First build as a BAR: Estes Solar Warrior, #3225

It's funny, I'm finishing up mine started 3 years ago before I had to move.
I didn't realize there was a tail cone.
I wonder what happened to mine???:confused2:

caveduck said:

Nice work - you've dealt handily with the problem spots. I think you're going to have a good looking model.

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Thanks. Right now the only thing that's really bothering me is that one of the fins seems to have tilted over ever so slightly. You can't see it unless you sight up from the bottom of the rocket, but one thing I always prided myself on was perfectly glued fins. I believe I know how to prevent this in the future but still annoying. Oh well.

I should mention that's it's very common to paint things (or at least primer them) before assembly, with various ways of assuring good glue bonds, a few of which got mentioned already. If you want the best possible fin joint strength in a non-TTW design, you can actually remove the glassine layer (with Dremel sanding drum or cut outline and peel) so that the kraft paper layer underneath will take up the glue better. It works whether you're using wood glue, CA or epoxy. The aluminum angles are great for marking the removal zones.

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When re-sanding the body tube, I think I actually took off quite a bit of the glassine layer in the fin attachment areas. Maybe not all of it, but there was definitly some exposed paper there. I've applied two layers of fillets now and I'm pretty sure it is strong.

Last step before painting is to figure out if and how to sand the fillets.

I had fun with the fillets, sanding then adding another layer then another. By the third layer I had the technique down. Here is my unsuccessful attemp to take a picture of one:


I guess we'll see how they came out when I paint.

And so she is ready for paint....



...and now I'm heading off on vacation. Will complete it when I return.

I'm reading this with great interest as a fellow BAR. My solar warrior arrives tomorrow, and I'm hoping to leave work early to get started on it.

BDB said:

I'm reading this with great interest as a fellow BAR. My solar warrior arrives tomorrow, and I'm hoping to leave work early to get started on it.

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I am very satisfied with this kit as my first one back. All problems I've had are of my own doing.

I find the proportions of this rocket peculiar in an appealing kind of way. The ginormous nose cone (in relationship to the BT) just gives it a unique look. This is also my first based on anything as large as a BT60 and it it definitely has whetted my appetite for bigger stuff.

I'm spoiling to get it finished up, will be attacking it with vigor next week.

Let us know how your build goes!

Time to start painting. I'm using Rusto 2x gloss white as my base coat, will be following the face card color scheme. I'm a bit nervous, because I don't want to ruin the rocket with a horrible paint job, a result that seems all too possible.
Here is the rocket on my cobbled-together paint stand, ready to go.


The weather conditions are a bit on the edge of too warm and humid, but I'm gonna take my chances because I won't have another chance to paint for many days.

I attempted two light coats and one heavy coat, about 15 minutes apart. I realized very quickly that I didn't really know what a "light" or "heavy" coat was, but I think I came close. Here are the results:


That is the approximate distance from which the paint looks good. Let's go closer:


No spirals or wood grain, but a heaping portion of orange peel. I am not sure why, but it is disappointing. Still I'll live with it; I'll try to improve next time and this should look ok unless you get too close. At least my fillets came out very nice.

Here's something *really* annoying:


One of the repaired fins has a nice gap that was not filled by the primer somehow. Very annoyed that I let that slip through. Probably won't be too visible once decals are applied, though.

And so there is painting step 1. Clearly I have a lot of room to improve here, which I expected, but it really does look ok from a few feet away.

Once it fully cures I'll move to step 2: metallic blue.

You can fill that little crack with any one of the putty's available for models.
Sand your primer with 220, apply putty, let dry, sand, and give that fin another coat of primer.
After that dry's your ready for wet sanding and color.
Hope this helps.

Woody's Workshop said:

You can fill that little crack with any one of the putty's available for models.
Sand your primer with 220, apply putty, let dry, sand, and give that fin another coat of primer.
After that dry's your ready for wet sanding and color.
Hope this helps.

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If I had caught that before applying the white (which is a finish coat, not primer) I would have done something with it, but now... I'll just leave it. Fortunately, it looks like the majority (if not the entirety) of the crack will be covered by decal, so it could end up being a non-issue.

What I'm really wondering is if some wet-sanding would be worth it to smooth out the orange peel. I will try some sanding of the upper half of the rocket that will be receiving the blue topcoat, maybe if that goes really well I'll extend to the whole model, but I'm gonna try to resist that urge so I can finish this build already (much as I enjoy endlessly extending this build thread, it's gotta end at some point ).

I will do better with the whole fill and prime phase on my next build. Of course, I also hopefully won't have to repair as many broken fins as I had to with this one....

Orange peel is caused by whats called dry spray.
Drys too fast or partially before it hits the surface.
Over 80 F can easily cause this.
Get some 1500 w/d and micro polishing compound, if think its necessary.
Or could to 600 w/d and clear coat it or give it another coat of white.
You sure have had your troubles on this one to say the least.
It gets better, faster and funner when things all goes right!

Woody's Workshop said:

Orange peel is caused by whats called dry spray.
Drys too fast or partially before it hits the surface.
Over 80 F can easily cause this.

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I need to get a good test surface so I can see how the paint is behaving before I commit it to the model. I didn't have anything available this time.

Get some 1500 w/d and micro polishing compound, if think its necessary.
Or could to 600 w/d and clear coat it or give it another coat of white.

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I'll experiment a bit with the top half and see if I want to go whole hog on the rest of the rocket.

You sure have had your troubles on this one to say the least.
It gets better, faster and funner when things all goes right!

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I expected some troubles, but was probably hoping at least *some* things would go right. My fillets are good at least.

It has still certainly been fun, though I wouldn't mind going a bit faster. I have two more builds lined up after this one, so I'll get to find out soon enough if I've learned anything here.

I think all the excessive time getting this first model completed pretty much insures that it's going to suffer some catastrophe on its first flight (only half kidding.:eyepop

I learned a long time ago dry time is an excuse to start another build.
I've got 8 in primer, 7 ready for primer, 1 in the painting stage, and 3 in the building stage.
5 large boxes of kits to start working on. (over 100)
Yea, it's an addiction. :bang:

After the first flight, it won't be museum quality anymore. Fly it and enjoy it!

By the way, how long should I wait before wet-sanding? Do I need a full cure?

neil_w said:

By the way, how long should I wait before wet-sanding? Do I need a full cure?

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Probably... it would gum up your sandpaper if it isn't.

Neil - How is the build going? I don't want to hijack your thread, but I thought I'd compare notes with you. I just finished painting the forward portion of the Solar Warrior dark blue (I can still smell the paint), and I have to say, I really like the color. I'll let it dry for a couple days, apply the decals and clear coat, and then I'm planning to fly it on Saturday with RIMRA.

Like you, this was my first kit as a BAR. And it was a great choice. I put a lot more effort into it than I would have 25 years ago. Despite the effort, it isn't perfect, but I have learned a ton, and it really is one of the better looking rockets that I have built.

That said, I have a few regrets/observations that I thought I should share. I put a ton of effort into getting the compound fins to be smooth, and there still are a few imperfections that bug me.

1 - I used 2 or 3 coats of sanding sealer to prep the fins and was very happy with the results. They didn't warp, and they were silky smooth to the touch. That said, now that it is painted with a gloss white, I can still see a little bit of the grain. I probably should have given it 3 or 4 coats.

2 - I puttied the small imperfections in the fins with Elmers sandable wood filler, and this turned out to be a huge pain in the butt! Maybe it was the humidity, but it never dried hard so I could sand it to a smooth surface.

3 - The fin fillets on the outer fin joints and the launch lug had lots of air bubbles, I'm not at all happy with how they look, but because of the pain that the wood filler caused, I didn't want to try to fill them in. Could I have used 5 min epoxy for the fillets? I just used it to set the fins on my Ventris, and it worked really well. It seems like that would have been so much easier for both the fin mounting and the fillets.

4 - I should have painted the tail cone before I glued it to the rocket. I would have liked to paint it navy to match, but now I'm stuck with white because it would be very difficult to tape off to paint.

Now for the things that came out well:

1 - I used the Estes fin alignment guide to set the fins. I loved that thing as a kid, and it was definitely worth the re-purchase.

2 - I was pretty happy with the sanding sealer on the fins, and I also used it to fill the spiral grooves in the tube. (I don't think I ever did anything like that as a kid.)

3 - Rustoleum Painters Touch 2X primer from Home Depot worked great and sanded very smooth. The Painters Touch 2X paint also worked great. I made a really straight line with no bleeding between the white and navy by taping and then brushing clear paint on the joint, letting it dry and then spraying the blue.

In all, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Now I'm going to to load it with a D12-5 and hope for the best this weekend....

Well I wet sanded the whole rocket down mostly to a satiny white finish, then painted again tonight. The results look much like last time, maybe *slightly* better. I am declaring it "good enough" for this time, and will see if I can get any better results on my next build. If there's one good thing that came out of it I sort of got the hang of wet-sanding the paint. Next weekend I will apply the metallic blue to the top half (really top 2/3).

BDB said:

Neil - How is the build going? I don't want to hijack your thread, but I thought I'd compare notes with you. I just finished painting the forward portion of the Solar Warrior dark blue (I can still smell the paint), and I have to say, I really like the color. I'll let it dry for a couple days, apply the decals and clear coat, and then I'm planning to fly it on Saturday with RIMRA.

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Looks great, please post more pics after you get the decals on.

I'm having a bit of an issue waiting for the Rusto to fully cure. It seems like it will continue to fail the sniff test indefinitely. For now I'm on a 1-week-between-colors cadence, and even so there's a slight smell. No bubbling on the new coat so far, though.

1 - I used 2 or 3 coats of sanding sealer to prep the fins and was very happy with the results. They didn't warp, and they were silky smooth to the touch. That said, now that it is painted with a gloss white, I can still see a little bit of the grain. I probably should have given it 3 or 4 coats.

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I tried hcmbanjo's CWF + 1 coat of filler approach and I'm gonna stay with it. I like avoiding the nasty-smelling sanding sealer, and one coat of CWF plus one coat of primer really did a good job for me. There are a few imperfections here and there but mostly my fault in places where I over-sanded the filler.

2 - I puttied the small imperfections in the fins with Elmers sandable wood filler, and this turned out to be a huge pain in the butt! Maybe it was the humidity, but it never dried hard so I could sand it to a smooth surface.

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Which version of the filler did you use? I found the plain CWF to be extremely easy to work with.

3 - The fin fillets on the outer fin joints and the launch lug had lots of air bubbles, I'm not at all happy with how they look, but because of the pain that the wood filler caused, I didn't want to try to fill them in. Could I have used 5 min epoxy for the fillets? I just used it to set the fins on my Ventris, and it worked really well. It seems like that would have been so much easier for both the fin mounting and the fillets.

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Ha ha, I had the same exact problem. When I assembled the fins, I put in a quick fillet of Titebond II and thought that would do it. I only found the holes after my first coat of white paint. In the future I will fillet those joints with my Titebond No Run-No Drip; one quick fillet should do it there. That stuff is great.

4 - I should have painted the tail cone before I glued it to the rocket. I would have liked to paint it navy to match, but now I'm stuck with white because it would be very difficult to tape off to paint.

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Yeah, I have that off (still), awaiting last coat of black.

In all, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Now I'm going to to load it with a D12-5 and hope for the best this weekend....

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Good luck! I bought a couple of C11-3's to try out first, because I really don't wanna lose it.

Here is the compound that I used. Not too happy with it. I bit on it because it said sandable on the label. I should just stick to the regular stuff in the orange.

neil_w,

You may be able to wet sand with 1000+ grit paper and then use an automotive polish to shine it up (not a wax, but a real abrasive polish). I have had good results doing this for bad spots. I just finished a Big Daddy with Rustoleum and was very pleased, compared to Krylon (which I will never use again). I am a BAR also and experimented on some scrap balsa and such too. I spent a month on the Big Daddy and it was still not cured when I launched it...(last time I can get to a real field this year) No sense in rushing this stuff. Enjoy it.

I have the Solar Warrior also and might build before Winter!

BDB said:

Here is the compound that I used. Not too happy with it. I bit on it because it said sandable on the label. I should just stick to the regular stuff in the orange.

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Yup, you want this: https://elmers.com/product/detail/E842.

The one lesson I learned about it is: where a mask when sanding. Sanding this stuff produces very fine dust.

The one thing on this build that went *perfect* for me was filling the spirals in the BT with this.

ttbit said:

You may be able to wet sand with 1000+ grit paper and then use an automotive polish to shine it up (not a wax, but a real abrasive polish). I have had good results doing this for bad spots.

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I took a closer look and feel this morning (now that the paint is dry enough to be handlable) and it's actually somewhat better than last time, though still not perfect. I'm going to wet-sand the top part that will receive the blue top coat, but will probably leave the white part alone.

Except, as an experiment, I think I will wet-sand *one* of the fins before applying decals, and when everything is finished I'll compare the result with the others. The two questions I want to answer are:

1) Compare decal results on unsanded, slightly bumpy, gloss paint vs. smooth, sanded, satiny paint.
2) Compare the finish after Future is applied.

We'll see how it goes. In the meantime I've put the rocket in my shed, which should probably get to 90 degrees today. Maybe it'll cure a bit faster.

I'll bet smooth paint wins. You can always buff it. It will look better than a shiny orange and the decals will go on nicer. That being said, I have some spots of orange peel on my BD and I may just leave it as it is on the bottom of a couple of the fins where I didn't spray good enough.

It all looks good on the launch pad. I am curious as to what you find out. Every build is a learning experience.

Oh....also....on the elmer's wood filler. I bought the wrong one also last week. It was different from the two listed here. It is more "greenish" in color. The one listed by Neil is the stuff I have had good luck with. I think mine says exterior instead of interior. The interior stuff goes on super easy for fins.

-edit Just checked...the one I bought is a Home Depot Only version. Probably not good... I'll test with some scrap.

ttbit said:

-edit Just checked...the one I bought is a Home Depot Only version. Probably not good... I'll test with some scrap.

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It's up to you, but I'd say just return it and get the right stuff. No point struggling with an unknown. HD will take back anything. They seem to sell a lot of the "Max" stuff, which you *don't* want.

neil_w said:

It's up to you, but I'd say just return it and get the right stuff. No point struggling with an unknown. HD will take back anything. They seem to sell a lot of the "Max" stuff, which you *don't* want.

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Probably right. I found that it did work well on some balsa, but it doesn't break down in water quite the same. How many coats of filler did you use on the body tube lines, btw??

ttbit said:

Probably right. I found that it did work well on some balsa, but it doesn't break down in water quite the same. How many coats of filler did you use on the body tube lines, btw??

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One coat (using thinning ratio and razor squeegee technique described by hcmbanjo), sanded at 400, followed by one coat of filler primer, and I would say that the body tube finish is the one the that came out exactly correct in this model. Filling balsa parts may be a different story, but the body tube seems to be a pretty straightforward one-and-done sort of thing.

I didn't have the same luck with my extra BD tube. Seems the grooves are deeper with that one. Got the decals on yet?

Decals, ha! This weekend I will be applying the blue, hopefully finished by next weekend or shortly thereafter.

I do have this though.

One more update on my Solar Warrior (sorry to hijack this thread again). The application of the decals was difficult because they are made to cover the entire length of the compound fins, and I might have gone a little overboard with beveling the leading and trailing edges. Consequently, the decals were a bit too big. The other issue was the finish. My paint looked great until I applied two coats of Painters Touch 2X clear gloss. Now it looks hazy. The humidity may have played a role because my black gloss that I was putting on another rocket that same night looks matte too.

Regardless, I flew it twice yesterday; both times on a D12-5, and both flights were perfect: ~800 ft, straight as an arrow, with gentle landings. I was really pleased.



But then disaster struck. (Disaster probably has the same name as my son.) We brought a bunch of kids to the launch, and they had a good time launching some simple E2X kits. But they were getting a little rambunctious toward the end of the day. As I was packing up the car, I noticed that I was missing a fin, the remnants were no where to be found, and no one was about to confess. I couldn't be too mad at the kids, but it was frustrating to put so much time into building something to then have it broken inadvertently. Since the kit is still on sale on the Estes website for under $7, I will probably buy another kit, use the precut fins for the repair, and then save the rest of the parts for future scratch builds. At least the fin that broke was the one with the worst decals.

If you used enamel it might be a little hazy.
Humidity usually doesn't effect enamels much.
Laquer on the other hand, will turn milky in high humidity.
Looks good in your picks though!