Estes Wizard First flight

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

EFr_000

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Hi All,

Just found this forum and I have a couple of questions.

I bought for 3 Estes Wizard rocket kits for my 3 daughters (ages 8, twins 4). We built all 3 a few months back and had our first launch 2 days ago (Saturday). We weren't really prepared for what to bring other than rockets, motors and wadding. After I got the wadding and A8-3 motors in I had each of the girls have it inspected by the rocket inspector. A few adjustments with adding a little tape to the motors and nose cones to snug it up a bit better (they were just sliding off). The girls each got to slam the launch button after the countdown. Watched each fly into the air. 2 of the 3 had good timing for the cones and streamer to pop off... the 3rd popped a bit to early.

So we went to go and grab them off the ground, all three had slight damage to the fins, landing on the concrete runway. All 3 had some damage to the body tubes. 2 cracked the paint along the seam close to where the top of motor. 1 was actually cracked open along the tube seams about 3-4 inches.

So I talked to one of the club members and he superglued the seam close. The girls could only handle one launch, too hot, too sunny, no place to sit, and hunger started to set in.

Now for the questions... Will this super glue hold for awhile? 1 or 2 more launches? Since the other 2 almost cracked open are they prone to open up completely the next time we launch? What to use to re-enforce the tube bodies? I used 3 sheets of wadding, was that too much?

thanks,
 
Welcome to the forum. First of all, I am not a expert like some rocketeers here on this forum. But I will give you my opinions. If you can post pictures that would help. Also, rockets will get worn and torn from the stresses of flight.

Fins: Balsa fins are very susceptible to dings, especially when landing on a hard surface. There are techniques to strengthen fins, papering the fins and using super glue. Look through the techniques section here on TRF.

As for the paint being cracked. On the one you stated "where the top of motor is" I am guessing that you mean where the ejection gases exit the motor casing. I would guesstamate that was caused by the hot gases, or stress at the motor block. On rockets where the diameter is approx. the same as the Dia. of the motor, you will get bubbling of the paint (or at least I do, on my ALPHA's) where the gases heat up the inside of the body tube after several flights.

I can't guess at the body tube that cracked open along the seam, or what is generally called the spiral. Some
rocketeers will fill the seam/spiral with different substances (again can be found in the technique section) to eliminate them and give the tube a smooth finish.

As far a the super glue, you should be fine to launch again. I am sure others will offer opinions & advice
 
Last edited:
Hi All,

Just found this forum and I have a couple of questions.
I bought for 3 Estes Wizard rocket kits for my 3 daughters (ages 8, twins 4). We built all 3 a few months back and had our first launch 2 days ago (Saturday). We weren't really prepared for what to bring other than rockets, motors and wadding. After I got the wadding and A8-3 motors in I had each of the girls have it inspected by the rocket inspector. A few adjustments with adding a little tape to the motors and nose cones to snug it up a bit better (they were just sliding off). The girls each got to slam the launch button after the countdown. Watched each fly into the air. 2 of the 3 had good timing for the cones and streamer to pop off... the 3rd popped a bit to early.
So we went to go and grab them off the ground, all three had slight damage to the fins, landing on the concrete runway. All 3 had some damage to the body tubes. 2 cracked the paint along the seam close to where the top of motor. 1 was actually cracked open along the tube seams about 3-4 inches.
So I talked to one of the club members and he superglued the seam close. The girls could only handle one launch, too hot, too sunny, no place to sit, and hunger started to set in.
Now for the questions... Will this super glue hold for awhile? 1 or 2 more launches? Since the other 2 almost cracked open are they prone to open up completely the next time we launch? What to use to re-enforce the tube bodies? I used 3 sheets of wadding, was that too much?

thanks,

BT-20 and BT-50 tubes are easily crimped and can buckle down the seams, usually over the top of the fins.
The Wizard is a minimum diameter model and the ejection charge can heat and bubble the paint, again right above the engine block.

The super glue will hold for a while, maybe a couple of months. It can become brittle over time.

You'll see less damage if you launch and recover on a grass field.
The Wizard has streamer recovery and trailing fins. A small parachute would set it down softer.

You mentioned the third Wizard ejected early. Rocket engine delays can be a little different, even on three from the same package.
When I fly a three engine cluster you can hear the separate Pop - pop - pop of the ejections.

Wadding is usually 1 1/2 times the tube diameter.
You can glue and wrap some card stock around the split body tubes. It won't b pretty but you can fly again.

We all have damage on our models after a few flights. It all gets better the more you build and fly.
 
Thanks for the replys... I'll get some pictures up of the damage when I get home. The damage to fins I have no problems with. I know it was gonna get dinged to those parts. I am more worried about the rocket blowing up in the next launches and it will look like a streamer coming down. I didn't think that the tubes would break apart like that.

I will switch to a 6" parachute the next time we launch these.
 
Here are the pics... The orange one suffered the most damage where the tube opened up at the seams. You can see where the super glue was applied. The other 2 show where the cracks happened but did not open up. Fin damages are at the corners, not too bad.









 
Sorry about the damage... Gotta say, I like the paint schemes you came up with... They look a lot better than the current stock appearance of the rocket. Personally, I built one back "in the day" when they were white and dark purple with black markings. Again, that scheme looks a lot better than the current version.
 
Yeah, streamer recovery and concrete are hard on rockets. The wizard was my first rocket back in about 1975..
 
Sorry about the damage... Gotta say, I like the paint schemes you came up with... They look a lot better than the current stock appearance of the rocket. Personally, I built one back "in the day" when they were white and dark purple with black markings. Again, that scheme looks a lot better than the current version.

Thanks, but it was the girls who came up with the colors... I had my wife take the kids to joanns or micheals and they chose the paint/colors they wanted... each could choose up to 2 colors. Bright Orange was one of the 4 year old and the pink/Silver was the other 4 year old. The 8 year old came up with the strips she wanted on there. I painted them how they wanted it.
 
... A few adjustments with adding a little tape to the motors and nose cones to snug it up a bit better (they were just sliding off).
You put too much tape on the nose cones and possibly too much tightly packed wadding. It may be possible that the tubes could have been slightly crushed during shipping from the factory and created a weak spot, but your consistent results here in the three rockets suggest they were all prepared in such a way to make the ejection gas pressure build up too much in the tube. the wadding should be very loosely packed, the nose cone should slip right out, if you tug on the engine and the nose cone, the cone should come off easily while the engine friction fit stays tight. repairing the cardboard tube is fairly easy, from simple masking tape, super glue, paper over white glue, just a shame to cover up those nice paint jobs, but you can touch them up later if you want.
 
You put too much tape on the nose cones and possibly too much tightly packed wadding. It may be possible that the tubes could have been slightly crushed during shipping from the factory and created a weak spot, but your consistent results here in the three rockets suggest they were all prepared in such a way to make the ejection gas pressure build up too much in the tube. the wadding should be very loosely packed, the nose cone should slip right out, if you tug on the engine and the nose cone, the cone should come off easily while the engine friction fit stays tight. repairing the cardboard tube is fairly easy, from simple masking tape, super glue, paper over white glue, just a shame to cover up those nice paint jobs, but you can touch them up later if you want.

Yah that what I thought it was. It was the inspector who added the tape to the nosecones, so I thought he would have known what he was doing. I wasn't sure how to pack the wadding. I crumbled it up and pushed 3 down the tube...
 
Yah that what I thought it was. It was the inspector who added the tape to the nosecones, so I thought he would have known what he was doing. I wasn't sure how to pack the wadding. I crumbled it up and pushed 3 down the tube...

The first few times you use wadding you may not be successful protecting the chute or streamer.

Here's some tips:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2013/12/wadding-tips.html
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2014/11/wadding-wrap-tip.html
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2015/01/crepe-wadding-update.html

Fred Schector had some great advice for packing wadding in smaller models.
Put the crumpled wadding into the tube, put your mouth over the top end of the tube.
Blow the wadding down inside the model. You'll feel it hit the engine block ring with a "thock".
Done!
 
The damage is consistent around the 4" mark. This is just above the motor block, the ring you glued in to prevent the motor from going straight through the tube and flying off on its own. Behind that, the tube is reinforced by the aforementioned motor block and the motor itself. So I'd say the damage is indeed due to a hard landing on concrete.

It's hard to say whether the nose cone was on too tight as a result of the tape. If an experienced flier on site checked the rockets and felt the tape was necessary to prevent the nose cones from falling out too easily, I'm not going to contradict him as I can't check the fit in person. But the symptom of damage from that cause would probably be the nose cone either failing to eject at all, in which case the rockets would be in a lot worse condition than that; or the nose cone ejecting too fast, bouncing back, hitting the front of the body and causing a dent. And the symptom of too much wadding packed in too tightly would be that the ejection charge would be unable to move the wadding, so the streamer wouldn't deploy and again the rocket would be in a lot worse condition.

I wouldn't trust glue alone to cover those crimps for long. Cut out a small piece of paper, glue that over the seam, dribble some superglue over it to reinforce it, then paint it.

The A8-3 is almost certain to eject the streamer too soon, unless your daughters made a very poor job of building the rockets and they are extremely overweight. This is unlikely. So you would probably be better with A8-5's. Or you can knock the clay nozzles out of the spent A8-3's and use them as adaptors. The Wizard will fly very nicely on an A3-4T or A10-3T, and the 13mm motor is a tight fit into an empty 18mm case. And you get four 13mm A3-4T's in a pack for the same price as three 18mm A8-3's or A8-5's.
 
The A8-3 is almost certain to eject the streamer too soon, unless your daughters made a very poor job of building the rockets and they are extremely overweight. This is unlikely. So you would probably be better with A8-5's. Or you can knock the clay nozzles out of the spent A8-3's and use them as adaptors. The Wizard will fly very nicely on an A3-4T or A10-3T, and the 13mm motor is a tight fit into an empty 18mm case. And you get four 13mm A3-4T's in a pack for the same price as three 18mm A8-3's or A8-5's.

Too bad I already tossed the A8-3 into the trash Saturday... Today is garbage pickup...:facepalm: Good to know this is repairable. I'll glue on the paper to reinforce the damage done. Is a 1/4" or 1/2" strip enough? Will this change how the rockets fly? heavy on one side... Should I add a bit of balance to opposite side?
 
It would involve removing the shock cord, but you could also fix them by getting some glue down inside at the right level and sliding a coupler in. Support it from the inside and the paint jobs will just have small battle scars.
 
I think you are right, if the streamer actually deployed, then the nose cone and wadding were not too tight. it was probably the hard surface landing that over-stressed the tube along the seam. the Wizard kits came with a yellow spacer tube that you used to push the engine thrust ring into position, that would be an ideal part for an internal repair, i.e. A tube coupler mentioned above, if you still had them.
 
Last edited:
Too bad I already tossed the A8-3 into the trash Saturday... Today is garbage pickup...:facepalm: Good to know this is repairable. I'll glue on the paper to reinforce the damage done. Is a 1/4" or 1/2" strip enough? Will this change how the rockets fly? heavy on one side... Should I add a bit of balance to opposite side?

I would do a full wrap just to help spread the load better. A small piece of paper to go around the full circumference of the tube glued on will be great. I agree that an A8-5 would be a good choice but it should still fly fine on standard A8-3s.
 
I think you are right, if the streamer actually deployed, then the nose cone and wadding were not too tight. it was probably the hard surface landing that over-stressed the tube along the seam. the Wizard kits came with a yellow spacer tube that you used to push the engine thrust ring into position, that would be an ideal part for an internal repair, i.e. A tube coupler mentioned above, if you still had them.
Luckily I kept the tubes to push the ring up into the body. Removing the shock cord will be way easier than repainting.
 
I would do a full wrap just to help spread the load better. A small piece of paper to go around the full circumference of the tube glued on will be great. I agree that an A8-5 would be a good choice but it should still fly fine on standard A8-3s.

I had initially bought a set of A8-3s, B4-4s and B6-4s. That was the progression to launch throughout the day. Maybe I'll save those B motors for the rockets I just bought from the Estes Sale.
 
I was reading somewhere, about the streamer used to be twice as long as the the current version. Is there a way to know what a good length streamer should be for safe recovery?
 
Last edited:
Ah, the Estes Wizard. So many fond memories..... so many times I had to build them. Great starter rocket to get into the hobby. I hope they had fun at the launches, and enjoy many more.

I know it's a bit off on a tangent, but Estes has a killer set of sales going on right now at their website. 75% off or better on some great rockets. If you think you might stick with the hobby, keep a watch on their website around major holidays for similar sales. I'd highly recommend the Cosmic Explorer, Phoenix Bird, or Stratocruiser as next kits to pick up. They're all easy builds, look impressive, and will have much better longevity and recovery percentages than the venerable Wizard. All at $5-$6 each on sale right now. I'd also recommend staying away from the Flutter-By. Easy to lose half of it, and lots of busted fins. Causes unhappy children.
 
Ah, the Estes Wizard. So many fond memories..... so many times I had to build them. Great starter rocket to get into the hobby. I hope they had fun at the launches, and enjoy many more.

I know it's a bit off on a tangent, but Estes has a killer set of sales going on right now at their website. 75% off or better on some great rockets. If you think you might stick with the hobby, keep a watch on their website around major holidays for similar sales. I'd highly recommend the Cosmic Explorer, Phoenix Bird, or Stratocruiser as next kits to pick up. They're all easy builds, look impressive, and will have much better longevity and recovery percentages than the venerable Wizard. All at $5-$6 each on sale right now. I'd also recommend staying away from the Flutter-By. Easy to lose half of it, and lots of busted fins. Causes unhappy children.
When I joined this forum Monday, I saw a post about the Estes Sale.
I bought this stuff:
ItemSkuQtySubtotal
003024 - Phoenix Bird™0030241 $6.19
003026 - Photon Probe™0030261 $5.99
002421 - Cosmic Explorer™0024213 $13.47
002262 - 6 in. Printed Parachute0022623 $7.47

Should arrive Monday.
 
Concur with really nice paint job, especially like the "braided" look. Those gals have talent!
A10-3T is a nice engine for this bird with the adapter. Unless you have a really big field, be prepared to say Sayonara to your rockets if you go with B or C engines.
Concur with streamer calculator recommendation. For a given WIDTH streamer, there is an optimum length. If you go beyond that, you get VERY little increased drag (translated, it doesn't slow the rocket down much more) AND you have a lot tighter packing into the rocket (translated, may get STUCK!)
Here is the trick to save your fins, even when landing on concrete (not perfect, but definitely helps.)
Put the fins on BACKWARDS! Put them on swept forwards instead of backwards. When the rocket lands and hits terra firma (in your case, terra megafirma) the first thing that will impact the ground with fins like this will be the butt of the engine, NOT the fins.
Remember, use the same root edge to attach the fins to the body, just switch direction 180. This keeps the fin grain direction correct. If you try to rotate the fins otherwise, your fin grain is likely to be parallel to the long axis of the rocket, and fins will snap off easily.
On rockets with marginal stability to begin with, you may want to be careful, but on a rocket like this, shouldn't be a problem.
Plus I think forward swept fins are cool.
Here's a pic with the modification:Wizard 01.jpg
To maximize stability, when I invert the fins like this, I usually put the aft (tail) end of the fin even with the aft (tail) end of the body tube, so the fins are as far back as I can get them.

Straight Trails!
 
Last edited:
Let me be the first to say DOWNLOAD THE CORRECTED COSMIC EXPLORER INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE ESTES WEBSITE!
See my Cosmic Disaster thread for more info. There a few others on the forum as well.
 
Last edited:
I'm just impressed that you flew Wizards three times on a hard surface and didn't knock any fins off. My hat is off to you, sir!
 
Back
Top