"Code Red XL" - 5" x 98mm Project

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AlnessW

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Greetings all!

Time to get started on my next project. While the vast majority of this build will be documented on my website, I will certainly be posting things in this thread as well. You can view the build page here:

https://wilsonalness.com/rocketry/projects/CodeRedXL.html

Background
As many of you know, my L3 bird known as Code Blue, met a sad ending on its 5th flight last October. The CTI M840 White Longburn boosted it beautifully to about 21K, at which point the drogue didn’t deploy and the rocket came in ballistic. At 1000’, the main deployed which quickly shredded, zippered the upper airframe, while the rest of the rocket augured several feet into the desert floor. Nothing was salvageable except for the nosecone and GPS.

What I THINK happened on that flight was that in packing up the drogue chute, the long CTI 6-grain case protruded far enough into the drogue bay to muffle the chute up against the charges. This prevented them from cutting the shear pins on deployment. Either that or in transporting the prepped rocket all the way down to Black Rock for BALLS, then not being able to fly it and bringing it back home again, and then out to our club launch a month later, the charges got damaged somehow. (Say from moisture, leakage, etc.) I think scenario #1 feels more likely. I'll never know for certain, but in the future using larger backup charges sounds like a very wise idea, not to mention re-prepping BP charges should they need to sit around for a bit.

Anyway, back to business. That whole crash was a true heartbreak, but since I need a new big rocket, why not build a bigger one? :) “If at first you don’t succeed, plug in the turbocharger and try again!”

Design
Here is the basic layout of this rocket:

  • 5” x 66” slotted booster section.
  • 5” x 48” upper section.
  • 36” x 98mm motor mount.
  • 12” av-bay with 1” switch band, and CNC-stepped bulkheads.
  • 5” 5:1 Von Karman nosecone (filament-wound with aluminum tip).
  • 3 fins (3/16”).
  • 3 centering rings.
  • Electronics: Raven3 and MissileWorks RRC3.
  • Recovery: SkyAngle Cert-3 Drogue and SkyAngle Cert-3 XL Main. (May have to adjust these depending on final weight.)
All of the fiberglass components were ordered as a combo from ProLine Composites / Rocketry Warehouse and are in green fiberglass. Now, some of you may ask, “Why not just order a 6” Darkstar from Black Saturday?” Well, several reasons…

  • Never cared much for black fiberglass.
  • I really, really don’t like split fins.

    And last, but most importantly:
  • Scratch building is just way more fun. :wink:
The overall goal of this project is to fly it on big N’s/baby O’s or thereabouts. I intentionally made the fin section as long as possible for this exact reason. Mike Fisher is also machining me a custom 98mm case for this rocket – more on that later…

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Yesterday afternoon, FedEx delivered not 1, but 3 boxes on my doorstep. Like that wasn't exciting enough in itself!! (And note my clever juxtaposition.) :)

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Here she is after unboxing/unpacking. In the back from left to right: Fin section, upper section, and motor mount. Note that the motor mount is the exact same size/length as the main PARACHUTE bay in my L3...pretty impressive! In the middle from left to right: Nosecone, av-bay with switch band, and nosecone coupler. And in the front from left to right: Fins, bulkheads, and centering rings.

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For adhesives, I’ll be using Loctite E-120HP for most of this project. Several of our club members speak very highly of its strength, and I have always wanted to try it. McMaster-Carr sells this stuff by the syringe, as well as these mixer nozzles and dispensing gun.

I also still have plenty of Aeropoxy ES6209 leftover from my Tomach. However, while it cures very strong, I doubt I’ll be using it as much with this project due to the very long cure time.

Once again, I suggest you follow the build page on my website for more frequent updates, but rest assured I’ll keep you all in the loop here as well. Now to go start soaking/washing some fiberglass...can't wait to start building this thing. Also, as far as timing goes, my target launch date is BALLS. If things go well, it may fly at our next club launch in August, however BALLS seems more likely at this point.

Thanks for stopping by!
 
Looks like an awesome project, Wilson! If the build schedule goes to plan, will we get to see this beast in Brothers in October?

Also, noob question: The Loctite epoxy...does the dispensing gun just control the discharge so you get a perfect mix, or does it mix as you pull the trigger allowing you to apply it straight to the work area?

-Brian Clark
 
Looks like an awesome project, Wilson! If the build schedule goes to plan, will we get to see this beast in Brothers in October?

Also, noob question: The Loctite epoxy...does the dispensing gun just control the discharge so you get a perfect mix, or does it mix as you pull the trigger allowing you to apply it straight to the work area?

-Brian Clark
Good to hear from you, Brian! Thanks for the kind words. Do I see that this is your first post as well? Welcome to TRF!

Yep, definitely plan to fly this thing out at Brothers in October. Hope to see you there? That launch can be fun as we BALLS flyers often have some bigger stuff leftover to fly.

As far as Loctite goes, yes - the dispensing gun ensures that the proper amount of resin/hardener are used. (2:1 in the case of E-120HP.) The mixer nozzles are what allow you to apply epoxy directly to the surface you're bonding. If you take a look closely, you'll notice the nozzles have little fins inside them to mix the epoxy as it is being dispensed. Without the nozzles, you can always just mix by hand in a cup.
 
OMG .... Wlson is biggerin...

I am really looking forward to seeing this build and fly!!

I still have that 4" Tru-Core 4 grain case.... all we need is propellant.
 
Yeah, I guess that was my first post. I joined in December when Brian H and I were just finding out about HPR, but hadn't had a reason to post yet.

Thanks for the follow-up. I might have to order some of that epoxy and give it a go. I have pretty much exclusively used 5-minute epoxy from Tammie's so far.

You will see me in October, and actually, contrary to my original plan, it looks like I will be there in August as well! Combined with Sheridan, I will make 3 big launches in a row, so hopefully I will be an NAR L2 before the year is over. My Partizon is ready for another L1 attempt, and then I'm about half way done with the Hyperloc 835 for an L2 attempt in August.


Back on topic, another question about your project: How did you decide on the altimeters, and are you not using one of the telemetry units for tracking?

BC
 
Looks good, Wilson. But, where's the payload bay for that stand-up mixer?

David
 
OMG .... Wlson is biggerin...

I am really looking forward to seeing this build and fly!!

I still have that 4" Tru-Core 4 grain case.... all we need is propellant.
Indeed, sir! Good deal on that 4G 98mm case.

Yeah, I guess that was my first post. I joined in December when Brian H and I were just finding out about HPR, but hadn't had a reason to post yet.

Thanks for the follow-up. I might have to order some of that epoxy and give it a go. I have pretty much exclusively used 5-minute epoxy from Tammie's so far.

You will see me in October, and actually, contrary to my original plan, it looks like I will be there in August as well! Combined with Sheridan, I will make 3 big launches in a row, so hopefully I will be an NAR L2 before the year is over. My Partizon is ready for another L1 attempt, and then I'm about half way done with the Hyperloc 835 for an L2 attempt in August.

Back on topic, another question about your project: How did you decide on the altimeters, and are you not using one of the telemetry units for tracking?

BC
Loctite can be a nice way to go as it is super easy to use with the dispensing gun/mixer nozzles, and bonds strong. It is pretty expensive, but well worth it. (I use 9462 as well.) Regarding 5-minute hobby epoxy, its strength is often laughed at around here, but I've been impressed with it before.

Glad to hear we'll see you in August, as well! Your plan for getting your L1 and L2 done by the end of the year sounds perfect.

Altimeters? Fly what you know, and know what you fly. This past year or so, I've been experimenting with Ravens and have been very pleased with them so far. (Currently I own a pair of Raven2's, though one was "misplaced" last weekend.) I also flew an RRC3 in my L3, and it's just a great altimeter that's well made, good price, and hard to mess up. For tracking, I use the BRB900 system by Greg Clark, OROC member and owner of BigRedBee.

Looks good, Wilson. But, where's the payload bay for that stand-up mixer?

David
Thanks David for stopping by! Payload bay? :)
 
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Bathtub photo...except the fin section didn't fit very well!

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Middle and forward centering rings attached, then we sand all surfaces with 120-grit sandpaper to be glued in preparation for fin can assembly. An orbital sander is a godsend here. After that is complete, I go over again with 80-grit on a sanding block.

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I couldn't help but do a quick dry-fit at this point... :)

Motor mount and fin #1 were glued into place last night, followed by fin #2 today. More to come soon!
 
Set fin number 3 of 3 today!
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All standard stuff here.
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Next up = fillets.
 
Looks awesome, man. I think Rocketober is going to be really fun because people will bring all the big stuff they didn't get to launch in August.

With a fiberglass rocket like this, it looks like you don't do the thing where you set the fins, then remove the whole fin can and build up a bunch of internal fillets, then re-install it. Is that true? If so, what is the best way to ensure the strongest construction in the that area?

Brian C
 
Looks awesome, man. I think Rocketober is going to be really fun because people will bring all the big stuff they didn't get to launch in August.

With a fiberglass rocket like this, it looks like you don't do the thing where you set the fins, then remove the whole fin can and build up a bunch of internal fillets, then re-install it. Is that true? If so, what is the best way to ensure the strongest construction in the that area?

Brian C
Thanks again Brian! I think you're exactly right about Rocketober - that launch often sees big projects, and possibly even more so following the loss of Desert Heat!

Correct, I am not doing the "modular" (as it is sometimes called) fin can assembly for this project. A way to do so would be cut or Dremel out the very ends of the fin slots, extending them all the way to the end of the tubing. But there are several ways to add extra strength without having to remove the fin can. For example, adding internal fillets along the motor tube. Another method is injecting fillets through holes drilled along the fins, but that's always struck me as way overkill and a ton of extra work. My favorite approach is to pour expanding foam into the fin can. But more on that later...
 
Did the first set of fillets last night, still with Loctite E-120HP as with the rest of this project.
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3rd and final set of fillets - no, this isn't the same picture...
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As usual, the 3rd set turned out about the best. I have to say, doing fillets with a dispensing gun/mixer nozzle is like something out of a dream. Was also thankful I bought plenty of epoxy, since with big fins you use about 1 cartridge (1.69 oz) per set of fillets.

Rail button attachments in place using #8-32 T-nuts attached inside the airframe with a dollop of epoxy.
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Thanks! Yes, forward.

That keeps being a problem for me, partially because I insist on easily replaceable buttons as well as backing hardware. The linear force while torquing threads keeps popping my backing hardware off the airframe inside.
 
That keeps being a problem for me, partially because I insist on easily replaceable buttons as well as backing hardware. The linear force while torquing threads keeps popping my backing hardware off the airframe inside.
Rubber-Insulated Rivet Nuts

You might think about "well nuts". Can get them at McMaster-Carr, etc. No backing needed. Don't need to screw into a centering ring either. Drill the correct size hole, insert the well nut, screw in your rail button and tighten up. The rubberized design of the well nut will tighten and grab the wall of the airframe similar to a molly bolt in a sheetrock wall. Maintains a little flexibility which is a nice feature as you place on the rail. I've used on big projects. They work and are reliable.

david
 
That keeps being a problem for me, partially because I insist on easily replaceable buttons as well as backing hardware. The linear force while torquing threads keeps popping my backing hardware off the airframe inside.[/QUOTERubber-Insulated Rivet Nuts

You might think about "well nuts". Can get them at McMaster-Carr, etc. No backing needed. Don't need to screw into a centering ring either. Drill the correct size hole, insert the well nut, screw in your rail button and tighten up. The rubberized design of the well nut will tighten and grab the wall of the airframe similar to a molly bolt in a sheetrock wall. Maintains a little flexibility which is a nice feature as you place on the rail. I've used on big projects. They work and are reliable.

david

+1 Well nuts work great. I've found there tend to be lots of defective ones, so check before flying, but having removable rail buttons can be helpful.
 
That keeps being a problem for me, partially because I insist on easily replaceable buttons as well as backing hardware. The linear force while torquing threads keeps popping my backing hardware off the airframe inside.
I think my solution would solve both problems? T-nuts work well as backing hardware, and the tines are about the right length so that the threads are flush with the outer airframe.

More visuals coming later today!
 
Mostly-completed fin can, ready for expanding foam.
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Nosecone hardware - bulkhead with 5/16" forged eyebolt, #10-24 x 3" machine screws, #10-24 x 1/2" machine screws, and #10-24 hex couplers.
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Like almost all of my projects, I use Vern Knowles-style nosecone anchors to secure the bulkhead. First, we tack the anchors in place using hobby epoxy.
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Then, give them 2 layers of Kevlar and West Systems epoxy. For some reason, this particular nosecone seemed pretty intent on giving me trouble. First, one of the anchors got out of alignment somehow, requiring me to re-align and reset it...@#$%... Then, also my some means I knocked the aluminum tip loose. Anyways...
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Finished nosecone.
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Bulkhead installed.
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Foam anyone?
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While we wait for the expanding foam to cure, time to take a look at recovery components. On the left, we have 100' of blue 1" tubular nylon from REI. Going conservative this time, I went with 1" as opposed to the usual 9/16". Each section will house about 50' of harness, 4x the length of the rocket which is more than enough. Chutes are a Cert-3 drogue and Cert-3 XL main from SkyAngle. Since SkyAngle/b2 Rocketry doesn't sell direct, I ordered the chutes from Chris Short who then had them drop-shipped to me.
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This thread is getting lonely...so time for some updates!

Recently, I've been finding myself adding things to my "punch" list faster than I'm crossing them off...and we're leaving for Black Rock in a week! Onwards and upwards:

Assembled av-bay components - CNC-stepped bulkheads, and all-threads/forged eyebolts. Note I upped the hardware to 5/16" (as opposed to 1/4") since it seemed like a better fit for this size an av-bay. I don't know why, but for some reason I've always enjoyed building these things.
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This project was just the...er, "excuse" I needed to buy a nice new Raven3. I just love the fact that he ships these in jewelry boxes.
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I also picked up a new RRC3 from MissileWorks Cyber Monday last year (after I crunched my old one), and it had yet to see any action this season. What better opportunity to throw it onboard as a backup!
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Completed and wired sled with mounted altimeters and MissileWorks screw switches. Despite using a terminal block (as I usually do), the Raven wiring didn't come out quite as glamorous as I had hoped, but she'll do. Adding some cable ties seemed to help.
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Those with an eye for detail may notice that all 4 of the Raven channels are hooked up. When I ordered that altimeter, I "remembered" that it had 4 channels. Since I really care about getting this rocket back safely, why not use them? Hence, my backup charges will contain 2 ematches each - 1 from the RRC3, and the other from the Raven. For all who are interested, the programming will likely look something like this:

Drogue primary - Raven3, apogee baro.
Drogue backup - RRC3 apogee delay, plus Raven3 apogee accel delay.
Main primary - Raven3, 1000' AGL.
Main backup - RRC3 800' AGL, plus Raven3 750' AGL.

1010 rail buttons attached along with nylon spacers from McMaster.
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All 3 (not 2, but 3) rail buttons installed.
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Time for a little pose - I am 5' 11" as a reference...
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I also did a test load on my pad yesterday. Of course, it was easy to do without a loaded motor in it! This will likely be the biggest "workout" my tower has gotten to date - time to use it for what I built it for.
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Congrats Wilson, look forward to hearing a lot more about this project and flight at RocketOber!! Be sure to bring her!
 
Wilson had a good weekend.

Manny is absolutely right! Posted above is a photo he took of me doing the "patented Manny-victory pose."

Congrats Wilson, look forward to hearing a lot more about this project and flight at RocketOber!! Be sure to bring her!
Thanks Rob - yep, this bird will absolutely fly at Rocketober.

Before I left for Black Rock, I added a few finishing touches like vent holes, a nosecone tip shoulder, and motor retainer. In my haste to finish, I don't have any visuals of these as of yet - but the motor retainer simply consists of T-nuts in the aft centering ring, #8-32 machine screws, and washers. Quick and dirty.

I finished mixing this motor the day before I left for Black Rock, mostly thanks to issues with my vacuum but that’s why you use fast curative.
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Another issue I ran into before I left was that I accidently “bricked” the microcontroller in my RRC3 while trying to program it with a PerfectFlite data kit. I had talked to Jim Amos via phone and apparently this was the second time he had heard of this problem, and it required me to send him the altimeter for repairs. But I didn’t drive all the way down there for nothing, so I decided to “risk” it with just flying the Raven by itself. All 4 pyros were hooked up and I used big backup charges, so barring any altimeter issues I knew the rocket would come back safely.

Flight report:

I went out to the tower with a big support crew – Dave, Steve, Manny, etc. who were all a huge help in wrestling the big 55 lb. rocket on to the pad. As we were doing so, I had a scary “deja vu” moment from last year when it was announced that operations were on hold due to wind and low visibility from dust. Thankfully...that all blew by and we were back in business in no time. I tightened the straps, armed the Raven, put the igniter in and retreated. This was my biggest motor to date, biggest EX motor to date, AND my largest rocket to date, so I was just a little nervous.
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Photo credit to Dave Camarillo.

Getting this thing off the ground was a huge pain thanks to a slow LCO and the large backup of flights. I probably called Waysie 5 times on the radio before he even acknowledged I was there. Getting more and more frustrated as he’s launching H and I motors off the close-by pads completely ignoring me, I was about ready to march over to my controller and just push the button when he finally responds. Cooled down but still nervous, I hit the button and the motor chuffed like crazy, likely due to not getting the igniter all the way to the top of the motor. I probably lost a bit of impulse there which was too bad, but when it finally came up to pressure, the big N roared off the pad on its way to 20,491’. It was such a gorgeous flight and I was jumping up and down like a little kid. (Just not using “little kid commentary”...) ;)

GPS indicated I had a drogue out, followed by a main at 1000’. Manny spotted the big Cert-3 XL chute about 2 miles north of the pad, and we drove straight to it. The wind was dragging the chute, good thing my rocket didn’t have any paint yet. Upon recovery we noticed only the nosecone and upper section were there – the fin section and drogue were still MIA. So we drove back towards the pad in search of it, when Steve/Manny spotted my chute right in-line with the bearing. Turns out I made the age-old mistake of...you guessed it...forgetting to connect a quick-link. It must have slipped my mind when I put the 2 sections together and added shear pins. No damage.

Then, this bird flew again on Sunday. Pete Ekstrom from Team Numb was still looking for someone to fly his Alumaflame N6000, a leftover motor from last year’s keg rocket sustainer. Turns out my rocket was the ideal candidate, so I re-prepped and was back on the pad by late-morning. But the jokers (Aksrockets, tuxxi, etc) whom I had run my flight card over to the LCO table changed my rocket name to “Time for Dinner.” (I have no idea why…probably just to screw with me.) The big blue motor really got my rocket moving, but it spit casting tube on the way up. No issues with recovery this time! It landed about a mile from the pad and hit 16,531’. Awesome way to close out the weekend.
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Recovery team on Sunday.
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Raven files below - and videos will follow!
 

Attachments

  • Code Red XL Flight #2 EX N6000.FIPa
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  • Code Red XL Flight #1 EX N3500.FIPa
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A few other pre-flight photos I forgot to post...

48" x 98mm N motor case (98/17500) by Mike Fisher. This case took a long time to get due to order backlogs, out-of-spec tubing, and machinists having to go to the ER, but was well worth the wait.
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Assembled and completed motor.
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