Enough is Enough

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eggtimer rocketry
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ThirstyBarbarian said:
I would have to agree that a large number of very valuable and prolific members have left, and the site is not as active or as vibrant as it used to be. But I'd say this is still the number 1 site for rocketry info. I've checked out the others that I've found, and the amount of activity doesn't compare. So, unfortunately,
this is not as good as it used to be, but it's still the best. maybe that will change. Keep checking the other sites.

The ads here are obnoxious and getting worse. And the owner does not give a poop and has reneged on promises related to controlling the kind of ad content served on the site. He promised no political ads, and still they are everywhere. He promised no sleazy dating sites, but still they get served up. It stinks. I made my own outreach to the owner about political ads, and he told me personally via PM, he would filter them, but he didn't. I tried to call attention to them with posts to the Feedback section. They were ignored. I made a real stink, and I got banned for a week.

Since then, I've just decided to use AdBlock Plus on my desktop machine and remove myself from contributing to ad revenue raised by the site. It seems counterproductive to me to serve such obnoxious ads that people will resort to blocking them, but that seems to be the policy. Unfortunately, my tablet does not support an ad blocker, so when I use that, I am still subjected to ads that seem to think I want to "browse" under-age Asian girls. I am sure it is just a matter of the owner setting a filter to fix the situation, but apparently the money made from sleaze is too much to pass up.

Face it. We will never get an explanation for why certain people were banned, and we will never have any influence over the ad content served on the site. For myself, I've decided I like coming here enough to put up with what I think is a bit of abuse of the membership by the owner. Every time this issue bubbles up and people get into protest mode, it just results in another person getting banned, or a few more getting pissed enough to leave. Nothing will be changed, anti it will all blow over again, making the sacrifice meaningless. I think it is basically "what you see is what you get," and if you don't like it, I would not blame you or anyone one bit for leaving.
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Respectfully,


If one doesn't like the ads, ante up and shut up. I am not part of the administration. If one is going to scab off the board for free you have absolutely no grounds to complain. Sure complain all you want but no one is under any obligation to service your needs. As a subscriber, I see no ads. Nada, not a thing, although I am not against the rocketry related ads that I used to see at the top. Technically it might not be possible to do that now so be it. I'm not upset over that.

Kurt
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
You've always seemed like more of an Ohioan to me.
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What's round on each end & stays high in the middle?

After all...the best track to be on, is having fun while building , flying & designing rockets.
A quick trip to the forum & share one's experiences & HELP others.....not argue or complain. We control our own destiny

There are plenty of other things that warrant that!
 
blackjack2564 said:
What's round on each end & stays high in the middle?

After all...the best track to be on, is having fun while building , flying & designing rockets.
A quick trip to the forum & share one's experiences & HELP others.....not argue or complain. We control our own destiny

There are plenty of other things that warrant that!
Click to expand...

Amen CJ. Keep it mostly to rockets. Try to be helpful to others. Remember that written communication lacks the information you get from verbally communicating so things you intend as sarcasm/joke can be easily misunderstood. Remember that there is an actual person on the receiving end of your comments.
 
ksaves2 said:
Respectfully,


If one doesn't like the ads, ante up and shut up. I am not part of the administration. If one is going to scab off the board for free you have absolutely no grounds to complain. Sure complain all you want but no one is under any obligation to service your needs. As a subscriber, I see no ads. Nada, not a thing, although I am not against the rocketry related ads that I used to see at the top. Technically it might not be possible to do that now so be it. I'm not upset over that.

Kurt
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no problem with ads in general, and I have said so many times. What I have a problem with is liars. We were told there would be no political ads and no sleazy ads, but there are. I researched what you have to do to as a site operator to filter ads served by AdSense on your site, and it is the easiest thing in the world --- a couple of checkboxes, and you're done. So basically, the site owner has decided that the money from political ads and sleaze ads is more important than his promise. Oh, well. Like I said in my post, you just have to decide if you can put up with it or not, because nothing is going to be done about it. Take it or leave it.
 
blackjack2564 said:
What's round on each end & stays high in the middle?

After all...the best track to be on, is having fun while building , flying & designing rockets.
A quick trip to the forum & share one's experiences & HELP others.....not argue or complain. We control our own destiny

There are plenty of other things that warrant that!
Click to expand...

I completely agree, we are all here to help one another... about the only community smaller than the rocketry community is the Calligraphy Guild my wife belongs to...
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
I have absolutely no problem with ads in general, and I have said so many times. What I have a problem with is liars. We were told there would be no political ads and no sleazy ads, but there are. I researched what you have to do to as a site operator to filter ads served by AdSense on your site, and it is the easiest thing in the world --- a couple of checkboxes, and you're done. So basically, the site owner has decided that the money from political ads and sleaze ads is more important than his promise. Oh, well. Like I said in my post, you just have to decide if you can put up with it or not, because nothing is going to be done about it. Take it or leave it.
Click to expand...

O.K., right, but if the revenue is needed so be it. I am with you about the politicos ads. If the admin is going to allow it, someone is going to discuss it and perhaps lead to more work in policing posts. If I was an admin I'd leave those out unless the operating revenue warrants between keeping the board up or taking it down. I've subscribed so I haven't seen what type of ads are present of late. I found it distracting to read and concentrate on the information disseminated with
the scrolling interspersed ads. I paid to get out of them and that has worked fine. If one can't afford it or won't pay they have to deal with it.

From what I have observed on forums is one must take caution and not be the least bit threatening to others. Sure respectful disagreements are absolutely fine but anything that smells libelous will put a forum operator on guard for fear of
getting hit by some legal action. (Holee cow, trying very hard to hold back about comments of "that" profession!! Must hold back! Must hold back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Ok, back now from passing out from holding my breath. I feel better....and no comments made to insult anyone real or imagined! Kurt
 
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The Internet is not free, contrary to a common belief of tech-hippies. It costs money to run the infrastructure, it costs money to create and maintain a web site, and the people who spent a good deal of their own money educating themselves to make a living doing such things expect a return on their investment. I have no problem whatsoever paying the piddling amount of money that the TRF management requests to become a registered user. Ads are a part of their business model; without them, I'd have to pay more, so I'll put up with a few banners knowing that doing so saves me money. I've even clicked through a few of them...
 
I think that this thread is proof that, "enough is most certainly NOT enough"

s6
 
markkoelsch said:
Much truth in what you say. ROL was a really good site, but really RP was the best site for rocketry at its peak. I do not think there was, nor is there, anything that was close including TRF.

Darrel, you are missed my friend. RIP.
Click to expand...

I share the same remorse. It'll be four years ago on August 9th when Darrell passed away at the age of 54. I hate it that he is gone.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrelldmobley
 
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tmacklin said:
I share the same remorse. It'll be four years ago on August 9th when Darrell passed away at the age of 54. I hate it that he is gone.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrelldmobley
Click to expand...

I am glad somebody is with me. I think about him often. Maybe the time has come for me to pen an article about Darrel, RP, and all that stuff. I wonder if anybody would find it interesting? Just like a list of quotes/ statements I have from a literal who's who in the hobby after his passing. I had intended on doing the Darrel portion on RP, but it was difficult system to work.
 
markkoelsch said:
I am glad somebody is with me. I think about him often. Maybe the time has come for me to pen an article about Darrel, RP, and all that stuff. I wonder if anybody would find it interesting? Just like a list of quotes/ statements I have from a literal who's who in the hobby after his passing. I had intended on doing the Darrel portion on RP, but it was difficult system to work.
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Post it, as many do not remember what he had done or that he even existed (the B.A.R's). I cut my teeth on ROL in `97, so I have a fond remembrance going back a little bit. I would like to read more, and maybe contribute where I can.
 
Woody

Not sure how much more you expect from a forum that will argue over how much water it takes to be true wet sanding.

I don't come here unless I have a specific purpose. Kind of like going to the hardware store. So, if you don't like it, that's fine. Moderation is the key.
 
ksaves2 said:
Shut off your sign-in and observe like a guest. You can get a taste of what it was like before you paid for your subscription. Those that sign up for a "free" service must contend with interspersed non-rocketry specific ads of various types.
Kurt
Click to expand...

I've done that too and no ads.
 
I look at the forum almost exclusively on my iPad, where Adblocker doesn't work. Almost as effective is ignoring the ads. I rarely even see them anymore until someone points them out.

Joe
 
As for the ads, I'm a paid member, and I still see them... but they just don't bother me, as I paid my little bit to help offset the owners cost of keeping this site open for us.
 
markkoelsch said:
I am glad somebody is with me. I think about him often. Maybe the time has come for me to pen an article about Darrel, RP, and all that stuff. I wonder if anybody would find it interesting? Just like a list of quotes/ statements I have from a literal who's who in the hobby after his passing. I had intended on doing the Darrel portion on RP, but it was difficult system to work.
Click to expand...
Mark-Please do the bit on Darrel. He really is the only reason I'm even here. I got burnt out on the flame wars and general bs (anybody remember AOL and Compuserve? BBS and chat rooms?) He encouraged me (nuch to the detriment of society in general) to get back on line. I've found some fine friends here and learned a lot of techniques I never would have figured out on my own. While surely we all stand on the shoulders of others, Darrel was a giant in on line rocketry. R.I.P., brother!
 
o1d_dude said:
Echoing DizWolf's sentiments...including the part where I own up to being a jerk.

If I were from Texas, people would describe me as a prickly Texan. Being from California, most just describe me as a New Yawker.
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Am I the only one that finds this hysterically funny??? BTW-I've been described as the prick from California. No Texas about that!
 
I have no problem with the ads. that's all fine.

But if the owners want to be paid for infrastructure, I want to be paid for the content I add to the site, variable to page views and rankings.. Only fair right?

The idea that non-paying members are scabbing along is BS when the owners add no content of their own.
 
TALON said:
I have been to Ohio only once. I went to the "Gathering of Mustangs & Legend's" airshow at Columbus in 07. All the locals I met were very friendly, Can not say anything bad from my experience. Had some friends that went to Dayton to visit the AF Museum on the way back to Texas. Again they commented on the friendly & knowledgeable volunteers at the museum. So I guess I will take that as a complement :wink:

To get this thread back on track, I understand the concern's and complants that are posted on this thread. But most, like the ads don't bother me, and the ones that do, well I will take my mom's advice at this point and time, "If you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut!" :sigh:
Click to expand...

hahahaha...
Me too........
From both parents though...
That was big in my family when we were young...

Dats funny....

Teddy
 
What are all these ads everyone's talking about? I'm getting banners at the top and bottom of the page, but that it.
 
DizWolf said:
I have no problem with the ads. that's all fine.

But if the owners want to be paid for infrastructure, I want to be paid for the content I add to the site, variable to page views and rankings.. Only fair right?

The idea that non-paying members are scabbing along is BS when the owners add no content of their own.
Click to expand...

The people that run this forum have to pay money to have it hosted and if they're not programmers they have to buy forum software, or pay people to create and update the forum software. It's not free to them.

So you think that if you create a build thread here and upload pictures without getting paid then the owners should also not get paid? I guess the forum software people should also not get paid? Your entitlement viewpoint doesn't work. Nobody owes you a rocketry forum regardless of what you post. The owners can't pay to host this website with anything except money. Server space isn't paid for with build threads or funny pictures. Forum content can't be used to keep a forum running.

Forum content CAN be used to attract more views, which will allow the ads to be more effective and raise more money for the owners, but that doesn't mean you can demand a slice of that pie for posting content. You've taken no risk, invested no money up front, if this forum stops making money and it has to fold you haven't lost anything. The people trying to get paid will lose what they've invested.

If you post build threads here are you getting screwed? Absolutely not. You're helping to build a place where other people will want to post threads that you'd enjoy. That's your payment. I've created multiple build threads that I think a lot of people enjoyed and I hope I get to post a few more. I hope you post some good stuff here and I hope a lot of other people post good threads. That makes it better for all of us, and that is our benefit for what we post.
 
DizWolf said:
I have no problem with the ads. that's all fine.

But if the owners want to be paid for infrastructure, I want to be paid for the content I add to the site, variable to page views and rankings.. Only fair right?

The idea that non-paying members are scabbing along is BS when the owners add no content of their own.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly that non-paying members are not scabs. We provide content. But I don't feel I'm owed any payment for the content I post, other than being able to view others' content in reciprocal fashion.

I used to be a paying member but have not renewed yet. I'm annoyed by the "insert image" button not being fixed over a period of months (I hate having to go to Advanced/manage attachments just to post a pic). I'm also unhappy with certain policies recently enacted, to the extent I'm not sure I want to pay to support them. Rocketry as a whole has taken a back seat for me this year due to other priorities, so I'm in wait-and-see mode.

Marc
 
When did we in America expect people to work and provide stuff for free?? I heard someone tell me... "I refuse to pay for an app" I thought, so will you come now my yard for free?"
I am willing to pay for a service or at least allow someone to make a profit. Having said that I don't blame someone being miffed at sleaze ads. So if your leaving for offensive ads, I can't blame you.

Good ole days are dependant on when you entered the hobby.

Being fairly new to the hobby I really appreciate all the knowledge that is shared on here, I need your guys expertise! So if your complaining about not much info, why don't you start an Info thread and share your knowledge. Start some scratch build thread and share your techniques.

I am starting a couple scratch builds and need some help! So I for one say " Don't go anywhere please, I need you " in return I will pay it forward to those around me, my kids, my 4-Hers etc.
 
My point wasn't that I want to be paid for content. My point is that calling non paying memeera leeches is BS. Without members, there's no content, no content, no ad revenue. If they're not making enough on ads, they're welcome to shut it down at any time.
 
This seemed appropriate... though modified slightly from the immortal Alan Iverson rant.

• Reporter: So you and coach Brown got caught up on Saturday about ads?
• Iverson: If I can't ignore adds, I can't ignore ads man. If I'm hurt, I'm hurt. I mean … simple as that. It ain't about that... I mean it's... It's not about that... At all. You know what I'm saying I mean... But it's...it's easy … to, to talk about... It's easy to sum it up when you're just talking about ads. We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about ads. I mean, listen, we're talking about ads, not a rocket, not a build, not a flight report, we talking about ads. Not a flight. Not, not … Not the build that I go out there and die for and fly every rocket like it's my last. Not the rocket, but we're talking about ads, man. I mean, how silly is that? … And we talking about ads. I know I supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example... I know that... And I'm not.. I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I do. I honestly do... But we're talking about ads man. What are we talking about? Ads? We're talking about ads, man. [laughter from the media crowd] We're talking about ads. We're talking about ads. We ain't talking about the rocket. [more laughter] We're talking about ads, man. When you come to the field, and you see me prep, you see me fly don't you? You've seen me give everything I've got, right? But we're talking about ads right now. We talking about pr... [Interrupted].
• Reporter: But it's an issue that your coach continues to raise?
• Iverson: Man look, I hear you... it's funny to me too, I mean it's strange... it's strange to me too, but we're talking about ads man, we're not even talking about the rocket... the actual rocket, when it matters... We're talking about ads …
 

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