Just how healthy are our vendors and MR industry in general?

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KenECoyote said:
Hi Dave,

Actually, I think that waiting to buy stuff only on BF/BS is a great idea...I was already starting to curb purchases to save up for that period; however most people don't or can't do this. I also buy a lot of items "off-season" as well as on clearance and I never think that the people paying full price for those items are "not-smart" ;), but instead I think that I'm a saavy shopper who buys wisely. Just like couponing, it's not for everyone, but for those who can do it, they make off very well and in some cases (of couponing) can even get products for free.
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It's great for us in the short term. Cheap kits!!!! yay!!!! But we've got Rocketry warehouse blowing out the market with hump day sales and filling closets up, and Wildman and Madcow having CRAY CRAY 50% off sales on current kits every Black weekend..... It's fun and we get cheap kits..... but is it going to wind up with all three cutting each others throats, and we wind up losing one or more vendors? I worry about that, and the overall health.

There have been so many kits dumped into stockpiles this year, I wonder If we can blow them up and and crash them fast enough.... We could see a depressed market, and I don't know if the vendors can survive that..... That economic impact is all I refer to.
 
Estes dumps a bunch of kits cheap most holidays. So guess what. I dont carry many of there kits. Easy ix for me.
 
DizWolf said:
It's great for us in the short term. Cheap kits!!!! yay!!!! But we've got Rocketry warehouse blowing out the market with hump day sales and filling closets up, and Wildman and Madcow having CRAY CRAY 50% off sales on current kits every Black weekend..... It's fun and we get cheap kits..... but is it going to wind up with all three cutting each others throats, and we wind up losing one or more vendors? I worry about that, and the overall health.

There have been so many kits dumped into stockpiles this year, I wonder If we can blow them up and and crash them fast enough.... We could see a depressed market, and I don't know if the vendors can survive that..... That economic impact is all I refer to.
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RW is a very interesting model...from what I see they are able to sell at low prices by having a base of high volume production parts (gets cheaper the more you make and the more it is "standard") and sell different models based on that with slight variations in between. This is great for those who don't need fancy designs or elaborate instructions, but it fills a certain niche market and doesn't necessarily compete in the same lines as AT, MadCow, Estes, etc. I think it's great to have them as a choice!

Regarding worried about the vendors, that's really for them to worry. They know how low they can go and if they go too low, they may hurt themselves, but sometimes they also have no choice. Along this same line (and also in partial response to the recent post), I'm wondering what Estes is doing selling pretty much wholesale to the public on their site during sales. Perhaps that's their way to clear extra merchandise rather than sell to a liquidator or maybe it's a test to see if they can increase direct internet sales, but to me I would think it would really cause a rift with your retailers since you're undercutting them. This practice, while I'm personally benefiting from it, is worrisome to me since it is sometimes a sign of a desperate move for a company to stay solvent...just a random thought.

As a side note, one of my personal obsessions is trying to predict system failures and how things can go wrong (similar to Chaos Theory). I worked for a year at my company as a Strategic Planning Specialist where we had to do organizational planning on what will/can go wrong implementing significant organizational changes and to put plans in place to manage them. I've also predicted the Recession a year before it occurred and it happened just as I predicted. These things don't necessarily mean I'm correct about what I write, but I just wanted to add that I probably think about these things and view them differently than many people.
 
Hope I'm not hijacking - but being in the racing industry for a number of years, I spent $ thousands on my at track setup, travel items, trailer, truck and pay to pull this mobile sales station, spend my weekend only to find that people would complain when I would sell an item at retail I.e $80 set of goggles that customers say they can buy online for $75 and get free shipping. I delivered it to them for cryin out loud. Oh yea and a made $20 freakin on it lol. Bad business model I know,
So being on that side of it - I don't mind paying a vendor to sell me something at a launch, I'll pay it within reason.

I've never been a BF sale guy mainly because I'm usually doing family things during that time but looking at what sold last year... I'll be sneaking off to the computer sometime on Friday
 
KenECoyote said:
As a side note, one of my personal obsessions is trying to predict system failures and how things can go wrong (similar to Chaos Theory). I worked for a year at my company as a Strategic Planning Specialist where we had to do organizational planning on what will/can go wrong implementing significant organizational changes and to put plans in place to manage them. I've also predicted the Recession a year before it occurred and it happened just as I predicted. These things don't necessarily mean I'm correct about what I write, but I just wanted to add that I probably think about these things and view them differently than many people.
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Ever look at ancient societies and the relationship between their golden age and impending doom?

Nick- I'm about the same, always working or focused on getting things for family lately.... but the sales are hard to pass up.
 
DizWolf said:
Ever look at ancient societies and the relationship between their golden age and impending doom?
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Yes...goes to show you that you should appreciate every day above ground, enjoy life (fly rockets!) when you can and maybe sometimes it isn't so bad to buy things now even though they're not on sale. :wink:
 
KenECoyote said:
Yes...goes to show you that you should appreciate every day above ground, enjoy life (fly rockets!) when you can and maybe sometimes it isn't so bad to buy things now even though they're not on sale. :wink:
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Here, here.

Here is how BS sales affect me. I only make a few small purchases a year, and I purposely AVOID the big holiday sales. I read posts in this forum about holiday sales that are delayed, damaged, or incorrect during the big rush (most all get corrected, I am sure). However, I want my stuff now, with confidence, and on my schedule. So, I will buy in June or October before the madness. Sure, I am paying full price during the midyear, but it doesn't blow up my budget, I avoid the frenzy, and I have some peace of mind with my purchase. The vendors should love my full-price method! :)
 
Buckeye said:
Here, here.

Here is how BS sales affect me. I only make a few small purchases a year, and I purposely AVOID the big holiday sales. I read posts in this forum about holiday sales that are delayed, damaged, or incorrect during the big rush (most all get corrected, I am sure). However, I want my stuff now, with confidence, and on my schedule. So, I will buy in June or October before the madness. Sure, I am paying full price during the midyear, but it doesn't blow up my budget, I avoid the frenzy, and I have some peace of mind with my purchase. The vendors should love my full-price method! :)
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I am with you Buckeye. Paying full price is the cost of quality. Afterall, this is a hobby. I deal with bean counters all day, every day at work. I just want to enjoy building rockets with the least amount of worries so I can get the most enjoyment out of it.
 
I'll toss in here I've ordered from RW, Madcow, and Wildman on the sales days for a few years now. Never an issue with any kit. I've seen the reports too, but to be fair it's a high number of kits. The only difference is RW and Madcow sell stock they've built up ahead of time, Tim takes orders and fills after. Both methods have their benefits and issues.
 
I've never paid full price on a fiberglass kit and I never will. too many good sales. I can always wait for a deal and snatch one up when I see it. I do pay full price for motors, chutes, kevlar, glue, and just about everything else. so while I wait for sales for kits, I buy the parts I need when I need them. motors are pretty much a buy as I go thing. I did buy some hobbyline motors from wildman on BS but that was it for motors. so I guess this is somewhat of another side to the sales. sure I only buy kits on sale, but then I have to get everything else to build it later. if I didn't load up on kits during the sale I wouldn't be building all these rockets...
 
The subject of places to fly is a big problem, although being bold helps. There's just a lot more restrictive atmosphere. Of course, being a kid would help if you're caught (maybe). I don't have any but had a weird experience regarding area kids. A few years ago I did find a vacant field and flew Estes stuff on it a few times. There were kids nearby and not one of them showed the slightest interest. In fact my friend chased a rocket that went towards some of them and the KID complained we were endangering them. The other thing about this field is the only recent marks were deer tracks. Not one footprint or bike tire mark. Maybe there was some history of enforcement against trespassing there we were not aware of, but otherwise it seems a grave warning. Back in my day, kids would have been riding motorbikes on a piece of land like that 7 days a week! Maybe it's not a matter of parants spending less time on their kids, but it's all being overprotective. Confused ....
 
KenECoyote said:
RW is a very interesting model...from what I see they are able to sell at low prices by having a base of high volume production parts (gets cheaper the more you make and the more it is "standard") and sell different models based on that with slight variations in between. This is great for those who don't need fancy designs or elaborate instructions, but it fills a certain niche market and doesn't necessarily compete in the same lines as AT, MadCow, Estes, etc. I think it's great to have them as a choice!

Regarding worried about the vendors, that's really for them to worry. They know how low they can go and if they go too low, they may hurt themselves, but sometimes they also have no choice. Along this same line (and also in partial response to the recent post), I'm wondering what Estes is doing selling pretty much wholesale to the public on their site during sales. Perhaps that's their way to clear extra merchandise rather than sell to a liquidator or maybe it's a test to see if they can increase direct internet sales, but to me I would think it would really cause a rift with your retailers since you're undercutting them. This practice, while I'm personally benefiting from it, is worrisome to me since it is sometimes a sign of a desperate move for a company to stay solvent...just a random thought.

As a side note, one of my personal obsessions is trying to predict system failures and how things can go wrong (similar to Chaos Theory). I worked for a year at my company as a Strategic Planning Specialist where we had to do organizational planning on what will/can go wrong implementing significant organizational changes and to put plans in place to manage them. I've also predicted the Recession a year before it occurred and it happened just as I predicted. These things don't necessarily mean I'm correct about what I write, but I just wanted to add that I probably think about these things and view them differently than many people.
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Ummmm,

The other issue with RW is they are "short" kits without all the bits and pieces and that is perfectly fine once one acquires thing's like shockcord materials, all-thread, eyebolts, chutes etc. I like one of the designs I buy it. Get some builds under one's belt of other rockets (that provide building instructions and pointers) and RW stuff will be a snap. Want something modified before you get the parts? Let' em know and they're more than happy to help you out. Kurt
 
KenECoyote said:
RW is a very interesting model...from what I see they are able to sell at low prices by having a base of high volume production parts (gets cheaper the more you make and the more it is "standard") and sell different models based on that with slight variations in between. This is great for those who don't need fancy designs or elaborate instructions, but it fills a certain niche market and doesn't necessarily compete in the same lines as AT, MadCow, Estes, etc. I think it's great to have them as a choice!

Regarding worried about the vendors, that's really for them to worry. They know how low they can go and if they go too low, they may hurt themselves, but sometimes they also have no choice. Along this same line (and also in partial response to the recent post), I'm wondering what Estes is doing selling pretty much wholesale to the public on their site during sales. Perhaps that's their way to clear extra merchandise rather than sell to a liquidator or maybe it's a test to see if they can increase direct internet sales, but to me I would think it would really cause a rift with your retailers since you're undercutting them. This practice, while I'm personally benefiting from it, is worrisome to me since it is sometimes a sign of a desperate move for a company to stay solvent...just a random thought.

As a side note, one of my personal obsessions is trying to predict system failures and how things can go wrong (similar to Chaos Theory). I worked for a year at my company as a Strategic Planning Specialist where we had to do organizational planning on what will/can go wrong implementing significant organizational changes and to put plans in place to manage them. I've also predicted the Recession a year before it occurred and it happened just as I predicted. These things don't necessarily mean I'm correct about what I write, but I just wanted to add that I probably think about these things and view them differently than many people.
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Another vendor frustration with Estes. A year or so ago they decided to implement a MAP Minimum Advertised Price rule. No selling more then 20% off (unless your Estes or AC Supply). So not a bunch of group sales from scouts and schools. I thought MAP was made to level the playing field. Rumbelings has it Quest has a lot of new things in the pipe line. Hope they can make a comeback. And they don't undercut the dealers. When they first came out in the early 90's I thought we would see a Century/Estes type battle brewing. But it hasnt come about.
 
Hope I'm not hijacking - but being in the racing industry for a number of years, I spent $ thousands on my at track setup, travel items, trailer, truck and pay to pull this mobile sales station, spend my weekend only to find that people would complain when I would sell an item at retail I.e $80 set of goggles that customers say they can buy online for $75 and get free shipping. I delivered it to them for cryin out loud. Oh yea and a made $20 freakin on it lol.
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I went to Rockler Hardware a few weeks ago to get some help with an eggbeater drill which needed a new handle. Two guys there spent half an hour with me helping get the last bits of the old handle off. One of them told me about "Hinge Guy," who came in asking for a hinge for his RV. It turned out that he needed a specialty part but didn't want to go to the RV store because they're too expensive. When they finally got him something that worked, he was all ticked off that it didn't cost $4 like the hinges at Home Depot.

Don't be Hinge Guy! I'll shop at HD when I need commodity items, but am prepared to pay for unusual bits and pieces.
 
boatgeek said:
I went to Rockler Hardware a few weeks ago to get some help with an eggbeater drill which needed a new handle. Two guys there spent half an hour with me helping get the last bits of the old handle off. One of them told me about "Hinge Guy," who came in asking for a hinge for his RV. It turned out that he needed a specialty part but didn't want to go to the RV store because they're too expensive. When they finally got him something that worked, he was all ticked off that it didn't cost $4 like the hinges at Home Depot.

Don't be Hinge Guy! I'll shop at HD when I need commodity items, but am prepared to pay for unusual bits and pieces.
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I love this thread because it's controversial yet relevant, and there's no good reason to lock it because the topic sits square in the middle of the hobby :)

There's a few principles at work in this discussion:

1. The general retail industry has trained us to watch for discounts (to the point of hurting their own interests at times), and the same force applies in hobbies.

2. Competition between retailers is not really about price; it's about value. There is more than one way for retailers to show value:
a. Superior quality, as with kits that offer a lot of nice extras (lots of laser-cut parts, better materials and hardware, super-detailed instructions and user support) fall into this category
b. Unique/scarce products. If it's cool and I can't get it anywhere else, I may be willing to pay above suggested retail for it.
c. Premiums (bonus kits, materials, etc. thrown in for free with full-price purchase)
d. Loyalty rewards--new customers are hard to find so try to hang onto the old ones by rewarding them.
e. Superior service (expert advice, easy or cheap/free parts replacement, on-site delivery at launches, etc.) so the customer feels better about the purchase even though he paid up for it.
f. Convenience---If I'm already selling kits, customers may pay more for motors and accessories just for one-stop shopping.
g. And of course discounts. The tradeoff, though, is you need very low overhead and/or are buying enough from your suppliers to get price concessions that you can pass on to the customer. Which means you're not going to be able to offer anything unique or to keep rolling out new products all the time.

3. Given all of those ways to deliver value, the retailer has to decide what kind of value proposition he wants to offer. This means he will be leaving money on the table somewhere, as he can't make every customer happy.

4. And related to #3, the retailer needs to decide why he's in business as there are other (possibly better) ways to make money.

A guy who wants to offer high-quality, super service, and/or unique products wants to make enough margin on each sale to allow him to keep developing new products...even if it means he's selling to fewer people. His customers may be few, but he may be enjoying running the business more as he'll have more time and money to invest in what he really likes about rocketry.

A guy who wants to discount and "make it up in volume" will have to run pretty lean to give customers the discounts they want. And he'll have to try to match the big-box retailers on price, even though he doesn't have the same negotiating leverage with his suppliers. Some guys may be excited by the challenge...but probably not the guy who'd rather drive his trailer from launch to launch every weekend.

And of course the "big box" stores (I'll include big online discounters like HobbyLinc) want to drive more total traffic to the store as they are selling much broader product lines. They will offer big discounts on some things and make up the margin on other items in the customer's cart. These are corporate types with revenue and profit goals to meet for their owners.

As noted elsewhere, guys who aren't happy with the business model they've chosen can burn out, close up or sell out and get regular jobs.

5. And finally, all of the above means that the retailer needs to ask him/herself what kinds of customers he/she wants. It's a touchy subject, and maybe they won't say this to your face, but maybe you're not their dream customer. And maybe at some point they will change their minds about who they want to sell to.

Retail is brutal, even if it's not your own business (I'm a marketing analyst and have met many retailers)...my hat's off to anyone going into that business for themselves.
 
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John Beans said:
Jolly Logic's business is growing, but we're small and have somewhat unique products, so that's not a very useful gauge of the overall industry. Estes/COX, Aerotech/Quest, or a reseller like Apogee could better judge the overall industry. The recent consolidations suggest "not great growth."

Having worked at a prestigious consulting company and at a variety of tech companies over the years, I will say that rocketry does have a tendency toward weak business practices, especially with regards to pricing. That's not unique. There are plenty of industries like that, especially when the products become more commoditized. Every industry faces these pressures; some resist them, and some really give in to them. Some practices which sound like good ideas (volume pricing, bulk buying, special promotions) are actually signs of these weak business practices.

Here's one simple example. Suppose a manufacturer of $25 motors who normally sells these motors for $20 to resellers offers a special additional 25% discount if a reseller buys 1000 motors at once. If a reseller takes this deal, they will have incredible pressure to sell these 1000 motors, because they laid out $15,000 all at once to buy them. Then let's say this reseller gets in a pinch for money, looks at the big stack of motors and decides to "pass the savings along to buyers" by discounting the motors to $16. You might say, "Well, that's a huge win for everyone! The customer pays $16 for a $25 motor (oh yeah!!!), the reseller still makes money, and the motor manufacturer sells 1000 motors."

Well, no, it's not good. Here's why:

1. In the Internet age, resellers who bought their motors for $20 see their sales instantly dry up, and are stuck with inventory they can't sell
2. The reseller with the $16 deal sells out quickly
3. Customers complain when they place orders for $16 and are told "We are out of stock."
4. Customers now expect that these motors "should" cost $16. Paying more seems dumb. Charging more seems like taking advantage of people(!!!)
5. The new expected price becomes $16. Some people will wait all year for that price to come back around.
6. Some resellers decide to stop carrying this type of motor, because they can't afford to buy $15,000 worth each time.
7. Running a business that makes $1 on a sale of $16 is hard/impossible. You have to stop offering returns (No Returns!), replacements, friendly personal support, free shipping. You have to cut every corner you can.
8. The manufacturer begins noticing that reseller accounts are disappearing, and the discounting resellers start demanding even more discounts, because they control most sales now
9. Price pressure reduces the incentives and resources for new product development

You end up with an unprofitable, slow-to-innovate industry rife with frustrating characteristics, such as:

1. Why don't I get treated well when I buy stuff? I'm a paying customer! Where's my free shipping? Why can't I just return this?
2. Why do I have to search so hard to find the best prices? (I know if search a little harder, I can find a KILLER price somewhere...)
3. Why is everything made so cheaply?
4. Why is everything made in China?
5. Why aren't there lots of companies creating new exciting products?

You might think all of this is inevitable, but it's not. Manufacturers can and should set a price for their goods and require everyone to sell for that price. There's a common misconception that this is illegal or bad for consumers, but of course it's not. It's what Apple does. It's what Jolly Logic does.

We regularly get contacted by folks who want a volume price break. And we always say No. And if we find a reseller advertising our products for below our MSRP, we drop them. Having seen that cycle start up in other industries, we know it's unhealthy and it comes at the expense of other resellers, so we stop it right there.

Here's the result of our no-discounting policy:
1. Every reseller knows that they already offer the lowest price.
2. When a reseller buys product, they can be assured it won't lose its value.
3. Customers don't need to waste time shopping around. They can buy wherever it's most convenient, wherever they get great service, great selection.
4. Since we thoughtfully set the price at a point that allows us some R&D money, we can continue to work on new, exciting products.

To anyone who reads this and dismisses it by saying, "Ugh. This guy's just justifying his greedy sky-high prices," I would say, do this: buy an Estes altimeter. Find it on sale somewhere. Enjoy its delightful Chinese-engineered quirkiness. If you need some quick personal attention a few days before a contest, let me know how THAT goes. If you're waiting for Estes to move from offshore-knockoffs to innovation, I'd suggest you settle in with some popcorn, because it might be awhile.

That having been said, Estes *still* represents the magic of science during my childhood, along with Tom Swift. I treasure those memories. Sad sigh...
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John, I am not a Retailer or Wholesaler, but I sell repairs which include parts and labor. You are right on target. Everyone likes a deal but there are no free lunches. Everyone needs to set their prices to achieve their own profitability. When it becomes price only there will rarely be a long standing relationship with a customer, quality service from the vendor or quality product in the long term. I value quality vendors and products more than cheap prices. I am not saying I don't buy on sale, but there is usually something else there from the vendor that keeps me coming back.
 
RKeller said:
I've never paid full price on a fiberglass kit and I never will. too many good sales. I can always wait for a deal and snatch one up when I see it. I do pay full price for motors, chutes, kevlar, glue, and just about everything else. so while I wait for sales for kits, I buy the parts I need when I need them. motors are pretty much a buy as I go thing. I did buy some hobbyline motors from wildman on BS but that was it for motors. so I guess this is somewhat of another side to the sales. sure I only buy kits on sale, but then I have to get everything else to build it later. if I didn't load up on kits during the sale I wouldn't be building all these rockets...
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I thought i was going to have to eat my words after seeing a new kit MAC is coming out with, but it's not fiberglass!!! Phew, that was close....
 
RKeller said:
I thought i was going to have to eat my words after seeing a new kit MAC is coming out with, but it's not fiberglass!!! Phew, that was close....
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Yea, I'm not even finished with my Villain and I'm eying that one up.... can't decide.... 38 or 54? I have a lot of 54's.... Not gonna let the cat out of the bag yet...
 
DizWolf said:
Yea, I'm not even finished with my Villain and I'm eying that one up.... can't decide.... 38 or 54? I have a lot of 54's.... Not gonna let the cat out of the bag yet...
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Well, I'll have serial no. 1...and it'll be a 38.
 
mrichhcirm said:
....
2. Competition between retailers is not really about price; it's about value.
.....
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this may have been true in the past but not so much anymore.

You can only complete so much on value.

The problem today is you have such a large difference in price, or awareness, that you can't offer enough value to the customer.

This happen with retailers that get such a deal that their retail price is almost what a retailer pays at wholesale.

Then there is awareness. Large sellers, including big box, have become the first to go place. A small seller just can't compete.

You also have some manufactures, including rocketry ones, that will offer a new kit direct first, and then through other retailers.

I can give examples of the above but I want to keep this civil.
 
I think the Estes holiday sales are a good thing for as long as the excess inventory lasts. They are limited to their web site, limited to word of mouth on the forums and clubs, so mostly hard core rocketeers are benefiting and staying in the hobby. Just look at all the new folks and their PS II build threads out there. More scratch builds and kits given out at clubs and events. More new model rocketeers as a result?

These kits are overstocked and limited in scope, so they really don't undercut the local LHS with the more desirable and new kits at retail (Unless they still have an old PS 2 on their shelf). There is like only one LHS per major metropolitan area anyway.

I think the Black Friday sales are good too. They keep this Grumpy Old Man buying kits for Xmas I probably would not have bought in the first place. They keep up the excitement and are limited in scope. Just deal with your expectations. If you need it now then be willing to pay. I for one, can and will wait for Black Friday for my high end niche rocket purchases.

I think Apogee is good too. For that profile of customer it is a good niche. If it is a unique product people want then charge the limit baby! (Blow molded BT 70 nose cones - why even I pay top dollar!) Just look at our limited number of motor manufactures. The BIG THREE is good for America, good for capitalism. Charge what you can get, the big money is in motors with extreme barriers to entry; regulation and certification for safety! My buddy bought some F12's above retail while in the Danger Zone of Apogee's motor container. Unable to get them from any internet discounter I seem to find myself going over to his stash and asking "are there any of those F12s in here?" It is just like I am back in Germany after WWII, the black market rules! He paid above retail and makes out like a bandit! When the mood hits and I have to have it now, it is in the car and down to Apogee. I hope I have enough gas to get home cuz my wallet will be empty!

I think Walmart and Hobby Lobby are good too. Put the squeeze on big suppliers and maximize profit. Do it more efficiently with ample cheap labor. Just in time baby! Love Sam Walton and the fortune he left to his heirs. God bless America! MOM and POP are sure not going to the LHS or let me on the internet, so my only chance at an RTF is to cry at Hobby Lobby with a 40% off coupon in my hand. Bottom line, no mass market big box rockets, hobby fades away.

I think the internet discounters are good too. That is where I buy most everything I can't get at the very back end of a big box store. I know before hand where to buy and for what price and for what service needed cuz I read the forums! An educated and diligent internet shopper rules!

I think on site vendors are good too. Convenience and HAZMAT will maybe keep a few around. A very niche and captive audience needing lots of advise and service. Maybe not big money but lots of love.

I think FeeBay is good too. I am old and grumpy and the only cure is a NIB Bomarc I never got as a kid! Better to spend it there than in Vegas.

And finally there are the small, one man, high end kit producers. I greatly fear for them. Sometimes while in my undies drinking a beer late at night I get up, all hunched over, stagger over to the closet and get out the Roachworks, Cosmodrome, True Scale and Semroc kits. Pile them up in the center of the floor and repeat over and over again "MY PRECIOUS!"
 
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Fear not, Cosmodrome isn't going anywhere. Toughest part about this is being a one-person operation. It only takes one little of life's hiccups to disrupt everything. Anyway, I've been working on finding ways to be able to produce stuff quicker. Almost everything in my kits is made by hand. Example, I used to cast the lead weights for the Apache and Vostok, very time consuming and not possible during snow. I'm in the process of substituting pre-cut steel slugs. A savings of time for me, and no price increase for you! Most kits will be shipping again by the end of August and I'm working on three new kits.

Please don't yell at me about the Vostok, I'm working on these too.

mike
 
accpool said:
[...]
Our company will be there ready to do it, for a hansom fee of course (just kidding, a reasonable fee).
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Hansom? Did you mean "handsome"? Or maybe ransom? :)

If enough of the younger generation don't take a liking to handiwork over playing with computers, video games, etc., over time, you may just be able to charge whatever you want. And that is not a slam, you're smart to do so. If you have little competition, "reasonable fee" can take on a very wide range. As long as your quality of work is good, people will pay for it.

My daughter and her husband have their own construction business. They opened a showroom and my daughter offers interior design consulting, and they carry/distribute a number of lines of furnishings from flooring/tile/carpet, to cabinets, to electrical and plumbing fixtures. Their business is growing like crazy because they have found a niche. They are small, can react quickly to customers, and do an entire build or remodel job.
 
cosmodrome said:
Fear not, Cosmodrome isn't going anywhere. Toughest part about this is being a one-person operation. It only takes one little of life's hiccups to disrupt everything. Anyway, I've been working on finding ways to be able to produce stuff quicker. Almost everything in my kits is made by hand. Example, I used to cast the lead weights for the Apache and Vostok, very time consuming and not possible during snow. I'm in the process of substituting pre-cut steel slugs. A savings of time for me, and no price increase for you! Most kits will be shipping again by the end of August and I'm working on three new kits.

Please don't yell at me about the Vostok, I'm working on these too.

mike
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I promise, we won't yell, beg maybe, grovel, plead, yurn, but never yell. One good thing is with the supply curve so small the demand curve doesn't have to be that big. Everyone loves the kits. When are you going to fly the Vostok again I get asked. A while back a new guy at the club had the Black Brant and his first AT single use motor CATOed, everyone was so sad as we picked up the pieces. He went on and built the fiberglass Mad Cow versions. He just flew the big one but I missed that high power launch. Now as a big man on campus he might just be ready to take on the Apache or Vostok and max out our launch site.
 
cosmodrome said:
Fear not, Cosmodrome isn't going anywhere. Toughest part about this is being a one-person operation. It only takes one little of life's hiccups to disrupt everything. Anyway, I've been working on finding ways to be able to produce stuff quicker. Almost everything in my kits is made by hand. Example, I used to cast the lead weights for the Apache and Vostok, very time consuming and not possible during snow. I'm in the process of substituting pre-cut steel slugs. A savings of time for me, and no price increase for you! Most kits will be shipping again by the end of August and I'm working on three new kits.

Please don't yell at me about the Vostok, I'm working on these too.

mike
Click to expand...

Put me down for one of each!

Cheers,
Michael
 

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