticed the black gloss was spotty toward the top of the NC. I used a different (older) can of Painter's Touch Black Gloss to touch it up. Waited a day and then clear coated,... bubbles everywhere - beyond just where I touched up. WTF. Looks terrible. I suppose because the Painter's Touch was an old can OR somehow not completely dry (it's humid, but I had a fan directed on it)?

I've since sanded it down to try to minimize the bubble areas. Some areas are down to the white nose cone. Most areas still show black paint.

Do I need to sand it all the way down to the nose cone plastic, get rid of all paint, and start from scratch?

Or can I start with sandable primer and go from there?


IMG_3524.jpg
 
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