Missile Works RTx?

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
So.... Just between us... In very simple terms, what are the differences between the Standard RTx version and the Navigator RTx version?
I plan on using my existing LCD terminal in the 3D printed case to walk to the rocket (hopefully).

Adrian

Locating your rocket requires using the RTx/GPS "Standard" System in tandem with your smart phone, tablet, or handheld GPS system for navigation to the landing area. GPS coordinate data is provided in (4) unique formats so there's no fumbling when transposing data into a 3rd party app or your handheld GPS.

Location is transmitted from rocket "through" the base, to some other unit [listed above] that shows you the location on Google earth map or handheld GPS. Done through blue tooth or cable connection.
There is NO GPS in the standard base unit.


Navigator version HAS a GPS in base unit. You must have a GPS in the base, so IT knows where YOU are.
This way it can "tell" you how far[distance] and the compass headings to your landing point.
The right/left/straight ahead arrows are then activated, & you can walk/drive to destination.
This version is the one that allows users with previous RF [falcon tracker] experience, to make a seamless transition to GPS .

Even days after flying, you can go back and find your rocket with the "Navigator" system. It stores landing location and will steer you to your rocket with the built in GPS in base.

To summarize:
Standard version no GPS in base. It transmits data to something else that tells you where rocket is. Or you put LAT/LONG manually into something else.

Navigator GPS in base. Stand alone version, takes you to rocket. [you will need LCD screen]

This is my caveman explanation, which I think is what you are looking for.

The actual "how to" is in the quick start guide, I just finished with the"other" JIM.:smile:

You will find it very easy to use. I have just handed the base to several others, after putting the correct screen on & within minutes they figured it out and went out to find a rocket with no further help from me. Instead of following the "loudest" beeps [RF tracking] you just let the "magic" arrows point you in the right direction.
 
Last edited:
At long last... we are FINALLY gonna pull the trigger on this.:blush:

We've been bench/beta-testing with abandon, and we *think* we're out of the woods. In short, we've been trying to understand a sometimes inconsistency with memory persistence. With the latest modifications to stabilize the Rocket Unit GPS epoch recording, we think we understand the gotcha's. I will elaborate in detail down the road here as the current deployment strategy is to release the RTx/GPS system into an "Extended Beta Test".

So what does that mean, exactly?
Here's an easy way to consider things...

If you're a flyer that only cares about LOCATING your rocket and does not care about uploading GPS Epoch data into mDACS, then RTx is ready for you, and you are ready for RTx. The memory issues we've been hard at work resolving apply ONLY to local flash-written data that gets dumped out later post-flight. The navigational and recovery aspects of the system are well vetted, and as CJ has experienced, a simple hand-off with the LCD in-hand and recovery is a "cake-walk" (or ride/drive).

-OR-

If you're a flyer that cares about LOCATING and UPLOADING GPS Epoch data into mDACS for inspection and Google Earth overlays, then RTx is ready for you to participate in an Expanded Beta Test release. This means we believe we understand and have mitigated the memory issues we've been hard at work resolving, but you acknowledge that we're expanding our test base to ensure the issue has been licked. As described above, the navigational and recovery aspects of the system are well vetted and we need more flyers to see how their recording reliability plays out.

There's a small collection of documentation, web cart, and fabrication items to complete, and then it's game on. As discussed here, first right of refusal will be offered up to all pre-purchasers, then it's on to general release.

Many thanks to everyone for your patience during this project.
You're gonna start hearing from me, really...:eyeroll:
 
Last edited:
At long last... we are FINALLY gonna pull the trigger on this.:blush:



So what does that mean, exactly?
Here's an easy way to consider things...

If you're a flyer that only cares about LOCATING your rocket and does not care about uploading GPS Epoch data into mDACS, then RTx is ready for you, and you are ready for RTx. The memory issues we've been hard at work resolving apply ONLY to local flash-written data that gets dumped out later post-flight. The navigational and recovery aspects of the system are well vetted, and as CJ has experienced, a simple hand-off with the LCD in-hand and recovery is a "cake-walk" (or ride/drive).
You're gonna start hearing from me, really...:eyeroll:

This is me... I don't even hook up the RRC3 to the computer to look at the data, much less save it to something... I just fly and (hopefully) recover.

Adrian
 
Locating your rocket requires using the RTx/GPS "Standard" System in tandem with your smart phone, tablet, or handheld GPS system for navigation to the landing area. GPS coordinate data is provided in (4) unique formats so there's no fumbling when transposing data into a 3rd party app or your handheld GPS.

Location is transmitted from rocket "through" the base, to some other unit [listed above] that shows you the location on Google earth map or handheld GPS. Done through blue tooth or cable connection.
There is NO GPS in the standard base unit.


Navigator version HAS a GPS in base unit. You must have a GPS in the base, so IT knows where YOU are.
This way it can "tell" you how far[distance] and the compass headings to your landing point.
The right/left/straight ahead arrows are then activated, & you can walk/drive to destination.
This version is the one that allows users with previous RF [falcon tracker] experience, to make a seamless transition to GPS .

Even days after flying, you can go back and find your rocket with the "Navigator" system. It stores landing location and will steer you to your rocket with the built in GPS in base.

To summarize:
Standard version no GPS in base. It transmits data to something else that tells you where rocket is. Or you put LAT/LONG manually into something else.

Navigator GPS in base. Stand alone version, takes you to rocket. [you will need LCD screen]

This is my caveman explanation, which I think is what you are looking for.

The actual "how to" is in the quick start guide, I just finished with the"other" JIM.:smile:

You will find it very easy to use. I have just handed the base to several others, after putting the correct screen on & within minutes they figured it out and went out to find a rocket with no further help from me. Instead of following the "loudest" beeps [RF tracking] you just let the "magic" arrows point you in the right direction.

That was EXACTLY what I was wanting. (insert caveman grunting here...)

Adrian
 
Sounds like a lot of options are available to please the, "I just want to find it and/or gimme all the data people."
My attitude is once you find it, you can download whatever you want from the onboard devices. The key is really getting the "stuff" back. Receiving a bunch of ancillary data in real time just isn't helpful or necessary unless one doesn't expect
to get the rocket/project back. To me, ancillary data is anything other than position and altitude. Software can take that and display that essential recovery information so one can find the rocket. Stuff like "max Gees", "speed" or whathaveyou
is not immediately essential to get it back. Kurt
 
Just a quick note to all.

The web cart has had significant updates with the latest accessory antenna, cases, and cables for all the optional goodness we're rolling out with the RTx System. The details on the new v1.60 RRC3 firmware and mDACS update is also forthcoming on the web site as well. This evening I'm doing a final proof on all the documentation and I'll be posting new versions of ALL Users Manuals, including the long awaited and legendary "CJ's Quick Start Guide for RTx/GPS".

CJ being the excellent typist he is *really* went to town on this effort creating an 8 page guide to all the necessary do's and dont's of GPS telemetry and navigation. It's a great read and very informative. If you're at all concerned about using this contraption, fear not. It's like CJ is right there next to you giving you his sage advice...

I've also just sent out invites to the first 10 pre-purchasers to get their RTx Systems configured and delivered.

More when I have it...
 
Can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Really wishing I had pre ordered when they were available...
 
Jim, one question about the base unit, does it come with an antenna? Or will I have to order one separately?
 
Yes.... from the rather lengthy "Description":

Each Standard System is furnished with our standard RPSMA Base Antenna. The only additional antenna you'll require would be when you choose the RPSMA Rocket Unit option that utilizes a high-performance external antenna system. The antenna we recommend for this application is our flexible 900MHz Bulkhead Mounting Antenna System.

Here's what is furnished:
https://www.missileworks.com/store/...-WRC+-RTx-Systems/p/67977442/category=5760500
 
Yes.... from the rather lengthy "Description":

Each Standard System is furnished with our standard RPSMA Base Antenna. The only additional antenna you'll require would be when you choose the RPSMA Rocket Unit option that utilizes a high-performance external antenna system. The antenna we recommend for this application is our flexible 900MHz Bulkhead Mounting Antenna System.

Here's what is furnished:
https://www.missileworks.com/store/...-WRC+-RTx-Systems/p/67977442/category=5760500

Ok thanks. I must have missed that in the 'lengthy description'. I just didn't want to get one of these only to find it I need ANOTHER antenna for it.
 
As some of you may know, Elaine and I have been beta testing the Missile Works RTx. We started our beta testing late last year. In that time span, we have flown over 20 beta flights and performed countless desktop tests verifying not only the RTx hardware but also the upgraded mDACs support software.

- How did we tested - In Elaine's rockets, the rocket RTx was mounted on a board and was placed in the nose cone in the same method as described in Crazy Jim's RTx getting started guide. For my rockets, the RTx was mounted on a board, enclosed in a 38 mm fiber glass air frame tube and attached/taped to the booster shock cord. In all of the flights, the rocket RTx performed as expected.

- Locating the rocket - Finding the rocket can't be easier then looking at the base, following the directional arrows and watching the distance to the rocket decrease. In all of our tests flights, we never lost a rocket. We also tested the Navigate feature which allows you to find the rocket after you've turned the base off and back on. This is useful for what ever reason you are not immediately available to go and find the rocket.

- GPS data. As Jim has noted, we had encountered problems with the saving and retrieving of flight GPS data from the rocket RTx. Note: This doesn't affect locating the rocket with the base RTx. Based on our most recent testing, I believe Jim has solved most if not all of these problems. Our last beta testing was conducted at URRF last month. Below is Google Earth plot of the retrieved rocket RTx GPS data for several of our flights.

URRF 2016 RTx Beta Test Flights.jpg

We were able to include the rocket RTx in the rocket with an AIM Xtra. Below is the Google Earth plot of the GPS data from the AIM Xtra and rocket RTx. The gold flight and pink ground tracks are the RTx and the red flight and yellow ground track is the AIM Xtra. The tracks overlay almost exactly. To locate the rocket, we entered the RTx's last GPS coordinates into a Garmin hand held. When we got to where the rocket was, the entered Garmin coordinates were within 10' of the rocket. Can't get better than that.

URRF 2016 RTx Aim Xtra.jpg

Elaine and I will be at the MDRA sod farm launch on Sunday the 17th doing more testing on the latest firmware upgrades. We are planning on 4 test flights with experimental Ks. Please feel free to stop by and have look. We'll do our best to answer any of your questions.

Ben and Elaine Russell
 
The recent posts and activities have made my day, maybe even week or month. Can't say I've been this excited over a new rocket product release for a long time...maybe ever. So happy to see we're getting really close to using the production versions....can't wait!

-Eric-
 
Just a quick note to all that I have completed the web site update of all the latest documentation and the new v1.60 mDACS install. This release supports the new RTx/GPS System along with a collection of other improvements, so head over to https://www.missileworks.com/downloads/ to grab the latest software.

I'm working up the RRC3 v1.60 firmware update details as well, and I'll post up the enhancement list with reflash details. As of today, we are officially releasing the new v1.60 firmware with all new RRC3 fulfillments.
 
As some of you may know, Elaine and I have been beta testing the Missile Works RTx. We started our beta testing late last year. In that time span, we have flown over 20 beta flights and performed countless desktop tests verifying not only the RTx hardware but also the upgraded mDACs support software.

- How did we tested - In Elaine's rockets, the rocket RTx was mounted on a board and was placed in the nose cone in the same method as described in Crazy Jim's RTx getting started guide. For my rockets, the RTx was mounted on a board, enclosed in a 38 mm fiber glass air frame tube and attached/taped to the booster shock cord. In all of the flights, the rocket RTx performed as expected.

- Locating the rocket - Finding the rocket can't be easier then looking at the base, following the directional arrows and watching the distance to the rocket decrease. In all of our tests flights, we never lost a rocket. We also tested the Navigate feature which allows you to find the rocket after you've turned the base off and back on. This is useful for what ever reason you are not immediately available to go and find the rocket.

- GPS data. As Jim has noted, we had encountered problems with the saving and retrieving of flight GPS data from the rocket RTx. Note: This doesn't affect locating the rocket with the base RTx. Based on our most recent testing, I believe Jim has solved most if not all of these problems. Our last beta testing was conducted at URRF last month. Below is Google Earth plot of the retrieved rocket RTx GPS data for several of our flights.

View attachment 296853

We were able to include the rocket RTx in the rocket with an AIM Xtra. Below is the Google Earth plot of the GPS data from the AIM Xtra and rocket RTx. The gold flight and pink ground tracks are the RTx and the red flight and yellow ground track is the AIM Xtra. The tracks overlay almost exactly. To locate the rocket, we entered the RTx's last GPS coordinates into a Garmin hand held. When we got to where the rocket was, the entered Garmin coordinates were within 10' of the rocket. Can't get better than that.

View attachment 296852

Elaine and I will be at the MDRA sod farm launch on Sunday the 17th doing more testing on the latest firmware upgrades. We are planning on 4 test flights with experimental Ks. Please feel free to stop by and have look. We'll do our best to answer any of your questions.

Ben and Elaine Russell

Last week Elaine and I received the latest firmware updates for RTx and were able to continue our flight testing of the RTx's storing of epoch flight data at the MDRA Sod from launch on Sunday the 17th. We conducted 3 test flights all of which were a complete success.

The flights below in Red/Yellow are of my Competitor 4 on a research J400. The Purple flight is Elaine's Interceptor on a CTI J280.

Sod Farm July 2016 RTx Test Flights.jpg

Ben and Elaine
 
Ok. I got the email and ordered my RTx system. I have a question on the battery. Quick start guide suggest a 1S 750mAh lipo. Since I know nothing about Lipos, what C rating is needed. The Turnigy nano-tech appear to come in a 35C-70C version. Is this the suggested battery? Can someone provide a link to a good battery? Thanks!
 
Ok. I got the email and ordered my RTx system. I have a question on the battery. Quick start guide suggest a 1S 750mAh lipo. Since I know nothing about Lipos, what C rating is needed. The Turnigy nano-tech appear to come in a 35C-70C version. Is this the suggested battery? Can someone provide a link to a good battery? Thanks!

That one is great battery for it: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=44082

That's what I used in my last x-bee based tracker and I just picked up a few more for my RTx system. I think I have 8 of these now. I can fly all weekend without worrying about battery charging. You'll want a good charger. I have an older iMAX that's no longer made - not sure what people recommend now days. I would recommend searching for and looking at one of the many, many threads about LiPos here on the forums - many options have been shared.

-brant
 
Its Christmas in July, my RTx System arrived today.

Rtx_pict.jpg

Thanks Jim.
 
Last edited:
Worked out all the details Monday and mine is shipping this week.
 
I must be unlucky as I have heard nothing yet!

I just finished my configuration discussions with Jim yesterday, and I was fairly high up on the list based on time of order. I know it is not easy with a product as exciting as this one, but your patience will be rewarded. He is personally working with each customer to ensure that they get just the configuration that will suit their purpose. It is customer service at its finest from my perspective!

Cheers,
Michael
 
Next step folks is to fly it and report back. Once you walk right up to a rocket that you completely lost sight of the entire flight, you'll be royally hooked on flying this way. No more sweating out the recovery when you lose sight as you'll be able to tell by the telemetry the events occurred as planned. If you have a real time mapping solution, it will cue you which direction to look to see if you can get a visual on the main chute deployment. If you can't see it, so what! You'll know the main is out by the slowing of the descent rate and you can walk right up to the rocket. I've had that happen on seven flights in high flying small rockets. You can have a small rocket at altitude 3/4 mile away and not see it even with the chute out. Kurt
 
I got the base station put together this afternoon, it's a pretty quick build with all the 3D printed parts fitting well.

My redesigned 3D printed sleds for the RTx/RRC3 combination needs some refinement before I print the final version. I hope to have them on the printer this weekend.

Jim has been wonderful in getting my order out the door, I even shipped back my two RRC3's and had him flash the latest firmware. We have had a lot of email exchanges to help clarify exactly what I needed.

I hope to be flying the RTx at the next MDRA launch.
 
A quick question, can the base station GPS be reconfigured at a later date to add one or more rocket GPS units, or must it be done at the time of the initial order.
 
A quick question, can the base station GPS be reconfigured at a later date to add one or more rocket GPS units, or must it be done at the time of the initial order.

The base configuration, stays the same. When you order your first "set", a base unit & rocket unit , they come with matched frequency radio's. Each has a electronic serial #.

To add more rocket GPS units, send your serial # to Missileworks and new units will be matched to the base.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................

Correction on above:
The radios have matching "Network ID's", not frequencies. Folks only need to get this if they purchase from a dealer or acquire a system second hand as I log these ID's on a per customer basis.

.........................................................................................................................................................................................



The serial # will automatically show up on LCD screen on "start up" under settings. This [settings] is accessed by holding down the Pause button for 5 seconds, while turning power on .[base] Write it down.




...........................................................................................................................................................................................
Correction on above:

The procedure described above performs a settings "default", not the display of the Network ID. One must do the following to obtain the Network ID:

1. TAP the program/pause button (LCD needs to be attached) during the 5 second power up beep. This invokes the RTx Menu Mode.

2. From the RTx Menu screen, tap the program/pause button again to retrieve the Network ID from the radio module.

..................................................................................................................................................................................


Summarize: base always remains the same. Any new rockets GPS units will come matched to your base, after suppling your serial#.

If you have multiple rocket units, be sure to power down all, but the one flying!


Edit: Actually any Missileworks GPS Base or Rocket CAN be reconfigured, but under normal use.....there is no reason to change the base.You always match the rocket unit to the base.
 
Last edited:
Hum clear as .. Mud


At a later date..... when ordering a new rocket unit, it comes matched to the old base. No need to ever change base, just the new units.

Missile works keeps a log/record of all sales & who bought them. When you buy a new unit, they match it to your existing base.

Got it? If not ask the question another way...maybe I'm not getting what you are asking.
 
Last edited:
I was able to use a new RTx system last weekend at OROC's Summer Skies Launch in Brothers, OR. I ordered a new Navigator system with two rocket transmitter units (one wire whip and one RP-SMA), the bluetooth module and the case. I already had an LCD screen, so I just built that into this system. Here are my thoughts on the system and it's performance.

The Units all look very well built. They are a little larger than the old 900 MHz GPS units I built three years ago (Rocket Track), but I was still able to mount one to a small fiberglass sled with a 1S battery strapped to the back side and fit it into the nose cone of my 38mm MadCow Mini Screech.
WP_20160729_21_38_25_Pro.jpg
So, no problem with size there. This is my smallest dual deploy rocket so this makes me happy.The Screech does have a deep nose cone so if you're thinking of stuffing this into a 38mm rocket, check that you have room to fit a 30mm x 120mm rectangle into the space.

The 3D printed case had a few fit issues that I relayed back to Jim and all subsequent units shipped after this one have been adjusted and should fit the base units perfectly. Another change I made to the case is I drilled a small hole over the bluetooth module LED so I could tell when it has a lock (flashing vs solid).
WP_20160729_21_21_10_Pro.jpg
In my emails with Jim he mentioned that future cases may get some form of clear bezel over this light (I'm not making any promises for him). The hole works fine for me

Power for all my units is this battery: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=44082

From Friday through Sunday last week I flew the RTx system 7 times at Summer Skies. There were six flights with my wire whip antenna unit and one with the RP-SMA antenna unit. I used this antenna from Sparkfun: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9143
This is the same antenna I used on my previous system; although I understand that Jim has a very nice flexible antenna in his store.

Since I have the Navigator System and bluetooth, I used this opportunity to track my rockets with both the LCD screen and the Rocket Track app that I was using before written by Kevin Ruland (you can find a link to it in the Rocket Track thread referenced above). I really like the way this app shows your rocket location and tracks you to it. It is open source (I think) if anyone would like to keep making improvements to it. I tracked with the handheld base and my wyfe, the expert tracker, used the phone app (it's her phone and she's been doing it for three years now - no need to stir things up)

Once powered up, it takes a couple minutes for the rocket units to get GPS lock. Once a lock is established there is an audible notification from the base and you can see the appropriate coordinates on the base unit LCD. The base unit also transmits flawlessly and simultaneously to the phone app.

During flights, I experienced some connection loss between the transmitters and the base when the rocket reached apogee and was directly overhead - the connection re-established on descent. This mostly happened on flights over 6-7k AGL. Some of the issue with signal loss might be due to my nosecone design: all my larger fiberglass nosecones have 1/4" all-thread running down from the tip to secure the coupler cover. This runs parallel to the transmitter antennas. I'm going to modify a few of my nosecones to remove the all-thread and see how that improves overhead performance (I know it's a bad design for my nosecones if I'm putting antennas in there).

I also lost signal on most flights after the rocket lands. This is expected, especially with the rolling terrain.
BUT....the base unit remembers the final position of the rocket and where it landed and I never had any issues walking directly to any of my rockets. Also, as you approach the final resting place of the rocket it will reacquire the transmitter signal.

I had perfect concordance between the phone app and where the base unit was directing me to go.

The true test of this unit was realized with the flight of my Mongoose 54 on a CTI L1030 RL. Projected to fly just over 20k feet AGL, we lost visual after apogee and even with three spotters we never saw it land. The RTx system allowed me to walk right to the rocket where it landed about 4300 feet from the pad. You just go the directions that the base unit arrows point. I'm sold!
:handshake:

The rocket units record the flights and you can download them later through the mDACS software. The data can then be exported as KML files (for Google Earth), CSV, or simple text. Here are three of my flights mapped in Google Earth:
OROC SS2016 GPS flights.jpg
Green: 2.6" DX3 to ~3800 ft
Orange: Competitor 3 to ~13,100 ft
Red: Mongoose 54 to ~20,000 ft

I really like the system. It works as advertised.

I'm really looking forward to using the RTx system some more. It was pretty easy to set up and use. In most cases, I just wrapped the transmitter unit and battery in bubble wrap and shoved them into the rocket's nosecone. I'll create some better options for future flying, but it doesn't get much simpler than this. I also plan to test out tethering it to an RRC3 unit soon.

I think my only wish at this point is for a mute button for the audio notifications from the base. When you're out tromping through the field for 30-45 minutes, or sitting at the bench with the unit running, it would be nice to silence it for a spell. You can turn these sounds off through the mDACS software, but it would be nice to have a temporary mute. In talking to Jim it doesn't sound like this is possible on this version. One can hope.

One more note: When connecting the base unit to the mDACS software via bluetooth (which is the best way to do it if you have the unit securely housed in the case), the HC-06 BT module creates two COM ports on the computer when paired: one incoming and one outgoing. Connect mDACS to the outgoing COM port - on my computer it was the higher numbered port.

-brant
 
Back
Top