best glue for balsa?

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neil_w

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I'll be undertaking my first real build as a BAR soon (about 35 years since my last one), and will be using CWF as my filler/sealer. What glue is recommended for the balsa parts nowadays? I always used Elmer's white glue way back when (for everything, pretty much), but I know there's also yellow wood glue and other variations as well. Before I just charge ahead again with the white stuff, I figured I'd check in here for advice.

Once my stuff arrives from Amazon and I get started, I'll probably do a build thread so I can publicly humiliate myself.

Thanks!
 
Welcome back and welcome to the forum. Good old Elmer's Glue All is still a perfectly good adhesive for paper and wood joints on model rockets. That said, I personally use Titebond II yellow wood glue for most of my builds now. Two places where I don't use either is for tube couplers and motor mounts. The quick "grab", especially of the yellow wood glue, makes it tricky to place the parts before they are locked into place. For those parts, I use Gorilla polyurethane glue. One thing you may remember from your youth is the double glue joint -

"The best way to attach balsa or fiber fins to a rocket with white glue is by using a “double glue joint”. Apply a layer of glue to the root edge of a fin and a thin layer of
glue to the body tube where the fin will be attached. Do this for all fins and allow this glue to dry. Then apply a second line of glue to the root edge and press the fin in place onto the body, holding it in place until the glue begins to set."

https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/2819_Estes_Model_Rocketry_Technical_Manual.pdf

BTW you are upholding a great tradition for new posters here on the forum by starting a glue thread. :)

Now, whadaya building ?
 
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+1 on what samb said. Tightbond II was what I switched to from Elmer's yellow wood. All are fine actually, Tightbond being much stronger. If you use it for couplers, like I do, be mindful that you practice your installation and prep your parts for a fast application. KNOW YOUR DESTINATION. It does set real fast because the inside of the tube and the outside of the coupler are quite porous. When in doubt, whip the white out. As a follow-up on the double glue joint. Another step to consider is removing the glassine where the fin will attach before you apply the glue. I have found it penetrates the tube better as opposed to gluing to the glassine. No fin shears here.
 
Thanks for the quick responses!

Welcome back and welcome to the forum. Good old Elmer's Glue All is still a perfectly good adhesive for paper and wood joints on model rockets. That said, I personally use Titebond II yellow wood glue for most of my builds now. Two places where I don't use either is for tube couplers and motor mounts. The quick "grab", especially of the yellow wood glue, makes it tricky to place the parts before they are locked into place. For those parts, I use Gorilla polyurethane glue.

Sounds reasonable. Do you use the Titebond for filleting as well? Do you apply the double-glue joint the same way?

One thing you may remember from your youth is the double glue joint -

Yes, although the details were a bit fuzzy. No longer!

BTW you are upholding a great tradition for new posters here on the forum by starting a glue thread. :)

Ha! I actually tried searching before I posted, but I couldn't seem to home in on a good set of results, so I just punted.

Now, whadaya building ?

Estes Solar Warrior. Seemed like a good one to ease me back in.

Gary Byrum said:
Another step to consider is removing the glassine where the fin will attach before you apply the glue.

Now that is something I never tried. I'll have to see if I feel comfortable with that on my first go. Concept certainly makes sense.
 
Now that is something I never tried. I'll have to see if I feel comfortable with that on my first go. Concept certainly makes sense.[/COLOR]

A HPR chick I know turned me on to that little kernel of knowledge. It's a good one too. You will want to be careful to not cut too much away from the airframe though. It's a little painstaking, but insurance nonetheless. I usually go with a rectangle surface cut, slightly shorter than the fin, (hides the cutaway) and barely wider than the fin. Your fillet will cover the cut in the end. The glassine is weaker than the tube it's adhered to, so it makes good sense. I use it on every build. Welcome back to the hobby!
 
I'm another firm user of Titebond II. I use Titebond Molding and Trim glue (now called for "No Run, No Drip Wood glue) for couplers & motor mounts and it is the best for fin fillets. I will scrape off the glassine off the tube with an exato knife. I use the fin line as guide, and I do it lightly and carefully. Remember you don't have to scape off just the fin thickness. I try to keep it at the thickness of the fin, but if I mess up an scrape off a little more, the width of the fin fillets will cover that mistake. I will then draw the fin line again, and poke some holes along the fin line. This will create a glue rivet. Then I use the double glue joint to attach the fins. I haven't had a structural failure yet with these glues and techniques.


AND WELCOME to the MADNESS!!!:cool:
 
Sound like Titebond II is my choice once my stash of Ambroid is used up.
 
...
Sounds reasonable. Do you use the Titebond for filleting as well? Do you apply the double-glue joint the same way?
...

The fillets are done the traditional way; small bead of glue followed by a wet finger. The double glue method gives you an almost super glue like grab for the fin attachment.

The Titebond No-Run No-Drip may be hard to find on the shelf. It's a thicker formula that makes the fillet process go faster.

View attachment 268268

That Solar Warrior looks like a nice model.

It occurred to me that there are some great builders who share the wealth here but one guy stands out (IMHO) for going the extra mile to document many best practices - hcmbanjo: https://www.nar.org/educational-resources/model-rocket-building-techniques/

Sound like Titebond II is my choice once my stash of Ambroid is used up.

Now there's an old school glue I haven't tried; didn't know it was still made.
 
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I'm using Gorilla Wood Glue to be different and I really like it. I get less bubbles in the fillet, don't know why but it just applies smoother. Walmart carries both here so I thought I'd give it a try and I don't regret the decision.

I've used a lot of Titebond and there's nothing wrong with it. Long time ago there was Titebond Whipped Wood Glue but it disappeared from the scene really fast. Quickest drying I've ever used, sure miss the stuff.
 
U se Titebond II on everything. The only time you need to use epoxy is when you are gluing "unlike" materials such as plastic and wood or cardboard. Epoxy is good for FG and CF rockets? I know a lot guys build their rockets using epoxy on everything and its one of those to each their own kind of thing
 
Guess I'll give the Titebond II a try (how much should I buy?:y:), and see if I can scare up a bottle of the no run no drip stuff, that sounds pretty useful to have around as well. And I'll have my usual array of white glue, yellow glue, epoxy, and CA just in case.

samb said:
It occurred to me that there are some great builders who share the wealth here but one guy stands out (IMHO) for going the extra mile to document many best practices - hcmbanjo: https://www.nar.org/educational-resou...ng-techniques/

I've been reading his blog for a little while but that's a great collection of reference material all in one place, thanks for the link.

TALON said:
I will then draw the fin line again, and poke some holes along the fin line. This will create a glue rivet.

That's another new one to me.

I guess the only way to try out all these techniques is to just go and build a lot of rockets.:wink:
 
Guess I'll give the Titebond II a try, how much should I buy

I usually get the 16 oz bottle because it lasts me quite a while. Although, you may not like the applicator. I know I don't. I keep a couple of empty Elmer's 4 oz bottles around that have the cone shaped pointy applicator, and just keep refilling it. It's much easier to handle the 4 oz bottle than that large Tightbond bottle.
 
I used to stupidly assume that the numbers on Tightbond indicate more advanced and therefore better. Y'know, "Ooh, there's a Tightbond III; it must be better than that old II." I recently read the application information on the backs of Tightbond Original, II, and III bottles, and decided to go with original. But really, Original, II, III, Elmers white, Elmers yellow, Gorilla yellow: they're not all the same but they're all good enough.

I've never had a grabbing problem with any of the above except when I was trying to insert a coupler way down a tube to reinforce it, which I should have known wouldn't work. As someone noted earlier, knowing your exact destination is critical; it will grab the moment you stop moving, so don't stop until you're right on the line and you'll be fine. If that's a problem then use something less grabby, like (Gorilla or other brand) PU glue or epoxy.

I have trouble with fin attachment when I can't use a jig. I have poor vision and worse hand-eye coordination, so it's very hard to put them on straight. You might think I need a glue with plenty of adjustment time, but actually I need just the opposite. I can get the fin straight for a moment but can't really hold it well. So I use two drops of thick CA, one near each end of the root to get the fin attached initially. It can be easily broken free and done over if needed. Then a little thin CA wicks into the joint the rest of the way along the root, and finally come the Tightbond fillets. On the other hand, if I have a jig then it's Tightbond all the way like everything else.

As for the glassine, I just sand it off, deliberately wide enough for the both the fin and fillets. I go with 400 grit and light pressure until I detect the barest hint of the fuzzies, which will be covered over with the Tightbond.

Last is the applicator. I find the wide Tightbond bottle top OK for fin fillets, and for most everything else I screw the top off the bottle and use a scrap balsa stick as an applicator. It's quite good enough for quantity control and positioning, and perfect for reaching up inside tubes (like for forward centering rings.)
 
I've never had a fin fail to stick because of the glassine coating; when I have one torn off, the fin always includes some of the tube surface (i.e. the glassine stuck so well that it tore away). Thus, I don't worry about it.

As to glues, I use yellow wood glue (though my wife and daughter insist it is tan, not yellow) for everything except engine mounts; for them, I use 30 minute epoxy, giving me a lot of time to insert and align the engine mount just how I want it.
 
I use Titebond III in the green bottle because it's the next number above the II and it's more expensive, so it must be better. From what I have been reading on this thread, it sounds like Titebond II is just as good. This is good to know because now I can save a little money and start buying the TiteBond II.
 
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My own thinking was that a rocket is close enough to an indoor application for TB Original (the cheap stuff) to make sense. It should stand up to very brief water exposure, like landing in a slightly damp field, when you consider that it's covered with paint. And if it ends up dunked in water, the glue is the least of my worries, at the cardboard body tube will be ruined. So my natural stinginess wins the day.
 
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