Brands of CA

I recently moved, and have yet to find a hobby shop nearby. I need some supplies, most urgently some medium CA, so I'm just looking around online for now.

Am I fine just getting the cheapest I can find? Are all brands of CA basically the same, or do they vary in quality?

[Edit] I should say that previously, I was buying whatever brand was available at the hobby shop where I lived. I figured it would be appropriate for rocket building. But I forget the brand name.

I buy mine at a wood working store called Klingspors. You're not limited to just hobby shops or online if you have something like that, where you live.

I've bought many types from many sources and haven't noticed any difference(yet). I do use the better stuff for the bigger rockets just for peace of mind. Also I only use CA for Low to Mid power rockets.

When I'm looking for quantity at a low price, I'll buy the regular and gels from Harbor Freight either with a coupon or when they're on sale (which is often). I've purchased large bottles of CA in the past from hobby stores, but they often harden before I get to even use half, so I like buying more of the small tubes like the ones that HF has.

Example: I was recently building an AT Strong Arm with HF CA and dropped the completed motor tube assembly on my cement floor and the motor clip broke. Let me tell you...I couldn't get it apart to remove the clip without tearing and grinding it apart. AT was kind enough to send me all the replacement parts needed (I did tell them the truth and offered to pay for the parts, but they were kind enough to send everything free of charge - Thank You Aerotech!).

YMMV

Most hobby stores will stock Bob Smith CA, it's pretty much the standard commodity stuff. I like the new screw on tops over the older snap on tops.

kj

kjohnson said:

Most hobby stores will stock Bob Smith CA, it's pretty much the standard commodity stuff. I like the new screw on tops over the older snap on tops.

kj

Click to expand...

+1-if you look closely many shops have this 'relabeled' for themselves.

KenECoyote said:

I've bought many types from many sources and haven't noticed any difference(yet). I do use the better stuff for the bigger rockets just for peace of mind. Also I only use CA for Low to Mid power rockets.

When I'm looking for quantity at a low price, I'll buy the regular and gels from Harbor Freight either with a coupon or when they're on sale (which is often). I've purchased large bottles of CA in the past from hobby stores, but they often harden before I get to even use half, so I like buying more of the small tubes like the ones that HF has.

Example: I was recently building an AT Strong Arm with HF CA and dropped the completed motor tube assembly on my cement floor and the motor clip broke. Let me tell you...I couldn't get it apart to remove the clip without tearing and grinding it apart. AT was kind enough to send me all the replacement parts needed (I did tell them the truth and offered to pay for the parts, but they were kind enough to send everything free of charge - Thank You Aerotech!).

YMMV

Click to expand...

I used to buy the larger tubes for a bargain, but you are right, they dry up half way into the bottle. I remember buying a bottle and opening the whole lid on a fresh new bottle to dip a long wooden stick into it for a deep application and you can really smell and see the fumes coming out. After about 6 months, the fumes were gone and the smell was not as strong. I also noticed that the bonding strength was not as good as when I first opened the bottle.
This might be due to me opening up the whole lid instead of just using the little applicator.

Buying CA is like buying spices, only buy what you will use in a very short time because they both have a short shelf life and lose potency.

It definitely helps to store your open CA bottles in an air-tight container with a couple of desiccant packs. The water in the air will react with the CA in the bottle and harden it over time.

kj

I was wondering if it was "commodity stuff," so I guess I'm safe buying whatever I can find. I haven't found much in the way of hobby shops too close to where I live. I try not to drive around Boston that much (it's terrifying), so I was hoping there was something I could get to on foot or on the train.

There is a craft store not too far from here I may check out (it's beads and stuff, but I'd bet they'd have some CA - might give them a call). And there's a hobby shop in Malden, which looks kind of far, and which looks like it's all diorama stuff and some model airplanes. That's about all I can find in the metropolitan area, unless Google just doesn't want me to know.

I'll probably shop online for this stuff for now. I'm still pretty lost in Boston - I try not to go out unless I know where I'm going and how to get back - the streets don't make a lot of sense to me yet.

Man, I used to live so close to three places where I could easily get hobby CA, and 2 more places I could get sheet balsa and basswood. I tried to stock up on stuff, but I should have gotten more!

Hey Daniel,

What are you planning to use the CA for...what kind of builds?

I've even used CA found at Target (ex. Loctite) with good results in my low power rockets. Personally, I haven't noticed any difference, but as the rocket gets bigger, I prefer to use better stuff as a precaution. However I used either Harbor Freight or Loctite CA on my L1 Sumo (just lots of it) and it's a tank.

Regards,
Ken

KenECoyote said:

Hey Daniel,

What are you planning to use the CA for...what kind of builds?

I've even used CA found at Target (ex. Loctite) with good results in my low power rockets. Personally, I haven't noticed any difference, but as the rocket gets bigger, I prefer to use better stuff as a precaution. However I used either Harbor Freight or Loctite CA on my L1 Sumo (just lots of it) and it's a tank.

Regards,
Ken

Click to expand...

Well, the medium stuff I need at the moment I mainly plan to tack centering rings and fins in place on MPR, so that I can then epoxy them into place. I also like to use medium CA to glue plastic nose cones to body tubes (if I'm making a payload bay or something), as in this picture:



That's a BT60 Bertha-style nose cone glued in place on top. I can remove the bay from the balsa transition and insert an altimeter from below. I got the idea from a Quest build which called for medium CA for the application (plastic part to paper tube).

I have a small bottle of thin CA which I mainly use to reinforce balsa fins for LPR, if I've sanded a taper which is particularly thin, and for the few times I paper fins (which I do rarely). I bought it before moving, and didn't open it. My bottle of medium, I had to cut the tip off to get to the stuff after a plug hardened in the nozzle, and it wouldn't stay on after that, so I had to throw it out.

But I don't use it for permanent fin attachment or anything.

Personally I think any widely available or known brand CA should be fine for your builds. I've used them in my Aerotech rockets without hesitation and they haven't let me down yet...also gave me quite a headache to tear apart that motor tube!

I also like picking up the Krazy Glue with a brush applicator at Target, Walmart, etc. and when it runs out, I refill it with a big bottle of whatever thin CA is cheap such as Loctite or Gorilla Glue CA. Great for small areas or those taper edges and you can seal it better than the spout applicator bottles in my experience. Only problem is after a while it can build up around the bottle, so then just toss it. Good luck!

BTW - Beware of CA fumes and wear eye protection and gloves!!! :wink:

Hi Daniel!

I just did a Google search for hobby stores in Boston, MA and the results were pretty dismal. You do have Michael's and they should have a fair selection of adhesives. Maybe you should take up home brewing until such time as you return to Flyover Country? One would have to be pretty drunk to understand the street layout in Beantown. :rofl:

tmacklin said:

Hi Daniel!

I just did a Google search for hobby stores in Boston, MA and the results were pretty dismal. You do have Michael's and they should have a fair selection of adhesives. Maybe you should take up home brewing until such time as you return to Flyover Country? One would have to be pretty drunk to understand the street layout in Beantown. :rofl:

Click to expand...

Funny you should mention home brewing, Ted, because the beer ain't cheap here, either!

For balsa and a number of other building supplies, don't forget Blick's - I just checked and there are two in Boston. Just some of the rocket building supplies I've bought there: balsa, foam core, matte board, Sharpie Magnum markers in various colors, silvered Mylar tape, vellum, tracing paper, clear sheet styrene (had to special order that) and acrylic paint. I wouldn't doubt that they would have CA as well.

Also, I see there is a Joanne's Fabrics there - they usually have a wid selection of hobby supplies as well. Always remember to think outside the box - you can get rocket building supplies at some of the most unlikely places!

Since Ted brought up brewing, I've bought a few items for brewing at Hobby Lobby/Michaels/JoAnns.

Any store can have what you need, whatever the hobby/purpose. Keep an open mind.

Don't they have WalMarts up north? All kinds of adhesives... Dunno why you'd need a hobby shop for that.

I've found even the cheap ones glue my fingers very well.

No all CA's are not the same. Some of the cheapy CA's are a diluted form which works OK on static models and hobby projects but should really be avoided where flying models are being built. Bob Smiths is a good one, So is the Gold Label stuff sold by Pratt hobbies. Personally; I prefer Zip CA's which I buy in the largest bottles I can find. Usually 4oz., 8oz., or larger.

There are two very effective ways to keep any of these Water thin and Medium CA's from thickening before the bottle runs out.
1) Keep the Open CA bottle in a Qt size zip lock bag when not in use. When working on a project use the CA in a glue pan or tray keeping the bottle closed as much as possible. Using this method I have not lost a bit of Medium CA in over 10 years.

2) To get the very best pricing I usually buy more then one bottle at a time to get both the product price and shipping a low as possible. To help preserve the unopened CA bottle I keep them in individual Zip Loc baggies in the Freezer. Using this method I have 8 and 16oz refill bottles of Thin and Medium CA purchased 8 years ago that are in perfect shape today.

Edit:
All that said: CA's no matter how good should not be your primary Adhesive for ANY flying model. the only exception to this would be Competition Very light weight models which are NOT intended to be kept for more then a few flights. CA's ALL CA's become very brittle over time (within 1 year) After which fins, Rotors, motor mounts and just about any part of a flying model that is subjected to stress will crack, break or completely fail. I've seen 16month old Competition HD models re-kit themselves at ejection. BT-5 PD and streamer models strip all 3 fins just after ignition. CA just isn't the best glue or adhesive for our purpose. White & Yellow Carpenters Glues, other wood glues and some Epoxies for fillets can give you models that will last for several Decades. Don't overlook Aleene's Tacky Glue! They have a Clear Gel that dries clear with the superior holding power of carpenters glues on paper to paper, paper to wood joints & fillets..

Micromeister said:

All that said: CA's no matter how good should not be your primary Adhesive for ANY flying model. the only exception to this would be Competition Very light weight models which are NOT intended to be kept for more then a few flights. CA's ALL CA's become very brittle over time (within 1 year) After which fins, Rotors, motor mounts and just about any part of a flying model that is subjected to stress will crack, break or completely fail.

Click to expand...

Don't most Aerotech Rocket kits list CA for kit construction? They've been around for many years too.

FWIW - I searched Amazon for "super glue" under Cyanoacrylate Adhesives and almost everything has 4-5 stars with the exception of some odd glues or odd dispensers. This should also help you choose which one based on ratings and you can also order from your current position (in front of your computer :wink : https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...x=super+glue,aps,142&rh=n:228013,k:super+glue

Note that Loctite (which was one I had suggested earlier; however it is thin CA) is their #1 seller (20g) and have the two top rated items in this category (one is 10g and the other is 20g).

Also a side note that CA doesn’t work on some plastics like Polypropylene (PP) and Polyethylene (PE) and most people don’t seem to know this, so they may give a bad review if they tried it on such plastics (which are quite common in the things we use...I know since I've been trying to get some items bonded on a scratch build and the saline solution container was PE).

EDIT: Sorry, I had missed that the OP was asking about Medium CA and I've been respondeing about CAs in general and many are thin.

Aerotech may suggest CA as one of the adhesives for use in their models. That doesn't change the fact ALL CA's become brittle in fairly short order. Aerotech may simply not care about the longevity of such bonds as attachment failures only serve to help sell more kits. I'll say this again: CA should NEVER be used as the only adhesive in flying model construction with the exceptions mentioned in my earlier post.
Personally: I only use CA's for competition models that are not intended to last more then a few flights, Spot tacking parts and sealing balsa and other woods before priming.

CA has lots of good uses but it should not be the only adhesive for structural part joints. It's just not designed for those applications.
Hope that helps to clarify.

Micromeister said:

Aerotech may suggest CA as one of the adhesives for use in their models. That doesn't change the fact ALL CA's become brittle in fairly short order. Aerotech may simply not care about the longevity of such bonds as attachment failures only serve to help sell more kits. I'll say this again: CA should NEVER be used as the only adhesive in flying model construction with the exceptions mentioned in my earlier post.
Personally: I only use CA's for competition models that are not intended to last more then a few flights, Spot tacking parts and sealing balsa and other woods before priming.

CA has lots of good uses but it should not be the only adhesive for structural part joints. It's just not designed for those applications.
Hope that helps to clarify.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

Actually for most of the AT kits, CA is the only adhesive suggested (ex. Arreaux, Strong Arm, Cheetah, Initiator, Mirage, Mustang...where it notes "ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS: (Use medium viscosity cyanoacrylate cement.)"). Perhaps it's because AT kits also rely on the interlocking structure acting as one unit with the fin, bulkheads and motor mount, so the weaknesses you've noted aren't as great a factor for AT kits.

I was aware that CA gets brittle in cold/freezing temps, but didn't think about it getting brittle over time. Good thing to keep an eye on. Thanks John! :handshake:

Not so sure about "all CAs get brittle over time". In my experience CA joints are brittle from the get-go, especially when compared with traditional "model airplane glue" (methylcelluose cement), white and yellow wood glues or most epoxies.

I have an RC airplane that was built in 1980 with CA glues to balsa and redwood (wing spars) that is just fine now, and several only a few years newer that aren't threatening to self-destruct either. That oldest model was probably built with the original CA glue for model use - Hot Stuff from Satellite City.

I do agree there are definite differences in CAs in handling qualities, how long they last on the shelf, and quality of joints and do agree with John that ZAP glues (and Balsa USA Gold) are among the best. That said, for the original poster's query, I concur that Bob Smith's medium (usually shows as private label in a given hobby shop) is a good choice as well. I was even going to suggest Hobby Lobby as a source but there aren't any in Boston - I just checked.

I have never noticed any aging issues with cured CA bonds, and this manufacturer states that ethyl CA's have "excellent aging and weathering characteristics": https://www.ca-plus.com/cyanoacrylates.html

That said, CA bonds are more brittle than many other glue types right from the start, especially if cured rapidly (e.g. with accelerator or surface area enhancers like microballoons or baking soda). You have to make appropriate engineering decisions here... The faster curing thin types seem more prone to making brittle joints so these days I mostly use a medium type (Zap-a-Gap). I've got 30+ year old LPR models built largely with CA that are still fine.

As far as types/storage, I also get larger (2oz+) bottles of the Zap line and keep them in a fridge. Even the opened bottles will last at least 3-4 years and possibly more (none have congealed on me yet!).

I found another paper giving drastically different cure time performances among various commercial brands of CA, showing that quality and formulation do matter a lot. So I'd avoid "store brands" where you can't tell the pedigree and stick with well established hobby/commercial types.

gpoehlein said:

For balsa and a number of other building supplies, don't forget Blick's - I just checked and there are two in Boston. Just some of the rocket building supplies I've bought there: balsa, foam core, matte board, Sharpie Magnum markers in various colors, silvered Mylar tape, vellum, tracing paper, clear sheet styrene (had to special order that) and acrylic paint. I wouldn't doubt that they would have CA as well.

Also, I see there is a Joanne's Fabrics there - they usually have a wid selection of hobby supplies as well. Always remember to think outside the box - you can get rocket building supplies at some of the most unlikely places!

Click to expand...

I've never heard of Blick's. I'll have to check them out. Thanks for the recommendation!

lcorinth said:

I've never heard of Blick's. I'll have to check them out. Thanks for the recommendation!

Click to expand...

They used to be called Dick Blick Art Supplies (or something like that), but a few years ago they shortened the name. As the original name suggests, they are an art supply store and not a craft or hobby store, but there is a good deal of overlap.