LDRS Tweaks

First I want to say "Thank You Very Much" to all the organizers and volunteers that made LDRS 34 a very fun and cool event.
Everyone involved was very positive and helpful, even in the face of challenging weather conditions.

There were a few suggestions I wanted to very respectfully submit that may facilitate making a truly great event run as smoothly as possible in the future.
If anyone else has respectful suggestions to make please feel free to add your thoughts here as well.

1) Cover all launch electronics boxes left out each night with secured tarps or garbage bags. Even if rain is not predicted, overnight condensation can cause a lot of problems.

2) Flight cards: avoid glossy card stock as this makes pencil unreadable

3) Flight cards: use different colored cards for high altitude flights expected to require FAA call-ins. This would make it easier for LCO team to pick out high-fliers and take full advantage of high-altitude windows. I do understand that everyone was trying to keep things moving as best they could, but was tough for my high-flier to sit on the rail for four hours on Friday afternoon while over a dozen other high-fliers went up.

4) Coordinate LCO and Pad Managers: so LCO has Pad Manager prevent fliers from starting to load their rockets about 10 minutes before a launch zone is expected to go hot. On several occasions I saw a launch zone that was ready to go delayed 10-30 minutes as one late flyer followed by another late flyer gets one more rocket ready.

Again thanks to all involved for a great event.

Actually we did cover / secure the sector boxes and all active electronics. The lesson we needed to learn was that the passive cables were also subject to moisture. On the CATO side we are devising a more immune system that dos not require as many connection points. URRG is also likely looking into similar steps.

What would help a lot is for a few extra people to just show up early on and lend a hand. Once we discovered the moisture problem, it was labor intensive to correct. Even if we completely mitigate that problem, some other gremlin will rear its head needing simple manpower to stomp out.

The rest of your ideas are spot-on.

At our next year's URRF, and hopefully a future LDRS we will be changing the RB role somewhat. He/she will stay by the LCO table, and using the card holder system CATO designed we will be assigning an individual pad to each flier, rather than letting them choose a given row. Each slot will be labeled with the rail in use at that pad. We will not be changing rails, as that led to issues that delayed flights. Additionally we are going to have aisles in the main "road" behind the LCO table. We are thinking of 3 - one for those needing 1515 rails, another for 1010 rails, and a third for rods.

That way when folks head out to the pad there will be no question of rail size. When a given sized rail is in use, they will wait to load until the next side opens up.
When the card holder is full it will be presented to the LCO for launch as soon as that side of clear of fliers.

We planned on 15 minutes to load a side, but in some cases folks took longer and we gave them extra time, which we probably should not have done in the interest of efficiency as it held things up for others, but especially with certs, clusters/multistage rockets in the H - L range we didn't want to rush folks to the point they made mistakes and lost rockets.

This way the only launch delays should be for those needing call in windows.

The use of colored cards, or a stick on colored dot placed on the standard flight card (which would be easier to implement, given the call in altitudes varied each day base on cloud layers, etc) for call-ins is a great idea!

The frequency board idea worked out pretty well. Fliers used it, with only a few forgetting to delete their entry after recovery. As I said to CG and Gheem, a big thanks go out to all of the fliers for the consideration they showed for fellow fliers by using the frequency board! It really helped!

As to the electronics, yes we had an unanticipated issue with condensation as Al described, and after making new RJ45 connectors, replacing controllers with spares and trying a few odds and ends came up with a work around that allowed us to launch until the system fully dried out and was once again fully operational around 12:30 - 1pm.

Once the work around was put into place (somewhere after 10am, I can't remember exactly with all the troubleshooting we had going on) the rockets were launched without delays, as each pad was individually connected to the system while the one before had its launched rocket reaching apogee. That certainly made for an interesting few hours....

The end result of that day, despite the condensation issues we still managed to get up more than 600 flights! I am sure we could have gotten maybe as much as another 100 had the electronics not messed up....

I can assure you that all of the committee and volunteers were just as bummed out as the fliers with Mother Nature's washout on 2 of our 5 days. Hopefully the next time we hold a regional/national event Mother Nature will cut us more slack!

Greg

Greg Young said:

Once the work around was put into place (somewhere after 10am, I can't remember exactly with all the troubleshooting we had going on) the rockets were launched without delays, as each pad was individually connected to the system while the one before had its launched rocket reaching apogee. That certainly made for an interesting few hours....

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That was a crazy fury of launches once it got rolling. Slowed down a bit with more "verbose" LCO's , but was jumping most of the day. Radio broadcast was helpful out in the field and while driving for recovery. I like the colored launch card idea, with the changing levels, stickers may be a good idea.

Jumping from bank to bank was necessary at one point, but I felt like frogger out there

Rain was a bummer.... but we got two good days.

DizWolf said:

Radio broadcast was helpful out in the field and while driving for recovery.

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Heck, the radio broadcast was handy in the paddock. From where I was parked way over at the low end of C-row, I couldn't really hear the announcements well. But the radio in my SUV could, not to mention I could continue to listen as I drove in/out. The broadcast eventually petered out climbing the hill out of Potter on 247.

EXPjawa said:

Heck, the radio broadcast was handy in the paddock. From where I was parked way over at the low end of C-row, I couldn't really hear the announcements well. But the radio in my SUV could, not to mention I could continue to listen as I drove in/out. The broadcast eventually petered out climbing the hill out of Potter on 247.

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It certainly beat having to spend $$$$ for additional speakers, a larger amp and wiring for listening along the flight line, and addressed the need for monitoring out at the away cells.

The rest was a bonus Glad to hear it covered the areas we needed it to. I'll leave it at that...... :grin:

Greg

I wonder if we should have a small cell (perhaps 2-3 pads) for "special needs" flights like those Fred T. was sending up. Perhaps even put a table out there for them to configure the multistage rockets rather than needing to lay them on the ground. Basically just leave it out there for those who need an extended period to set up and, once ready, jump over to that one as convenient. We could also use it for launches that require special rods/rails or what-have you that tend to delay a rack being ready. I would place it so traffic is possible while other launches are taking place.

I think it may be a good idea to have 2 or 3 pads out at 500 dedicated solely to the high flyiers that need windows. It would tie up somemore equipment, but would keep things flowing better for sure.

H_Rocket said:

Greg

I wonder if we should have a small cell (perhaps 2-3 pads) for "special needs" flights like those Fred T. was sending up. Perhaps even put a table out there for them to configure the multistage rockets rather than needing to lay them on the ground. Basically just leave it out there for those who need an extended period to set up and, once ready, jump over to that one as convenient. We could also use it for launches that require special rods/rails or what-have you that tend to delay a rack being ready. I would place it so traffic is possible while other launches are taking place.

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If you have the equipment to do this
I think this is a wonderful idea..
A specific row of pads for complex flights that will take a
bit longer to set up at the pad will save you time for sure....

I have to say though,,,
I think the entire group of people that ran the event from top to bottom
deserves a standing ovation,, I saw them run their rear ends off,, the whole bunch of them...
And I wasn't aware of the flight count,,, 600,, that's awfully impressive,, considering the short flyable time....

Thank you all so much.........

Teddy

Al - that's a great idea! It would have been nice to have a post LDRS hotwash conference call, but with all the things going on that is not likely, so I guess we'll each have to right our ideas down and share them when the next big one comes along....
Dan - that would certainly work. We really should get some extra pads and 1515's to allow for that, as those pads were in short supply.
Teddy, thank you! LDRS34 was a culmination of the work of all of the volunteers, all the great vendors like yourself who supported the launch, and of course all of the fliers that made all of this happen!
Although most of the committee members, and many of the volunteers didn't get a chance to fly, we had more fun than if we had just attended and flown. We all learned a lot from this event!
Greg

Is it customary to have a speaker at the Saturday night Banquet?? Many of the previous LSRD's I've attended had them and I was somewhat disappointed this years event didn't include one.

See, that's the problem. You meant to go to LSRD.

Actually reaction to speakers is mixed. Some find it fascinating, others just want to keep the banquet festivities to a minimum. They want to eat and see the BOD action then crawl back to their room and collapse. I almost think a separate night at the host hotel with a speaker that is not tied to the cost of the meal might be a better idea.

A set of pads right on the midline, out past the two banks would be accessible at all times, you just really need to keep your head up out there. I'd require a spotter with anyone setting up. You'd clearly have distance, but rocket's come in more often out there Would be a good spot to setup clusters/staging/towers etc. We really do need to look into some good MD towers that are permanently setup.

Stable1 said:

Is it customary to have a speaker at the Saturday night Banquet?? Many of the previous LSRD's I've attended had them and I was somewhat disappointed this years event didn't include one.

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We tried to line some up. Unfortunately the budget didn't allow covering flight costs in addition to hotel rooms and the banquet.
As it turns out the banquet was a whole evening event without a speaker, so in the end it appears it worked out best the way it was.
It also gave those attending more of a chance to socialize...

A hydraulic or semi-hydraulic launch tower at 500 feet would be very helpfull for non-complex M powered flights in rockets over 60-70 pounds.
There were 2 of these towers at the away cell but these non cluster..non staged flights are better seen from 500 feet.
We'll have more of these hydraulic towers available at the next LDRS-URRF event in Potter.

Tom C.
MARS....Geneseo NY
MDRA....Maryland

I think the pad arrangement was very good. One selfish suggestion is limit the 500ft pads to M's or complex L's unless you are going to have a strict range boss and pad assignment (difficult). Its not fair to us old folks lugging out 50# rockets in "Lemans start" pad loading situations. The near pads gets filled and people with their J and K rockets load up on the 500' pads before we get out there.

jderimig said:

I think the pad arrangement was very good. One selfish suggestion is limit the 500ft pads to M's or complex L's unless you are going to have a strict range boss and pad assignment (difficult). Its not fair to us old folks lugging out 50# rockets in "Lemans start" pad loading situations. The near pads gets filled and people with their J and K rockets load up on the 500' pads before we get out there.

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+1...

Teddy

jderimig said:

I think the pad arrangement was very good. One selfish suggestion is limit the 500ft pads to M's or complex L's unless you are going to have a strict range boss and pad assignment (difficult). Its not fair to us old folks lugging out 50# rockets in "Lemans start" pad loading situations. The near pads gets filled and people with their J and K rockets load up on the 500' pads before we get out there.

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John... transport to the 500' hydraulic pad using a truck pulled open trailer...same as what we use at NYPOWER at MARS should be available.
This transport would operate independently of the away cell pick up truck system and would be the only method to load the semi-hydraulic pad at 500'.
Our "Lemans start" days have ended.

Tom C.
MARS...Geneseo NY
MDRA...Maryland

jderimig said:

I think the pad arrangement was very good. One selfish suggestion is limit the 500ft pads to M's or complex L's unless you are going to have a strict range boss and pad assignment (difficult). Its not fair to us old folks lugging out 50# rockets in "Lemans start" pad loading situations. The near pads gets filled and people with their J and K rockets load up on the 500' pads before we get out there.

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At this past LDRS the 500 ft pads were limited to exactly that: complex Ls and simple Ms... The rockets were to be taken out by Dan's truck, or by hand carry depending on what the flier wanted. The truck otherwise only carried out only to the away cell, so we figured it could also haul the heavier ones to the 500 ft pads. It sounds as though all the fliers may not have be aware of that??

Bottom line we could have used more pads with 1515 rail...

Saw a bunch of J/K/L flights off the 500 footers.... And guys lugging out the big boys got stuck waiting.

I would like to say that this is BY FAR the biggest launch I have attended and my thanks to all that contributed to put it on. I had a cato on Thursday and that was it for the day. On Friday I planned to hit it hard with a few high flights on Friday, had a L 1350 ready for 1:00 that was going to 15,000 + and was told that a window would be called in in 1 hour, I waited and missed that one. I asked and was told another call in would be called in about and hour. I got in line and missed that one as I couldn't get a 1515 rail. No problem, I came back in 30 minutes (had to pee and got out of line) made the last window call in for Friday only to find that there was no 1515 rail available; the pad manager looked at my card and saw that I had come from Nova Scotia and told me that he would get me a pad, no matter what so I could launch; I'm so sorry I didn't get his name as I appreciated him going the extra mile and coming back in a few minutes on a four wheeler with a 1515 rail and I made the window for a flight of 16,331. To be honest if he didn't get me that rail, with the rain out days I would not have flown a full flight at LDRS! Man I appreciate your efforts that day. My suggestion would be more priority for call in window flyers when the window is open. Not to be an a$$ but I watched so many lp, mp and lower hp flights during the open call in window while waiting in line to rack for the window that at the least was frustrating. I guess being a Canadian I will be damned if I was going to be a vocal like so many around me, I guess it isn't in my nature. Honestly I totally enjoyed the event completely I spite of the weather and line ups and my planned lack of flights. I only hope to get to that awesome launch venue again in the future,


Greg