CJ's 2-stage "Voo-Doo" Punisher 75mm to 54mm.
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JimJarvis50
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I use the same stuff. I think the 404 is just calcium carbonate. So day, I'll get around to analyzing it. Also a little milled glass and some graphite (I have mostly black rockets you know).
Looks like I need to come to Airfest.
Jim
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Spent a good bit of time getting the external fit between interstage and sustainer airframe "just so" & square.
Can't even see the joint.
All the marking, is so I can keep correct side placement of vent band, from assembly/dis-assembly.....sanding proper. I set it down first time unmarked, and wasted too much time figuring which end was which....lol.
Happy with it, so wrapped tape & marked for gluing vent band on.
Glued it up & set aside for cure.
Can't even see the joint.
All the marking, is so I can keep correct side placement of vent band, from assembly/dis-assembly.....sanding proper. I set it down first time unmarked, and wasted too much time figuring which end was which....lol.
Happy with it, so wrapped tape & marked for gluing vent band on.
Glued it up & set aside for cure.
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blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Time to fit the BP with threaded rods into interstage.
Already have fitted and glued threaded rod for av-bay into the BP.
Bulkplate needs to be below nozzle just enough to nozzle cap & igniter wire between them.
The AT loads have a longer nozzle. So I used that to fit up the lazy way, rather than measuring.
Stand can on end, insert motor.
Add 2 small BP's for spacer [1/4in]
Sit coupler BP with rods on top, and just push interstage into position.
Couple of drops CA to lock it in & added epoxy to finish off. When cured, did same to other side of BP.
Interstage fitting/glueing done!
Already have fitted and glued threaded rod for av-bay into the BP.
Bulkplate needs to be below nozzle just enough to nozzle cap & igniter wire between them.
The AT loads have a longer nozzle. So I used that to fit up the lazy way, rather than measuring.
Stand can on end, insert motor.
Add 2 small BP's for spacer [1/4in]
Sit coupler BP with rods on top, and just push interstage into position.
Couple of drops CA to lock it in & added epoxy to finish off. When cured, did same to other side of BP.
Interstage fitting/glueing done!
BayouRat
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I'm confused? Are you lighting the upper stage from the bottom or the top?
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
From the top. There's conduit in the sustainer for that.
Everything pretty much standard 2-stage stuff.
There will be altimeter in interstage for apogee charge of booster. I'm blowing out a chute at top, no DD for it.
I may add a separation charge in bottom also, rather than top, as it would fire on motor burn out.
Anybody see a problem with that?
See you at Airfest Whit!
BayouRat
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OK I see that now. Looks good. Nice build. Can't wait to see it fly!
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
I'm switching to the manual type.
The automatic ones I have, don't seem to be working correctly.........
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What size quick links does Rock Sim tell you to use??
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I've got some 3/8" quick links if you need some ballast...
Adrian
Adrian
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
I rebuilt the booster for longer motors and have been simming a lot for Airfest.
Increase fin span by an inch and root to 12in. for added stability.
New booster is 58in long to hold 75mm 6xl motors..........
Interstage will contain Pet 2 timer with stage separation at motor burnout via G-switch
Sustainer firmed up now....added a lb. of lead powder in tip, for added stability....[also increased altitudes] with RRC3 + Missleworks GPS and marshall tracker for back up.
Just have to fit it all in, got to love it when the plan comes together!
Increase fin span by an inch and root to 12in. for added stability.
New booster is 58in long to hold 75mm 6xl motors..........
Interstage will contain Pet 2 timer with stage separation at motor burnout via G-switch
Sustainer firmed up now....added a lb. of lead powder in tip, for added stability....[also increased altitudes] with RRC3 + Missleworks GPS and marshall tracker for back up.
Just have to fit it all in, got to love it when the plan comes together!
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ECayemberg
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Hi CJ!
Not a criticism, just a point to ponder. Have you ever noticed 2 stagers where the sustainer is shorter relative to the booster; and/or the sustainer fins are more than 50% up the combined vehicle's length....these tend to wander a bit off the pad. Much like the forward finned guided missiles, they search for direction. Once the velocities get up there, the twisting and turning may lead to rapid deconstruction
.
Any way to shorten the booster and lengthen the sustainer?
I know this isn't your first go-around, just trying to help you keep the sustainer within a 10 mile radius. Nevertheless, watching with interest; and wishing I'd be at Airfest this year!
-Eric (who doesn't care what Rocksim says, and prefers shorter relative boosters and longer relative sustainers)-
Not a criticism, just a point to ponder. Have you ever noticed 2 stagers where the sustainer is shorter relative to the booster; and/or the sustainer fins are more than 50% up the combined vehicle's length....these tend to wander a bit off the pad. Much like the forward finned guided missiles, they search for direction. Once the velocities get up there, the twisting and turning may lead to rapid deconstruction
.Any way to shorten the booster and lengthen the sustainer?
I know this isn't your first go-around
, just trying to help you keep the sustainer within a 10 mile radius. Nevertheless, watching with interest; and wishing I'd be at Airfest this year!-Eric (who doesn't care what Rocksim says, and prefers shorter relative boosters and longer relative sustainers)-
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CJ,,
This is readin like the coolest flight I've ever seen....
Please keep in mind,, I kinda like complexity ( as long as it's for a good reason )....
I am so glad I'm going to be there to see this flight..
Teddy
This is readin like the coolest flight I've ever seen....
Please keep in mind,, I kinda like complexity ( as long as it's for a good reason )....
I am so glad I'm going to be there to see this flight..
Teddy
I'm with Teddy on this one, not only because I get to watch it, but I also get to pick CJ's brain on my version of this rocket. I already know I will need a 58" tube for the booster, and I have no idea how he plans to put a pound of lead and the new Missleworks GPS in the N/C.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Well my lead came in today. I spent hours looking at various types of lead looking for the densest stuff I could find. Shot...but # 8 was smallest...various solid bars, but that would mean casting it to fit & I didn't want to be melting lead. [been there done that]
Then I remembered my dad used to make golf clubs, he used powdered lead dumped down the shaft to get added swing weight and momentum with his big headed drivers. So I went to "Golfworks" supplier of all thing golf & viola...found it. But the same company sells on E-bay with cheaper shipping, actually after the first one, the rest is free!
Anyone with a small minimum diameter project needing nose weight, pay attention, I'm on to something here! This is as dense as t gets without melting and making a solid plug.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/252047142693
So the big question: solid lead has a density of 2.43 cubic inches, how close would the powder be?
Pretty damn close. Here are dimensions of container came in. [roughly] To the fill line.
2.25 x 1 .75
I poured a bit on paper next to 325 mesh mag to see grain size.
After pushing around with finger and pouring off, it left no residue, unlike the mag.
Finally a lb in cereal bowl after swishing around no lead residue....I'm impressed with it.
Measured from top of eyebolt in 3in. NC........14in of usable space.
After filling with 1 lb of lead 12in of space....leaving plenty for a 45in chute and shock cord.
Only lost 2in of tapered area of cone....Success!
Will mix with epoxy & pour later after rigging ice-water bath to keep from overheating.
I have thought intensely about your comments Eric & have a "plan B" of bringing a payload for to Punisher just in case.
My thinking as of now, is flying first with 2-g 54mm motor in sustainer and another 54 in booster which yields a stability factor of almost 5.5.
After playing more with sims....by shortening booster, I lose stability, hmmmm go figure. I post the file later.
Not firing sustainer, just have motor in it for added stability. Fire separation charge & booster which yield around a 5,000ft flight.
If it gets squirrelly at all- go to plan B. I'm trying to keep this as compact as possible, so hopefully i won't end up with an Amramm.lol
Wayco...got the lead in. Rest assured, when I get the GPS, I WILL get it in there....even if I have to use a shoe horn.LOL
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watermelonman
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Hah, my GPS units are too large to get into a stock Punisher with a 6XL motor. I was going to try some tricks next time, maybe even a short payload bay added to the nose base.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
You can cheat by using a longer NC coupler...say 9-10 in. and a 3-4in. vent band. You should be able to get GPS in a 10in coupler. If not make it 12 with a 4-5 vent band. Saves adding payload.
watermelonman
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I think it was the coupler. I am still not seeing how the fins are different, though!
watermelonman
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I think you will like the way this is coming together, especially when it lights up with another 6XL! I will post pictures when it makes more progress. Right now it is on hold while I finish up L3, also exciting!
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Finally flew this last weekend in Bayboro NC.
Results were beyond expectation!
Here is sim file one of the many, many I ran to find how I wished to stage regarding coast time, separation charge & sustainer ignitition.
This is proof of concept for a much larger venture in the making....but first things first.
I nailed it as far as preliminary work went. AT K-1103-x for booster with 375lbs of thrust to a J-430 WT [2-grain] sustainer.
Booster burn time of 1.6 sec with separation charge [.5g from Pet2 timer in booster] at burn out. 3.8 sec from start of flight to sustainer ignition, but only if altitude of 1800ft attained.[ignition from sustainer RRC3]
After flight data confirmed sustainer ignition at 2800ft & 4.8 sec. This is due to RRC3 arming at 300ft and variation of timer function. So next time I will know how to figure my "Kentucky" windage...LOL There is an extra 1 sec to contend with in my project.
Stack weight was 12.6 lbs. & with motors 18.6 lbs. The CG was within 1/4in. after verifying, by balancing the stack with my belt.
Altitude of 10,606 was slightly higher than sims 10,485 darn close though. velocity was considerably higher at 2036 [M 1.8] vs 1066 [M.97]
I had the rail at a good 7-8 degrees trying to avoid the tree line [see photo] & lost a good 1500-2000 ft in altitude for sure.
It was picture perfect flight. Shot of pad like a bullet......after separation charge the sustainer looked like a boosted dart[no doubt helped by the 1 lb. of lead in NC] 2.8 sec later at 2800 lit & flew like on a rail. No wiggle or coning from either section, just straight & true.
Unfortunately the booster is now 4 ft underground ...no chute deploy. We saw it come in with customary screaming whistle & you could feel the ground shutter from the hit. After 2 hrs of searching corn stubble gave up & went on to find sustainer 1.7 miles upwind in a clear cut area in mature woods....stupid lucky there!
So although booster is lost I'm happy as a clam that all performed as hoped! New parts are awaiting build for new booster. Carolina Composites is making an aluminum interstage coupler this go round. [practice for the big one coming] lol
I will show av-bay/GPS set up later...... was using a Telemetrum. I also lost lock, but my Marshall saved the day for tracking.
Ordered some LiPo's and balanced charger today, a first for me, so another learning curve to bite into. The MissleWorks GPS/RTX will be here in a few days , so yet another learning curve with mounting both rocket & base units & mating to the Lipo's. Yes I will provide pics & documentation for all of it.
New Booster to ready for MidWestPower coming soon. Not sure what I'll stick in the stack this time.
Aslo have some shots of the Carolina Composite 2-stage 38 carbon beast to share another beauty by Charlie Ogino.
By the way he beat the I record with a flight to 12,300ft in a 16in long Carbon bullet, but we could not find the rocket. GPS lost lock shortly after apogee, but he's building another for MWP. Wish it could fly out west where ground level is over 5000 rather than here at 600, would make a huge difference.
Plans are to eventually fly this configuration down the road. Now that we know the stack works.....but baby steps first. This one's a long way off.
I also have a Carbon Punisher to reveal soon, made by Charlie, it's a real beauty!
Results were beyond expectation!
Here is sim file one of the many, many I ran to find how I wished to stage regarding coast time, separation charge & sustainer ignitition.
This is proof of concept for a much larger venture in the making....but first things first.
I nailed it as far as preliminary work went. AT K-1103-x for booster with 375lbs of thrust to a J-430 WT [2-grain] sustainer.
Booster burn time of 1.6 sec with separation charge [.5g from Pet2 timer in booster] at burn out. 3.8 sec from start of flight to sustainer ignition, but only if altitude of 1800ft attained.[ignition from sustainer RRC3]
After flight data confirmed sustainer ignition at 2800ft & 4.8 sec. This is due to RRC3 arming at 300ft and variation of timer function. So next time I will know how to figure my "Kentucky" windage...LOL There is an extra 1 sec to contend with in my project.
Stack weight was 12.6 lbs. & with motors 18.6 lbs. The CG was within 1/4in. after verifying, by balancing the stack with my belt.
Altitude of 10,606 was slightly higher than sims 10,485 darn close though. velocity was considerably higher at 2036 [M 1.8] vs 1066 [M.97]
I had the rail at a good 7-8 degrees trying to avoid the tree line [see photo] & lost a good 1500-2000 ft in altitude for sure.
It was picture perfect flight. Shot of pad like a bullet......after separation charge the sustainer looked like a boosted dart[no doubt helped by the 1 lb. of lead in NC] 2.8 sec later at 2800 lit & flew like on a rail. No wiggle or coning from either section, just straight & true.
Unfortunately the booster is now 4 ft underground ...no chute deploy. We saw it come in with customary screaming whistle & you could feel the ground shutter from the hit. After 2 hrs of searching corn stubble gave up & went on to find sustainer 1.7 miles upwind in a clear cut area in mature woods....stupid lucky there!
So although booster is lost I'm happy as a clam that all performed as hoped! New parts are awaiting build for new booster. Carolina Composites is making an aluminum interstage coupler this go round. [practice for the big one coming] lol
I will show av-bay/GPS set up later...... was using a Telemetrum. I also lost lock, but my Marshall saved the day for tracking.
Ordered some LiPo's and balanced charger today, a first for me, so another learning curve to bite into. The MissleWorks GPS/RTX will be here in a few days , so yet another learning curve with mounting both rocket & base units & mating to the Lipo's. Yes I will provide pics & documentation for all of it.
New Booster to ready for MidWestPower coming soon. Not sure what I'll stick in the stack this time.
Aslo have some shots of the Carolina Composite 2-stage 38 carbon beast to share another beauty by Charlie Ogino.
By the way he beat the I record with a flight to 12,300ft in a 16in long Carbon bullet, but we could not find the rocket. GPS lost lock shortly after apogee, but he's building another for MWP. Wish it could fly out west where ground level is over 5000 rather than here at 600, would make a huge difference.
Plans are to eventually fly this configuration down the road. Now that we know the stack works.....but baby steps first. This one's a long way off.
I also have a Carbon Punisher to reveal soon, made by Charlie, it's a real beauty!
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watermelonman
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Man that is awesome. Congratulations on the two stage success!
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Wow is that on the money Jim...
Talk about a complex flight...
You hit it on the head too..
That is not easy,, that comes from experience...
Good for you an...
Congrats on the flight...
I can't wait to see this fly at MWP...
See you there man...
Teddy
Talk about a complex flight...
You hit it on the head too..
That is not easy,, that comes from experience...
Good for you an...
Congrats on the flight...
I can't wait to see this fly at MWP...
See you there man...
Teddy
blackbrandt
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Hey... I didn't know you flew at Bayboro...
ECayemberg
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Congrats on the flight, CJ! Well done, and I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Really cool project, inspiring to get my Punisher in transformation mode from parts to a flyable machine. Looking forward to seeing it (and you) at MWP!!!
-Eric-
. Really cool project, inspiring to get my Punisher in transformation mode from parts to a flyable machine. Looking forward to seeing it (and you) at MWP!!!
-Eric-
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Thank-you!
Funny thing Teddy.... couldn't find that harness I got from you to put in booster, good thing too, would have been such a waste to get only one flight out of it and bury it. Well I just found the bugger, so in it goes on the new improved version. Thanks again.
Glad you & Sandy had such a good time at Airfest. You were like a kid at Xmas waiting to open presents.
Hey... I didn't know you flew at Bayboro...
First time there, nice field. Will be back sometime.
Congrats on the flight, CJ! Well done, and I'm happy to be proven wrong
Really cool project, inspiring to get my Punisher in transformation mode from parts to a flyable machine. Looking forward to seeing it (and you) at MWP!!!
-Eric-
Eric, your words kept ringing in my head after the first flight at Bong. Less than optimal with that Amraam weave, when thrust quite.
I nixed the first booster in lieu of a longer one with larger fins. [yeah sims said make it longer] added 1 lb. of lead, & that did the trick. Never done so many sims for a rocket as this one. So in some way YOU were helpful with that advice. You weren't wrong.....just not right.....LOl
Just trying to Max out both section of a 3in. We'll know for sure when the day comes I put a 6xl 75 in the booster & a 6xl in sustainer.
Congratulations on your flight CJ. I need to pick your brain again regarding the previous version I got from you at Airfest. I need a rocksim file so I can start working on motor combinations for it.
Sorry to cut you off on the call, but we were trying to fit my Extreme flight in between rain showers. Got it off on an M1550 to 13,800 ft. and the Eggfinder made the recovery easy.
I will talk to you soon.
Sorry to cut you off on the call, but we were trying to fit my Extreme flight in between rain showers. Got it off on an M1550 to 13,800 ft. and the Eggfinder made the recovery easy.
I will talk to you soon.
markkoelsch
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Jim, very cool. Mach 2.8...measured by which device?
