3D printed parts and fiberglass

JohnCoker · Jun 20, 2015

Has anyone tried fiberglassing a PLA or ABS 3D-printed part? I'd imagine that the rough surface would allow the epoxy to soak in, but am not sure.

If that worked, HPR parts could be built by printing a thin-wall part and then strengthening it with a couple of layers of fiberglass.

BLKKROW · Jun 20, 2015

JohnCoker said:
Has anyone tried fiberglassing a PLA or ABS 3D-printed part? I'd imagine that the rough surface would allow the epoxy to soak in, but am not sure.

If that worked, HPR parts could be built by printing a thin-wall part and then strengthening it with a couple of layers of fiberglass.

I have thought about doing this myself. I would imagine if you would print at a 0.2mm or 0.3mm layer height you would have good adhesion. However, I would use PLA and not ABS as ABS is prone to shattering if dropped from height.

JohnCoker · Jun 20, 2015

I also found this stuff when googling. It would be for surface finishing, though, not strength.
High-Performance Print Coating (Amazon)

BLKKROW · Jun 21, 2015

If you are interested I can print you a sample of something if you wanted to fiberglass/carbon fiber it?

JohnCoker · Jun 21, 2015

BLKKROW said:
If you are interested I can print you a sample of something if you wanted to fiberglass/carbon fiber it?

How about a few flat "coupons"? I've attached a simple shape (120 x 30 x 3mm) that takes about 5cm³: View attachment Coupon.stl

Here's the part on Shapeways.

I was considering printing the nose and tail for my RS-2U model, but that's a large volume so I want to verify the functionality first.

BLKKROW · Jun 21, 2015

JohnCoker said:
How about a few flat "coupons"? I've attached a simple shape (120 x 30 x 3mm) that takes about 5cm³: View attachment 265973

Here's the part on Shapeways.

I was considering printing the nose and tail for my RS-2U model, but that's a large volume so I want to verify the functionality first.

I can print that out for you in the next few days. I will fillet the edges on the bottom to help with printing.

Go ahead and PM me your address.

jderimig · Jun 21, 2015

JohnCoker;1469973 I was considering printing the nose and tail for my [URL="https://jcrocket.com/rs-2u.shtml" said:
RS-2U model[/URL], but that's a large volume so I want to verify the functionality first.

I do not think you would even need to FG the printed parts. For a nose and tail they should be pretty strong as printed. A fin yes, but a part that can be built with alot of volume and internal honeycomb infil, should be way strong enough.

BLKKROW · Jun 21, 2015

John,

What percentage of infill would you prefer something heavy like 60%-70%, or the more typical 30%-40%.

JohnCoker · Jun 21, 2015

BLKKROW said:
What percentage of infill would you prefer something heavy like 60%-70%, or the more typical 30%-40%.

I don't have an opinion. (My only experience of 3D printing is through Shapeways.)

jderimig · Jun 21, 2015

BLKKROW said:
John,

What percentage of infill would you prefer something heavy like 60%-70%, or the more typical 30%-40%.

I am thinking 40% tops.

jqavins · Jun 22, 2015

If it should turn out that the resin or epoxy fails to adhere to the printed part, you could still use the print as a form then break it out leaving an all FG part for flight. For tubes and fins there would be much point in that, but for complex shapes it could be great to have 3d printed forms.

vcp · Jun 23, 2015

JohnCoker said:
I also found this stuff when googling. It would be for surface finishing, though, not strength.
High-Performance Print Coating (Amazon)

I have some of that. Tried it on one part and wasn't impressed but it was probably me. It didn't level like I'd hoped, and stayed tacky for >6 hours. I had thought I measured carefully by weight but I probably fat-fingered it. For the life of me I can't find/remember the part I coated. I will give it a shot again soon though.

tab28682 · Jun 30, 2015

I have fiberglassed a number of ABS printed parts for strength and improved final finishing when used in a display model. Typically, these were thin wing and tail sections.

Epoxy resin is not optimal for adhesion to ABS plastic, even if the ABS has been sanded and given some tooth.

What worked best for the thin ABS parts I was working with was to "glass" the parts with 1 or 2 oz glass cloth and thin CA glue. This bonds permanently with well sanded ABS and the glass cloth. Added measurable strength.

An additional advantage is that the layer of glass prevents solvents from getting to the ABS and bringing build layer marks and joints and such back into view, "printing" back to the finished surface over time.

This technique is not designed to add lots of composite strength for a high power rocket, but could work well if thoughtfully used on low and mid power models.

Another useful way of adding strength to thin ABS parts is to grow a channel in a thin part for a carbon fiber shape. After the grow, CA the carbon fiber spar into the part. Instant structural strength.

JohnCoker · Jun 30, 2015

I have some samples to test with now, so I'm planning to try it.

Tom, you mention sanding the parts; is there any other prep such as cleaning with soap and water or alcohol to remove manufacturing residue?

BLKKROW · Jul 1, 2015

JohnCoker said:
I have some samples to test with now, so I'm planning to try it.

Tom, you mention sanding the parts; is there any other prep such as cleaning with soap and water or alcohol to remove manufacturing residue?

The only oil that would reside from manufacturing would be oil from my hands or yours.

JohnCoker · Aug 11, 2015

Well, it does indeed work. Nylon works great, without any preparation and PLA works well if sanded first.

[video]https://youtu.be/g7cVa0K_txM[/video]

stantonjtroy · Aug 11, 2015

tab28682 said:
I have fiberglassed a number of ABS printed parts for strength and improved final finishing when used in a display model. Typically, these were thin wing and tail sections.

Epoxy resin is not optimal for adhesion to ABS plastic, even if the ABS has been sanded and given some tooth.

What worked best for the thin ABS parts I was working with was to "glass" the parts with 1 or 2 oz glass cloth and thin CA glue. This bonds permanently with well sanded ABS and the glass cloth. Added measurable strength.

An additional advantage is that the layer of glass prevents solvents from getting to the ABS and bringing build layer marks and joints and such back into view, "printing" back to the finished surface over time.

This technique is not designed to add lots of composite strength for a high power rocket, but could work well if thoughtfully used on low and mid power models.

Another useful way of adding strength to thin ABS parts is to grow a channel in a thin part for a carbon fiber shape. After the grow, CA the carbon fiber spar into the part. Instant structural strength.

I was curious about the adhesion. In my experience epoxies don't bond great to ABS, though there are some additives that will enhance the bond. I was thinking Vinylester but I like the notion of CA. I've glassed with CA in the past and it's proven good.

stantonjtroy · Aug 11, 2015

JohnCoker said:
Well, it does indeed work. Nylon works great, without any preparation and PLA works well if sanded first.

[video]https://youtu.be/g7cVa0K_txM[/video]

Thanks for sharing this John, Great information.

BLKKROW · Aug 11, 2015

Great information John!

KenRico · Aug 11, 2015

With Shockwave rocketry no longer shipping , Frywrxz Dave and I were hoping to get a plug for a 2.6 VK Nose cone we could do a Coker Mold off of .

Since the shape is mathematically derived, seems like a natural for a 3D printer.

Kenny

JohnCoker · Aug 11, 2015

KenRico said:
With Shockwave rocketry no longer shipping , Frywrxz Dave and I were hoping to get a plug for a 2.6 VK Nose cone we could do a Coker Mold off of .

Yeah, but I think you can just finish the part with primer, no need to fiberglass it.

What I was considering was 3D printing a part slightly undersized and then skinning it with fiberglass to give a hard surface. I.e., an upgrade to 'glassed foam parts.

blastzone · Jul 27, 2023

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but came across it after doing some fiberglassing of large pla parts and figured i'd see how other folks were or weren't having luck with it. My goal here is a large fin. The 2 most common techniques for large fins I'm familiar with are just using plywood (easy but heavy) or building a frame with spars and filling that with foam and fiberglassing over (more work, but lighter). I'm basically using the latter approach, but with a pla core instead of spar/foam. First fin has been glassed with 3 layers of 4oz glass on each side and vacuum bagged. Surface prep of the PLA was to sand and then clean with acetone. 2nd picture below is fresh out of the vacuum bag with edges partially trimmed. I am happy with the stiffness and resilience observed so far. I'm going to go over the edges with some fiberglass to improve strength. Will be using this on a 'big fat' rocket, 11" airframe, low and slow flights. Nothing close to supersonic or high performance.

3D printed parts and fiberglass

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