ESTES Argent - Build Thread

Hello everyone.

I'm a new member on the forums (even though i've lurked around for awhile) and have just recently moved up to the MPR field. So this is not only my first thread post, and my first build thread, but also my first time building a rocket intended for a motor above a E. Therefore I plan on doing a pretty straightforward build... with the exception of turning the coupler into a baffle.

So lets get started...

DAY 1:

Inventoried all my parts and started assembling my motor mount.

I sanded down the motor mount to remove all the shininess and dry fitted all the centering rings. I'm only going to glue the forward and centering rings on for now so that I can epoxy the fins to the motor mount later on in the build.

I pretty much followed the instructions here (with the exception of not adding glue to the aft ring) and used Titebond II woodglue to attach the rings to the motor tube.



I didn't get a picture of it, but once the woodglue had dried, i reinforced the the rings with epoxy fillets on both sides of forward ring and the forward facing side of the center ring (didn't do the opposite side of the center ring as I didn't want it to affect the fin installation.)

Day 2:

With the centering rings attached to the motor tube and cured, i went ahead and attached the mount to the fin can. Again, I pretty much followed the ESTES instructions here substituting wood glue for 5 min epoxy.

I used a dowel to place a ring of epoxy 1/4" lower then where both the forward and centering rings will sit and then slid the motor mount into place and used a table to make sure the ends were flush.



Most of the epoxy for the center ring got pushed forward by the forward ring... but that's ok, as ill add epoxy to the aft facing side once the fins are attached.



Here you can see the epoxy on the forward ring... I may add more later on for a better fillet.

Now that the motor mount was in I started to fill in the spirals on the tube with wood filler. There are probably better ways of filling in your spirals, but I've always used wood filler and know what to expect for the results.



I usually let the wood filler dry for 24 hours, so I started prepping my fins for leading/trailing edge rounding.



I gave myself about 1/2" to play with on each edge. On balsa fins I tend to go with a foil but as i've never worked with plywood fins I decided that I would play it safe and just round the edges.



Didn't get very far before calling it a day on the build.

Day 3:

Tackled the fins again today... finished shaping all three fins. I use a sanding block and hand sand to get the shape. I start it off with 120 grit to quickly rough out the shape and then move to 220 grit to smooth it all out. In order to get similar looking fins I tend to shape one edge side of all three fins first (stacking them to compare to one another) before moving to the opposite side and then the other edge.



Not perfect... but should be fine for this build.



With the fins completed... I took my orbital palm power sander to the fin can tube and started removing the woodfiller on the spirals. I usually use 220 grit on my power sander to (carefully) remove most of the filler then finish it off with 220 grit hand sanding. I've always had good results with this process but am debating trying bondo glazing putty in the future as you can apply it thinner and save on sanding time.



With the fin can smooth and the fins shaped, I decided to add some eyelets to the aft ring so that I can use them as handles when installing it. Once installed I will remove the eyelets and the holes will get filled in by epoxy.



Now that I have everything prepped for fin installation I'm going to call it a day.



I pondered fiber-glassing the fins but after some research and discussions with other members on this forum I decided against it. I've never worked with FG before and would hate to screw it up... but am definitely planning to attempt it on my next build. For this build I'm going to finish off the fins with a couple coats of sanding sealer once they've been attached to the body tube and they should be strong enough for the motors that I plan to fly this rocket with.

It looks like it is going pretty well!

One suggestion I would make is that you could add the eye screws to the aft ring earlier in the process. That way, when you are gluing the motor mount into the body tube, you could insert the aft ring into place dry while the glue on the other two rings dries, and then use the eye screws to pull it back out once the glue is dry. That would help to keep the aft end of the motor mount perfectly centered in the body tube.

Carry on! It looks like a good job so far.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

It looks like it is going pretty well!

One suggestion I would make is that you could add the eye screws to the aft ring earlier in the process. That way, when you are gluing the motor mount into the body tube, you could insert the aft ring into place dry while the glue on the other two rings dries, and then use the eye screws to pull it back out once the glue is dry. That would help to keep the aft end of the motor mount perfectly centered in the body tube.

Carry on! It looks like a good job so far.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

That's a good idea... I dry fitted it yesterday though and it slid on nice and easy. So i'm thinking that it made it on centered regardless.

Pull_and_Twist said:

Thanks.

That's a good idea... I dry fitted it yesterday though and it slid on nice and easy. So i'm thinking that it made it on centered regardless.

Click to expand...

Yep. Sounds like it is centered nicely.

Day 4 - Part One:

So today was very productive... I started out by attaching the fins to the fin can.

I went ahead and glued a fin guide from Payload Bay to a piece of foam board with some Krylon spray adhesive.



After cutting out my template I did a dry fit to make sure everything worked like I wanted before bringing out the glue.



I then used a pretty small amount of Titebond II wood glue on the edge of each fin. I let them sit for about a minute so that they can tack up a little.



During this time i put in the aft centering ring (w/o glue) to make sure that all the tubes are lined up as I glue the fins in. I then inserted the fins into the slots and slid on the fin guide.



I let it sit for about 30 mins while the wood glue dried... then I removed the aft centering ring so that I can apply some epoxy.



It didn't stay clean for long, here you can see the epoxy bonding the fins to the motor mount. I tried to use the epoxy somewhat sparingly but its hard getting in between the body and motor tubes. I ended up using a dowel for the most part. Definitely not pretty.



After the epoxy cured I went ahead and put a ring of epoxy around the motor tube (right above fin connection) and on the inside of the body tube (about 1/4" from the aft end) and slid the aft centering ring and removed the eyelets. I let the fin can sit with the top facing up so all the epoxy would pool on the joints of the aft ring.



15 mins later I added epoxy to the aft facing edge and filled in the eyelet holes. I also coated the inside of the aft end of the motor mount and body tube with high viscosity CA to harden them. (I usually do this for all edges that are likely to impact the ground or are subjected to having things pushed into them.



With that completed I decided to dry fit the entire rocket together so that I can see what it looks like so far.



Not too shabby... now on to the fin fillets.

Day 4 - Part Two:

With the fins attached I decided to knock out the fin fillets.

I prepped myself two pieces of dowel I would use to mark the rocket and shape the epoxy clay. (Yes, I use a two part epoxy clay for my fillets.) I cut the dowels about twice the length of their diameter (1/2" diameter in this case) and covered one in soft artists charcoal and set the other one in a dixie cup full of 91% rubbing alcohol.



Using the charcoal covered dowel I ran it up between the joint of the fin and the body tube to mark it.



I then masked the rocket using the charcoal lines as a guide.



Time for the epoxy. I mix the two part epoxy clay and form a long snake which i then press into the fin and body tube joint. Then using the dowel soaked in rubbing alcohol i remove the extra epoxy. I usually have to run the dowel down the fillet 3-5 times to get it perfect... dipping the dowel in alcohol as it dries out.



After completing all three fins I let the epoxy cure for a hour and then removed the masking tape.



Turned out pretty good and will look even better when sanded. That will have to wait for tomorrow though.

Looking good so far!

Looks good! I'm just finishing painting mine, but didn't bother to take any photos during the build (so no thread)...

Day 5:

Was busy with work and school today so I didn't get much done.

Did a little dremel sanding on the fillets. Then I gave the fins two coats of sanding sealer. I sanded the first coat and will be sanding the second as soon as it dries.

Day 6:

So yesterday i got a bit more done, primarily turning the coupler into a baffle with a couple of 2.474" x 0.125" thick solid plywood bulkheads i picked up at Balsa Machining Service and a eyelet from Home Depot.



I traced the coupler onto the bulk heads and used my dremel to sand them down to the line. Then I finished them by hand, sanding till they easly slid into the coupler. The first bulkhead then got 8 equally spaced air holes dirlled into it and a pilot hole for the eyelet.



Then the second disk I cut straight down the middle.



Using wood glue I tacked one half of the bulkhead in the center of the coupler.



Once dry, I followed up with epoxy on the joint and covered the aft facing side of the wood and bottom inside half of the coupler.



Then I did the same thing with the second half, but this time at the bottom of the coupler. First the woodglue...



Then the epoxy.



Next I installed the eyelet in the top circle.



And epoxied both the top and the bottom of the eyelet.



Finally I attached the top circle to the coupler and finished the joints with epoxy.



Before I attach it to the top tube I will go ahead and latch some 750lb braided kevlar shock chord to it. For the smaller rockets I tend to build I would normally use would glue to attach the baffle. I'm thinking about using epoxy for this one... is that what other people on here do? I figured that it would be a pretty high stress point during parachute ejection. Would love to hear opinions.

Epoxy may be better for gluing the baffle to the tube, not because of stresses (both should be plenty strong) but because the wood glue can bind jamming the couplers. I haven't had problems with either, but going with epoxy can't hurt.

Out of curiosity, do you have the part numbers for the Balsa Machining bulkheads that fit the 2.5" PSII tubing? I couldn't find it on their website.

SCrocketfan said:

Epoxy may be better for gluing the baffle to the tube, not because of stresses (both should be plenty strong) but because the wood glue can bind jamming the couplers. I haven't had problems with either, but going with epoxy can't hurt.

Out of curiosity, do you have the part numbers for the Balsa Machining bulkheads that fit the 2.5" PSII tubing? I couldn't find it on their website.

Click to expand...

Wood Glue (Titebond) and or White Glue (Elmers Glue-All, not school glue) are plenty strong for the couplers and lighter weight. Epoxies only advantage here is it wont grab like wood glue will causing the coupler to seize.

2.5" Tubes and parts for them are the domain of Estes, its an oddball size that nobody else uses, I don't believe anyone else even sells bulkheads or other stuff for them. The ones he used are the BHC-80W for the heavy wall BT-80H.

rharshberger said:

Wood Glue (Titebond) and or White Glue (Elmers Glue-All, not school glue) are plenty strong for the couplers and lighter weight. Epoxies only advantage here is it wont grab like wood glue will causing the coupler to seize.

2.5" Tubes and parts for them are the domain of Estes, its an oddball size that nobody else uses, I don't believe anyone else even sells bulkheads or other stuff for them.

Click to expand...

Sorry, that's what I meant by epoxy preventing binding, like you said.

While the 2.5" tubes are definitely estes only, I thought BMS sold parts for the like they do for the 3" estes parts, but it sounds like the OP turned down BT80 bulkheads, which makes sense now. Sorry about the confusion...

SCrocketfan said:

Out of curiosity, do you have the part numbers for the Balsa Machining bulkheads that fit the 2.5" PSII tubing? I couldn't find it on their website.

Click to expand...

I used the BHC80-W bulkheads.

SCrocketfan said:

...it sounds like the OP turned down BT80 bulkheads, which makes sense now. Sorry about the confusion...

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I did... was easier then I expected and gave good results.

Day 7:

So a couple of days ago I finally installed the motor retention system... it was pretty straight forward.



I sanded the inside of the male portion of the retainer so that the epoxy would have something to grab.



Then I ran a ring of epoxy on the outside of the motor mount and slid it on. Since the epoxy was on the motor mount, none of it seeped out into the motor mount itself and instead pooled at the bottom of the plastic ring like I wanted it to.



With that done... I attached the baffle using epoxy and also sealed in the top of the bulkhead with epoxy as well.

Since then, I've taken a couple days hiatus... mainly because i'm not looking forward to the tedious process of tube spiral removal on the upper portion of the rocket. So hopefully I can push myself into applying the wood filler to the 2nd 2.5" tube tonight so I can sand it tomorrow and couple it with the fin can.

Looking really good!

I like the trick you demonstrated with the two dowels for the fillets.

Looking forward to seeing it finished!

Day 8:

So yesterday was another unproductive day... but at least I started filling in the spirals on the second 2.5" body tube.



Now to wait for it to dry.

Day 9:

Today was a little more productive...



Started the day by attaching some braided 750lb kevlar shock chord to the baffle eyelet.



I made a double knot with one end of the kevlar chord through the eyelet on the baffle...



...then sealed the knots with some epoxy and removed the frayed edge.



Then I measured the length of the second 2.5" body tube and tied a loop into the kevlar chord just below where the edge of the second tube will be.



Then again I sealed the knot.



Finally I got around to sanding the second 2.5" body tube. Once again I used my orbital sander w/ 220 grit to get the majority of the wood filler off and then followed with some 220 hand sanding. I then went ahead and attached the second tube to the fin can using some epoxy. (I didn't get a picture of it, but i made a long paper tube to protect the shock chord while I was merging the tubes together.)



With the two halves together I went ahead and applied some wood filler to the seam between the two. I also added some wood filler to a couple of areas I felt needed some reshaping. The final sand and launch lug attachment will happen tomorrow... then she'll be ready for primer.



I also checked to make sure I got the kevlar to the correct length.



It sits just below the edge. I will end up attaching some sewing elastic to the kevlar to create the rest of the shock chord. Since the kevlar is below the edge of the second tube, this should prevent it from zippering the tube during a flight.

Slowly but surely the build is getting to the painting stage. Tomorrow I will start focusing on the nose cone.

K'Tesh said:

Looking really good!

I like the trick you demonstrated with the two dowels for the fillets.

Looking forward to seeing it finished!

Click to expand...

Thanks... although I did not come up with it myself. I'm not sure were it originated, but I have seen multiple people use this technique with different types of epoxy. I use epoxy clay cause that's what I am used to, but I've seen a lot better results using liquid epoxy.

Day 10:

Finally got around to putting some more work into the Argent today... started out by sanding the joint between the two tubes flush.



It turned out really good, can't even tell it's two pieces when you run your hand down it. I had also filled in some imperfections with woodfiller on Day 9 of the build and sanded those smooth as well.



Next I used a angle bar to make a straight line centered down the tube between two of the fins. I then measured out where I wanted to place the lugs based on the paint job it's going to get. I placed the bottom lug 0.25" higher then suggested and the top lug 3.5" higher so that it lands on the white portion and is easier to paint.



I used epoxy to attach the lugs to the body tube. Of course I sanded the lugs first to remove the shine and give the epoxy something to grab on to. I also used a launch rod to make sure everything was straight.



I traced the length of each launch lug onto the line so that I know where to put the epoxy.



I then put a small amount of epoxy on the tube just short of the traced ends and pressed the launch lugs into it, using the line to ensure they are straight. I then slowly and carefully ran the launch rod through the lugs to make sure they both matched and were indeed straight.



They turned out real good... I will let them cure till tomorrow and then add small epoxy fillets so that they're attached stronger and blend better into the body.

Day 11:

I've neglected updating this thread for about a week due to school and work, but construction keeps on chugging along, albeit slowly. I have until August 22 to have this completed, so I'm not feeling the rush yet.



Moving on to spiral removal on the 2" tube I decided to change the wood filler i've been using. I swapped out the Elmers's Wood Filler Max for regular Elmers Wood Filler. The latter dries a lot quicker, is easier to apply and sands easier. While the Max version dries stronger, the extra elbow grease required to sand it down flush is super annoying. Unfortunately i had gotten used to the Max since it's the only type I've ever used. I figured either should get the job done though since the spirals are so tiny.



So I experimented by filling the deeper spiral first...



... and was impressed with the results. Spiral filling is far less tedious with the regular wood filler. So I went ahead and applied it to the second spiral.



I then jumped to the 2.5" to 2" transition and sanded it smooth. One of the seam lines was recessed though so I filled it in with some wood filler.



I let the wood filler dry for about 8 hours and then I sanded both parts. They turned out real good and now I doubt i'll ever go back to the Elmer's Wood Filler Max for spiral filling.



With that completed I cut out the shock chord ring on the transition. I thought about replacing it with a steel eyelet but figured that would be overkill for this rocket.



I then masked and applied the first coat of primer to the transition...



... and then fitted the nose cone, sanded it and applied some wood filler to the more stubborn portions of the seams.

Wasn't bad progress, but the build has started to lag a bit. Hopefully I get a second wind here as I start priming all the parts.

Day 12:

So it's been awhile since I've updated this. Lol, I'm actually on like Day 15 of this build but I've been lagging with updating it here. Anywho... "today" I started with adding fillets to the launch lugs. The process was identical to the fin fillets. Used the two dowel pieces, smaller diameter this time, as I did for the fins. One is covered in graphite so that i can make guide lines.



So I ran the length of the graphite covered dowel length wise between the joint to draw the lines.



Then I masked the area off...



...and made a fillet on each side using epoxy clay and dragging a piece of alcohol soaked dowel through it for shaping.



Not too shabby. Once it dried, I went ahead and sanded it.



Then I coated the top inside rim of the body tube with high viscosity CA to stiffen the paper, since that's where my nose cone will slide in.



Then I started by applying a first coat of primer on the fin tube and the 2.5" to 2" coupler. Unfortunately I only have photos from after the first coat got sanded. I usually wait 24 hours between coats and 48 hours when I go from primer to paint and paint to clear coat. Here's the coupler...



...and the fin tube.



Now that i'm mostly doing paint I should be able to catch up on here. :smile: Lol, I have like 15 days left to finish this thing.

I just ordered an Argent yesterday and it'll be my first MPR build as well. It looks like you are doing a nice job on yours, I look forward to seeing the rest of your build.

cheers - mark

Double check the plastic on your coupler. I did not think to check, and it turns out mine was paper thin in the bottom. This is what happened to mine this weekend on the second flight. Despite being perfectly fitting, the ejection charge from an F50-6T did this.

Mine was pretty thin as well. I turned my transition into an A/V Bay by cutting the end caps off. I then used Bondo glazing putty to thicken the walls internally. Worked very well.

Banzai88 said:

Double check the plastic on your coupler. I did not think to check, and it turns out mine was paper thin in the bottom. This is what happened to mine this weekend on the second flight. Despite being perfectly fitting, the ejection charge from an F50-6T did this.

Click to expand...

Yikes! I just picked up an Argent and will need to double check this coupler. Other than the beefy plywood fins, this kit is just upsized LPR materials. No wonder it only cost $25! Builder beware.

Built mine with nothing but what came in the box and Carpenter's Wood Glue. Has survived several flights including an H-180 flight, 2 weeks in a soybean field (including a lengthy rain), a detached fin (re-glued after having pulled it out and a little sanding), and a no-chute landing at MWP last year. Going up at MWP again this weekend as long as its not raining when I'm there.

Buckeye said:

Yikes! I just picked up an Argent and will need to double check this coupler. Other than the beefy plywood fins, this kit is just upsized LPR materials. No wonder it only cost $25! Builder beware.

Click to expand...

I have been more than satisfied with mine as far as durability. built it bone stock and have over 10 flights on G40 OR G80 ,
Fun rocket to fly and pretty darn tough for what it is.
Nice build to the OP btw....