Ideal technique for packing Shock Cord and Parachute

Is there an ideal way to pack Shock Cord and the Parachute/Parachute Cord to ensure optimum deployment? I ask out of curiosity on various people's techniques. Thanks in advance!

What I do is fold the chute in half, then in half again. I bring the body, nose cone & chute as close together as practical on my table, and sort of Z-fold the chute lines on top of the quarter-folded parachute. Then I do the same for the as much of the shock cord as I can. I fold the point of the parachute over the lines & cord, then fold the two sides over as well. From that point, I roll it down. You'll hear folks refer to this (or variations of it) as a "burrito wrap", which is largely applicable. I let the exposed shock cord drop into the tube first, then insert the roll. The roll should be small enough that it fits in freely, but not so tight that it can't pop apart. I'd suggest trying it, then blowing through the business end of the rocket to simulate deployment. If it doesn't come out with a good puff, it can't move freely. That'll also allow you to see how readily it unfolds.

I try to avoid wrapping the lines around the parachute. Folding them inside the chute keeps them from getting tangled and protects them even more from the ejection gasses.

kj

Agreed. I used to wrap around the chute (Estes instructions used to say to do that), but found that it is less reliable and leads to more deployment failures. If you do wrap anything around the chute, do it loosely - though I wouldn't do it at all anymore.

For mylar chutes, some people use talcum powder to keep things from binding.

There are some good videos on YouTube to show how to wrap chutes.

Purkeypilot said:

Is there an ideal way to pack Shock Cord and the Parachute/Parachute Cord to ensure optimum deployment? I ask out of curiosity on various people's techniques. Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

What size?

Regarding wrapping or not wrapping shroud lines around a packed chute:

In the past I pretty much always packed my chutes such that the shroud lines were folded up inside the chute - this applied to lots of different chutes styles (and therefore various types of packing methods).

Then I got a couple of FruityChutes (elliptical) and Spherachutes. For these I followed Fruity's guidelines and method (https://www.fruitychutes.com/help_for_parachutes/how_to_pack_a_parachute.htm). As you can see the shroud lines are wrapped around the bundled chute in this method. I gotta say, these chutes always pack MUCH cleaner and smaller than any other type of chute in my quiver, and they always deploy very well. I've since adopted the basic concept when packing my other types of chutes. It's reliable and works great.

ymmv, s6

I'm assuming you're asking about low power, so for me what works on those nice "plasticky" Estes chutes are:

When transporting or storing, I lay parachute flat, then do a loose and awkward looking fold tip down until it is a wide ugly looking affair (like a nightmare burrito with lines coming out on the side downwards), then I fold those sides inward and stuff loosely into the rocket. When I get to the field, I then open the chute, add Baby Powder (talc, not flammable cornstarch), and loosely fold the way Estes notes. The whole point is of this is to prevent the chutes from holding their folded shape (which would have been more resistant to opening after being stuffed in the rocket). The first steps mentioned are basically the opposite of the Estes instructions for just that purpose. Have had great success with this and usually the only issue is not enough wadding fusing the chute or something else.

So basically make sure the chute has a different fold until you're ready to pack and use baby powder....and don't forget the wadding/dog barf!!! :wink:

Thanks for all the knowledge and advice all! I JUST got my 12 pack of Alphas, Estes Tube Marking Guide and the Handbook of Model Rocketry, so let the reading and sponging begin!

The other thing I would advise is to use snap swivels on all your low power chutes rather than permanently attaching them to the nosecone. You can change them out easier and use the same chute for multiple rockets. Also don't store your chute all crumpled up inside the rockets. I just leave them flat for storage. That and talcum powder helps ensure deployment. OK so that's a few things but hope it helps!

Glenn

GlennW said:

The other thing I would advise is to use snap swivels on all your low power chutes rather than permanently attaching them to the nosecone. You can change them out easier and use the same chute for multiple rockets. Also don't store your chute all crumpled up inside the rockets. I just leave them flat for storage. That and talcum powder helps ensure deployment. OK so that's a few things but hope it helps!

Glenn

Click to expand...

Would you mind posting a link to a recommended snap swivel? I Googled it and looked for about 5 or 10 minutes, though there look to be many different styles. Thanks!

For small stuff, I usually use these:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/SWIVELS-BARREL-W-SAFETY-SNAP-S/44494093

See if this helps ...

This method was from forum member cjl.

Greg

View attachment CJL Parachute Folding.pdf

I use a method similar to this when folding my parachutes for use in FAI international competition and it is very reliable in avoiding recovery tangles. Anything that prevents a perfect deployment on every flight is a non-starter at that level. Once bad flight out of three and you might as well have stayed home.

kj

GregGleason said:

See if this helps ...

This method was from forum member cjl.

Greg

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. I'm going to practice these techniques and test fit them in the BTs. After the difficult deployment of my Alpha IIIs recovery system last night resulting in an overpressure, and causing the engine to force the engine hook down, slightly tearing the MMT, I want to make sure my folding/packing technique is squared away.

What's the best way to incorporate the shock cord into the parachute; I've been having a heck of a time...

stealth6 said:

I followed Fruity's guidelines and method (https://www.fruitychutes.com/help_for_parachutes/how_to_pack_a_parachute.htm). As you can see the shroud lines are wrapped around the bundled chute in this method. I gotta say, these chutes always pack MUCH cleaner and smaller than any other type of chute in my quiver, and they always deploy very well. I've since adopted the basic concept when packing my other types of chutes. It's reliable and works great.

ymmv, s6

Click to expand...

x 2, big or small chutes, unless it's in a DB. The above is my method and it has proven to be very reliable. Just make sure you pay attention to wrap and pack it in the order in which you want it to deploy and you should have successful deployments almost every time. I say almost as things do and can happen that are out of your control.

Sorry for the new-guy questions; what is a DP? Also, what do you mean by pack it in the order in which you want it to deploy? Thanks in advance!

Purkeypilot said:

Sorry for the new-guy questions; what is a DP? Also, what do you mean by pack it in the order in which you want it to deploy? Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

Sorry meant DB or more commonly called a D-Bag, AKA deployment bag.

Packing all of the gear in the order in which you want it to deploy will help mitigate deployment issues. I once heard someone say that if it looks sloppy it will deploy sloppy. I pack my chutes taking my time folding, wrapping, z folding shock cords etc., it should look neat and tidy when its done correctly. The chute pack depends on the chute type, mine are all spherical in basic shape, both fruity chute elliptical and iris toroidal shape versions. When I use a DB I pack it the way Gene recommends, you literally stuff it in then neatly pack the shroud lines and pay attention to the bridle.

In your case you're not using a DB so if the chute is spherical then I would fold it vertically keeping the shroud lines neat and or gores aligned then Z fold it horizontally. If you double fold or triple z fold or however many times, that depends on your payload size and the chute. A shorter fat payload then you make your bundle the same way and do more folds. Once you have it folded the way you like you would then hold the chute in the position it will unfurl so lines down, bring the lines up to near the top then start wrapping evenly and neatly down to the bridle or attachment point. The bridle or attachment loop will not get wrapped. I usually pack mine in a Nomex even on my itty bitty rockets my kids fly by placing the chute in the middle folding one side over then the top down then rolling it the rest vertically. That package gets put into the payload lube last.

I then z fold my shock cord and neatly place it into the payload tube followed by the chute package.

At this stage when the chute is deployed it comes out wrapped in the Nomex gets into the air stream and helps to pull the harness, unless it was also pushed out via the ejection charge which is what you want. Bottom line is it deploys in the order that you want it to be in it's final positions, chute at the top, shroud lines, nomex, bridle or attachment loop and recovery harness and hopefully your unharmed rocket dangling below.

For my LPR/MPR rockets I typically do not use the kit-provided chute but go with Top Flight Recovery's Thin Mill chutes. I went with these after a bad experience with a plastic chute and wanted something better.

https://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html

They pack small and the 9" or 12" will work for most LPR's, whereas the 18" and 24" will work for most MPR's.

Greg

GregGleason said:

For my LPR/MPR rockets I typically do not use the kit-provided chute but go with Top Flight Recovery's Thin Mill chutes. I went with these after a bad experience with a plastic chute and wanted something better.

https://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html

They pack small and the 9" or 12" will work for most LPR's, whereas the 18" and 24" will work for most MPR's.

Greg

Click to expand...

Excellent, thanks! I will most definitely check them out and strongly considered picking one or more up!

On a side note; I'm having a heck of a time tucking the Shock Cord into the chute. If I opt to not wrap the Shock Cord into the chute with the shroud lines, then should I pack it into the BT before or after inserting the parachute? I'm thinking after (on top)?

GregGleason said:

For my LPR/MPR rockets I typically do not use the kit-provided chute but go with Top Flight Recovery's Thin Mill chutes. I went with these after a bad experience with a plastic chute and wanted something better.

https://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html

They pack small and the 9" or 12" will work for most LPR's, whereas the 18" and 24" will work for most MPR's.

Greg

Click to expand...

Is the 1.1oz referring to the Nylon "weight" and not actual physical weight correct? I would imagine a 9-12" parachute is going to weigh WAY less that 1.1oz.

Purkeypilot said:

Is the 1.1oz referring to the Nylon "weight" and not actual physical weight correct? I would imagine a 9-12" parachute is going to weigh WAY less that 1.1oz.

Click to expand...

For most cloth in the US, the fabric is measured by ounces per square yard, so 1.1oz fabric is the weight per square yard. So you are correct, these chutes weigh just a few grams but are pretty durable.

Greg

Purkeypilot said:

Excellent, thanks! I will most definitely check them out and strongly considered picking one or more up!

On a side note; I'm having a heck of a time tucking the Shock Cord into the chute. If I opt to not wrap the Shock Cord into the chute with the shroud lines, then should I pack it into the BT before or after inserting the parachute? I'm thinking after (on top)?

Click to expand...

The way I do it, the length of the shock cord between the chute and the airframe goes in first, then the chute, then the remainder of the cord from the chute to the nose cone goes in last.

Greg

BTW, I don't put the shock cord into the chute, only the suspension lines (aka, shroud lines).

GregGleason said:

For most cloth in the US, the fabric is measured by ounces per square yard, so 1.1oz fabric is the weight per square yard. So you are correct, these chutes weigh just a few grams but are pretty durable.

Greg

Click to expand...

Gotcha'. Makes sense, thanks!

Purkeypilot said:

Thanks for all the knowledge and advice all! I JUST got my 12 pack of Alphas, Estes Tube Marking Guide and the Handbook of Model Rocketry, so let the reading and sponging begin!

Click to expand...

Hi Purkeypilot,

As you can see, ask and you can get a dozen different answers! :wink:

My opinion is that since you have a 12 pack of Alphas, just use the chutes that came with them and try following the directions provided first, then when something goes wrong, try it a bit differently...heck, you have lots of replacements! Also when you're starting, it's great to learn through your own experiences to prepare you as you move to bigger things. However, I still recommend at least unfurling the chutes first...don't just stick them into the rocket as they come folded since they may well remain the same way. Also others may disagree, but in general, I'll assume the manufacturer has some of the best advice on how to fly their rocket (note that this definitely isn't always the case), so I'll usually follow the directions first and then try to improve or fix next.

FWIW - I flew a lot of Estes plastic chute rockets in the winter on a frozen lake (often snow covered) and I think that's some of the worst conditions for plastic chutes...freezing temps and high humidity and so my earlier advice comes from a lot of launches in those conditions with stock Estes chutes.

Good luck and enjoy launching your Alphas!

Another quick tip on Estes chutes. I don't know if they still pack them pre assembled like they did at one time, but, always check the knots, and, shroud line lengths, if they are.

David.

Awesome everyone, thanks for all the options and advise. I think I have plenty of info and insight to work with now!

I love using my well used/broken in 18" JonRocket parachute. There are no more memory fold lines. It's very soft and fluffy. Even the shroud lines are super soft from all the talc and not hard and whiskery. I have had dozens of flights with this chute and it just gets better like a well worn hat or shoes. I use a snap swivel to prevent twisting. I place the shroud lined in the chute instead of wrapping them around it. Cinders can travel along the walls of the inside body tube and singe the shroud lines and cause failure.

JERRYR708 said:

I love using my well used/broken in 18" JonRocket parachute. There are no more memory fold lines. It's very soft and fluffy. Even the shroud lines are super soft from all the talc and not hard and whiskery. I have had dozens of flights with this chute and it just gets better like a well worn hat or shoes. I use a snap swivel to prevent twisting. I place the shroud lined in the chute instead of wrapping them around it. Cinders can travel along the walls of the inside body tube and singe the shroud lines and cause failure.

Click to expand...

JonRocket? I'll have to check 'em out!

I pull my parachute shroud lines together, make my parachute into a "slice of pizza", fold point down to bottom and roll it to the middle from both sides. I wrap my lines around the parachute about 3 times.

I Z fold my shock cord about 6 to 8 inches long and lightly wrap it with masking tape.

Put the deployment protection in (dog barf, wadding, Nomex, ect.) put the shock cord in then the chute on top of that.

Works very well with 1/4" and larger shock cord. The parachute folding has been used on chutes from 6" plastic to 24" nylon.

This method worked flawlessly on my dual deploy Partizon for both its shake down flight and its L1 cert flight.