Anyone else had a bad experience with Estes?

So, I'm new, and brand new to rockets. To make a quick story short I spent over 2 decades building scale models and in the final few years did them all with dioramas and ALWAYS had a great experience with the plastic model companies (to the point of them sending me free parts with free shipping, once even when I told em I bought a model from a garage sale and it was missing a part and other times when they simply screwed up parts).

So I got into rocketry and my first rocket (from Estes) had a terrible design, even worse instructions, and my email to them was replied to with a defensive condescending email that essentially boiled down to them saying they offer no customer service in terms of extra parts if they sell failed rocket kits.

It was just a really bad experience and it really made me reconsider rocket building.

...that doesn't sound like Christine at all. Usually the customer service at Estes is first rate. What kit did you get and what was wrong (in your opinion) with it? I can tell you one thing, there are many hi power kits sold without any instruction at all. They expect that you know what you're doing by then

I too am surprised as I have only had good experiences. My issues have only been with motors, and she always replied promptly and fixed the issue. I have built a bunch of Estes kits and don't remember any issues. But maybe that's because I HAVE built a lot and may skim over some details.

This is a 'Skill Level 5' rocket. I know of your plastic model experience. Many rocket parts require more than just plugging things together, they require actual fitting. The Mercury rocket has a reputation of causing experienced rocketeers fits and an occasional crying session. All I'm saying is don't expect Tamiya type of fit. Want a real rocketry challenge? Get a FlisKits Decim8...good luck

I haven't built that particular Estes model so I can't comment from experience. Some pictures of the parts you are describing would help me (and maybe others) visualize the problem better. Over the years, my dealings with Estes customer service have been exceptionally good. Are you still pursuing a resolution with them or have you "moved on" ?

I found this recent thread of built Estes Redstone; perhaps you can get some feedback on his experience.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-new(est)-reissue-Redstone&highlight=redstone

No.

I have nothing but positive experience with Estes, and with the Mercury Redstone. No problems with the tower on my kit. Are you confident that you did not make a mistake? I know I make at least one for every kit I build!

Cheers,
Michael

spaceace said:

It was the new Mercury Redstone. Had tons of trouble with the emergency escape part that attaches to to the top of the crew capsule. I spent hours looking up pictures of the real Redstone and found the manuals from the old Estes Redstone rockets and they all showed that the triangular piece fits directly into the longer pieces that have specific holes drilled into them to also indicate this. Turns out that the triangular piece does not come close to fitting into those holes as suggested by real pics of the rocket or the instructions of the new or old kits.
The problem is that the 3 longer strut pieces have those holes drilled out. So with the triangular piece not actually going into them as suggested you get a messy build that is unlikely to line up properly with the top piece. And furthermore those holes are left empty meaning if you want a perfect build you gotta fill em in and then paint them. It's a terrible design.
It's horrible model construction through and through. Either you admit you f'ed up the design or you admit your design was meant to look like crud, not fit well, and require many extra hours to correct.
If you try to align the correct piece into the correct holes of the long struts then the struts go out at almost 30 degree angles making the assembly impossible beyond belief. And if you turn the triangle piece to allow the construction you end up with unfilled holes in the long struts making it an imperfect model.
I don't know what you want me to say... An incorrectly manufactured part is just that. I spent over an hour before sending a request for new parts trying to figure it out and it simply doesn't work. Either you have parts that don't fit or you have holes in the longer struts that are unfilled. It's bad design.

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I'm not speaking for Estes, this is what worked best for me -
After some trouble with dry fitting (shown in the new instructions) I pulled up the older Centuri method.
While you might assemble the tower from the bottom up (like in the new Estes instructions)

It's much easier to assemble the tower from the top down like in the older Centuri instructions.
Take a look at the previous #1921 Liberty Bell instructions from the Estes website, they used the old Centuri illustrations and descriptive copy to make the tower and capsule:
https://www.estesrockets.com/media/instructions/001921_MERCURY_REDSTONE.pdf

Here's a preview from the blog build:
After the tower is glued together first, (top down) the triangular cap piece will fit into the recess holes inside the tower legs a little to the side, not straight on.
With that slight turn, the horizontal side bars of the tower and cap piece Vs will still end up parallel.



After the cap is glued to the inside of the tower, glue the cap on the capsule, lining up the tower inverted Vs with their glue holes.
Then gently push the inverted tower Vs in and into the antenna section cap holes.



It is confusing but when glued together from the top down it actually fits together very well. The Centuri molds are very clean and detailed.
Some minor paint touch-ups -



I've just started the Mercury Redstone build on my build blog at:
www.modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com
I'm starting with the fins first, it'll be a week before I get to the capsule and tower.

Well, if your first communication had the same tone as you exhibited here, what did you expect? Not that i think that you should have a bad experience, but you're dealing with people and a bit of tact goes a long way.

dave carver said:

This is a 'Skill Level 5' rocket. I know of your plastic model experience. Many rocket parts require more than just plugging things together, they require actual fitting. The Mercury rocket has a reputation of causing experienced rocketeers fits and an occasional crying session. All I'm saying is don't expect Tamiya type of fit. Want a real rocketry challenge? Get a FlisKits Decim8...good luck

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Actually Estes lists this as Skill Level 3; however I would have to agree that following the directions alone to build the tower can be quite confounding...I've built many models, but the design of the tower was quite tricky, but I did finally figure it out on my own before the plastic cement dried.

This doesn't sound like Mike from Estes at all.

I've always had GREAT service from Estes. I have never seen this rocket in person, let alone built one, so I can't discuss the issues with the tower. And I agree that kit instructions are often vague and obscure. But service is usually prompt, polite, and helpful.

KenECoyote said:

Actually Estes lists this as Skill Level 3; however I would have to agree that following the directions alone to build the tower can be quite confounding...I've built many models, but the design of the tower was quite tricky, but I did finally figure it out on my own before the plastic cement dried.

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The old one was a 5...

I've been building rockets for 3 years and IMHO Estes kits are thin, ultra cheap with the worst recovery items. If you think your going to have a bone stock kit fly for years forget it. That likely won't happen. You will have to beef up recovery, and or tubes, fin connections etc which you can learn from these forums, or apogee's videos etc. But the kits are also priced accordingly.
The shipping that I've received on 2 occasions from Estes on replacement couplers and tubes come thrown in the box with almost no packing resulting in damages to all parts but were still usable.
Great instructions though and I still like their kits. Also the components all fit together nicely.
I've never contacted their customer service so I cannot comment, but the shippers there have not been doing me any favors- so I buy most my Estes stuff from vendors - which I'm sure they prefer.

Once you get into some other larger kits you may find that Estes instructions are awesome but there are much better, stronger kits.
Like a L3 tap told me recently "just move on to fiberglass kits as soon as possible and don't look back " as for instructions... Look for a build thread .

dave carver said:

The old one was a 5...

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The oldest Estes version was a 6.

dcullen said:

Well, if your first communication had the same tone as you exhibited here, what did you expect? Not that i think that you should have a bad experience, but you're dealing with people and a bit of tact goes a long way.

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Agreed

hcmbanjo said:

The oldest Estes version was a 6.

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And do't let your Stepsisters kid play with it when it is finished.:y:

It'd be nice if someone who has successfully built one of the Mercury Redstone or Mercury Atlas kits could do a video of the capsule assembly to show how it's done.

K'Tesh said:

It'd be nice if someone who has successfully built one of the Mercury Redstone or Mercury Atlas kits could do a video of the capsule assembly to show how it's done.

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For my money, it don't get no better than Chris Michielssen's modelrocketbuilding blog. I can wait.

Thanks for posting the preview hcmbanjo. Helped me "see" what the OP's issue is.

BTW I'm not disputing the OP's account of his experience, happens to the best of companies. It's a shame his first post here described a problem. Hope he comes back with another model, successful launch report, and a proper intro.

KenECoyote said:

Actually Estes lists this as Skill Level 3

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dave carver said:

The old one was a 5...

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hcmbanjo said:

The oldest Estes version was a 6.

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This one goes to eleven.

Did you call the right place? Never had anything but stellar customer service from Estes. Not only have I had everything fixed in a timely fashion they even fixed what was a bad packing job from another vendor.

TA

I've built many of these over the years. The fit is not great and they are sort of a pain to put together. In the picture of the tower above you can see even when put together well, the feet are twisted and the points of the triangle pieces don't go squarely into the holes they are at an angle somewhat. It will build into a decent looking tower but it is not up to modern plastic model standards in my opinion. That said I don't know what Estes could do about it other than making a new mold.

I won't comment on the tone or replies from Estes.

Frank

Ze design is perfect, it is you who fail!



Seriously, though. Anyone who says the tri-language instructions are good has their expectations set remarkably low.

Is that an L.A. 3 and a Portland 5?

ThirstyBarbarian said:

This one goes to eleven.

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Those capsule and escape tower plastic parts might have left over from the early production runs many, many years ago.

Every chance that the parts had been jumbled in boxes and warped over time.

Considering the vintage of the Mercury spacecraft injection molds, they were not all that out of character compared to some plastic models from that period. Nothing like modern molds.

I built a couple of them way back and while not easy, I was able to get it together in decent shape using my plastic model skills. I always like to dry fit and look for problems before adding the glue.

Your story of poor Estes customer service is quite rare. Either you caught someone having a very bad day or you rubbed them the wrong way fairly intensely.

I have found I always get better responses if I approach any company with any given problem in a calm, polite and respectful manner.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

This one goes to eleven.

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Heh I don't remember, were the fins 4 or 5 pieces? I know even they were a pain to assemble.

Nick@JET said:

I've been building rockets for 3 years and IMHO Estes kits are thin, ultra cheap with the worst recovery items. If you think your going to have a bone stock kit fly for years forget it. That likely won't happen. You will have to beef up recovery, and or tubes, fin connections etc which you can learn from these forums, or apogee's videos etc. But the kits are also priced accordingly.
The shipping that I've received on 2 occasions from Estes on replacement couplers and tubes come thrown in the box with almost no packing resulting in damages to all parts but were still usable.
Great instructions though and I still like their kits. Also the components all fit together nicely.
I've never contacted their customer service so I cannot comment, but the shippers there have not been doing me any favors- so I buy most my Estes stuff from vendors - which I'm sure they prefer.

Once you get into some other larger kits you may find that Estes instructions are awesome but there are much better, stronger kits.
Like a L3 tap told me recently "just move on to fiberglass kits as soon as possible and don't look back " as for instructions... Look for a build thread .

Click to expand...

I agree that Estes has "cheap" recovery items, specifically the rubber band shock cord, and chutes that are not bad for the price range but certainly aren't meant to last. But I don't expect a nylon chute in a $19.99 kit I buy on sale for $8.99 either.

Otherwise, I haven't found quality to be poor. The tubes are no thinner than anyone else's tubes of same designation. An Estes BT20 is the same as a Fliskits BT20 and so on. Nose cones are reasonable, again given the price range. My biggest complaint there is mold lines, which vary from cone to cone. Fin material and balsa cones/transitions tend to be good quality in my experience.

I've contacted Estes customer service on three occasions in my adult rocketry life (5 years now), and on all three occasions they sent me a whole new kit in response to some part that was damaged in packaging or shipping. Perfectly satisfied.

I'm a happy Estes customer and in return for the good service I've gotten I've let them use a couple of my launch photos. Karma, dudes... karma!

Marc

Edit: I still have and regularly fly some of the first Estes rockets I built when I became a BAR 5 years ago.

dave carver said:

The old one was a 5...

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I would have to say that the Estes Skill Level ratings have been off on a number of occasions (The Venus Probe and Outlander come to mind and I'm sure there are more). I can be convinced this is Skill Level 4, but I don't think it's a 5.

BTW - I just recalled that when I built the tower portion, following the directions wasn't helping and I ended up assembling the tower in a different order than the directions and that worked well for me. The instructions begin with building the base of the tower/top of the capsule and then gluing each side of the tower to that assembly one at a time. This was a mess to try to work around with all the small connection points, the way the tower twists and working with plastic cement. In the end, it didn't seem like it was working well, so I tore off the base before the cement was solid, glued the tower pieced together separately, then glued that on to the base. I also used the base to assure alignment before the tower cement fully dried. Note that this isn't the only Estes kit with less than stellar directions; however as a model builder, I've seen worse.

I have built both the Redstone and the Atlas and I can say that while the fit is poor on the tower pieces, someone with 20 yrs plastic modeling experience should be able to get it together successfully. I also have had nothing but good experiences with Estes customer service. YMMV

Glenn

Like Many others have posted Estes Customer service as ALWAYS been Exceptional and I've been flying Estes and Centuri products since the mid 1960's.

Yes the rubber band shock cord is too Short, but then again so are the shock cords in just about every other Mod-Roc manufacturer out there today. Other then that I have in my fleet models with the .013" thich wall tubes dating back to the late 70's that still fly and are still as flight worthy as the day they were built.

One of the much older models in my fleet is the original Mercury-Redstone who's smaller scale made the dowel tower even harder to construct but when completed made for a very nice flying model. while I didn't build one of the larger 1/35th mercury-Redstones I did kit bash one into a Little Joe-1 useing the very same capsule and tower kit the OP is complaining about. The Brand new Estes Kit is using the old molds.
While it was a bit of a challange, given a decent amount of patients just about any modeler should be able to work-out the method to get the plastic Capsule & tower to fit up just fine.

Working on Scale models is an Art. In 45+ years building both Model rockets and Plastic Model conversions I can say without hesitation there is NOT a Single Scale kit that is all that accurate or as easy to assemble as even the hardest to assemble Plastic Model kit. If you want a challange try making a scale flying Mercury-Atlas at 73.3 Scale (Bt-60 max OD tube.
As for instruction accuracy.. OMG! Have any of you looked as some of the "SpecialHobby" or Tayma instructions HO Man are they a Laugh!

While I can't condone poor customer service, the OP's post doesn't sound at all like Mike whom I've had quite a few conversations with in the recent past. I'm pretty sure Attitude has a lot to do with it.