Minimum fin thickness?

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FishInferno

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I am wondering how thick fins have to be to prevent fluttering. I would Like to get the fins for my latest build as thin as possible, preferably only a couple sheets of card stock thick. The rocket flies on 18mm engines, it is 4cm wide and about 10 cm tallImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1437689896.173218.jpg
Sorry for upside down-ness
 
3/32" Balsa or 1/8" Balsa or Basswood would be fine, especially if papered on both sides. You could get away with papered 1/16" basswood fins but a hard landing might well break them.
 
Thanks for your feedback. I will probably use cardboard because that's what has worked for me in the past (low-budget operation here)
 
I have an A-streamer duration model that uses 1/64 inch (0.4mm) plywood fins (FlisKits Cougar 660). No issues there. I've also used quite a bit of 1/32 inch (0.8mm) bass wood for small competition types of my own design just because it's stiff and smooth and easy to work with.

Susceptibility to flutter will depend on stiffness, the fin's shape, and how solidly it's mounted among other things.
 
It's very Kerbal to have fins fall off upon launch. :) I hope you choose the AV-T1 Winglet style!
 
Another option is waferglass, or very thin G-10 fiberglass. ASP rocketry sells it in the form of pre-cut fins https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecommerce/Pre-Cut-G10-Fiberglass-Fins.cfm?cat_id=68 and sheets https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecommerce/G-10-Fiberglass-Sheet.cfm?cat_id=67. I think 0.016" (1/64") is the absolute thinnest you would want to go - I'm planning to fly fins of that thickness on my B-altitude models at NARAM. Of course, that doesn't meant there won't be fin flutter, just means I'm using them.

I _think_ that their egglofting kit (which can handle an E motor) has their 0.020 fins, but I didn't measure before building, so I can't guarantee that. After airfoiling, I could imagine cutting myself on the trailing edge - they are that thin. Anyway, just another option. Andy's prices are reasonable, and the customer service has always been great.

I use thick CA to attach and create fillets.
 
I've Successfully used Clear Polycarbonate fins on Scale models as thin as .010" without flutter. I've also used 1/64" and 3/64" 3ply Plywood on 18mm models very often. Another useful "Thin" fin material is G-10/FR4 Garolite (WaferGlass) Film in .005", .010" and .015" thickness available from McMaster-Carr in 12"x 12" Sheets.

Your model looks like a "scale like" model and would benefit greatly from Clear Polycarbonate fins attached & fillets of 5 or 30minute epoxy. Note" the fillets do yellow over time;)

View attachment 011c2-sm_Cutting .030in clear Lexan base fins_08-28-07.JPG

View attachment 011b1-sm_Orig & test .75in dia Shuttle Fin units_08-28-07.JPG

View attachment 011g1-sm_Completed replacement fin units_08-29-07.JPG

090-sm_M48-A5 Vampire Tank Odd-RocPMC_03-02-91.jpg
 
Having designed and built a lot of paper models, I know a bit about it. Two layers of cardstock (100#) will flutter a lot. It will not be stiff enough. You want to sandwich a piece of thin cardboard (like heavy box material or thin Bristol board) inside. The technique I use is what I call the floating fin core method. Use one piece of 110# card for the outer skin and design it so the two halves fold around the leading edge - this will give you a rounded leading edge. Cut the core so it is about 1/8" smaller than the actual fin - use the same pattern but take 1/8" from the tip and trailing edges, keeping the core flush with the leading edge and the root. Next, you want to glue the core into the fin, but only apply glue to the root edge of the core. Glue the fin closed with glue at the root, tip and trailing edges, and burnish the cardstock down (burnishing helps the white glue grab better). Trim the tip and trailing edge so they are clean (helps to make one side of the fin a bit larger than the other and just trim off the excess). By only gluing the core into the fin wrap at the root, you will avoid a lot of the potential warping. You will still want to press the fin under a heavy book to dry. Another trick to minimize warping of cardstock fins is to lay it out so the leading edge is at a 45degree angle to the long axis of the page - paper has a grain just like wood does and it is usually along the longer axis of the sheet, at least for 110# card. Laying it out at 45degrees means that when you fold the fin at the leading edge, the grain of each side will be 90degrees to the other side.

Hope these tips help!
 
I was thinking, since cardboard is hollow, if I pointed it the right way, would the fins almost double as tube fins as well?

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1437837795.467205.jpg
 
Maybe? The open edges would certainly add drag and help move the CP aft. But the fin could buckle along the corrogations...you'd need to stiffen outer skins somehow to prevent that. And maybe soak the open edges wIth Thin CA to keep them from collapsing.
 
Well it looks like you're determined to follow your own course with this. I agree with M Rich that CA soaked corrugated cardboard would make a serviceable fin. Kinda ugly, not very durable IMO. I do like DIY scrounged material rocketry though.
 
Thanks both of u for the advice. I guess the best way to learn is to experiment and see what happens. I have used cardboard fins in the past and they held up pretty well.

I do like DIY scrounged material rocketry though.

Yeah I enjoy the challenge of finding things around the house that can serve as rocket parts.
 
I was thinking, since cardboard is hollow, if I pointed it the right way, would the fins almost double as tube fins as well?

View attachment 268433

I doubt it. Tube fins lose their effectiveness between 3 and 4 calibers or so. In the case of corrugated cardboard, the caliber would be a lot higher since it would be based on each of the small tubes within the cardboard. If tube fins are too long, the turbulence inside stops the air flow. At one point I read that about 2 calibers is optimal. So I don't think you would actually get much air flowing through there.
 
Ok I attached the fins and they seem sturdy, Nd I did the spin test and, after adding weight to the nose, the rocket looks to be flying straight. I just have a question about the launch lug.

Is is OK to place it below the CG in order to make it not inconspicuous? Here's what I had in mind:
ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1437869105.363049.jpg

For reference, the CG is about at the second grey mark up from the fins.

And will this placement have any negative effect on airflow around the fin?
 
That location looks to be a bit far back for my taste, preferably I would place it with the upper end at the CG and the rest going back toward the CP.
 

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