Warlock

Alright, this is more of a poll than anything else. Glass the airframe or leave it be....... Also, how low of a stability have you flown with one? FYI, this is my rebuild of one that I had a failed motor ejection on (I think it was the K2045 flight too)

Chris, first never use motor ejection I a v-max or a warp nine flight. They burn so fast and shutdown so abruptly that they tend to snuff the delay grain. Use an altimeter.

Considering the airframe a couple layers of 6 ounce glass after peeling the glassine layer from the tube would be a good idea.

Being this is a short and stubby rocket you probably can get away with a pretty low stability ratio- probably greater than .75-1 and you should be golden. Remember that most sims underestimate base drag and the effect of Cp so you need to tweak the sim to represent this.

I haven't had a chance to fly mine yet, so I can't really speak to the strength of the airframe and construction, but the whole reason I bought it was that it's big but light. So I built mine light with wood glue. Using that reasoning, no, I would not glass the airframe. Maybe you have different plans for yours and heavier construction would make sense.

Just build it with wood glue. No glass or epoxy necessary. Even with a 54mm mount that should be fine. The K2045 might kick it's tail though. So far a K740 is as adventurous as I've gotten (in a DoorKnob). Personally, I don't like flying vmax motors in something like this. I want big flames and lots of smoke with a 2-3 second burn.

I'm curious, how does the Warlock not shred on a K when using wood glue during construction? Is it because the higher drag design?

gerbs4me said:

I'm curious, how does the Warlock not shred on a K when using wood glue during construction? Is it because the higher drag design?

Click to expand...

Size, weight and drag are the key factors here Brent.

Are you coming out to the launch this Saturday? Hope to see you there!!

The CTI Pro54 K2045 develops a max thrust of 500 pounds. That's easy to distribute over a 7.5" airframe.

The issue I foresee as a potential problem would be fin flutter. The rocket will hit Mach 0.85 on this motor so you are in the transonic regime where flutter can be an issue, and as the high thrust motor will overcome the high drag to push the max-v quite high, I am concerned that fin flutter could rip the fins off the airframe because the fins are attached via the Fin-LOC method so they will flex the airframe at the attachment points unlike a conventional rigid fincan structure.

Bob

gerbs4me said:

I'm curious, how does the Warlock not shred on a K when using wood glue during construction? Is it because the higher drag design?

Click to expand...

Remember you're only gluing paper and wood together

I glassed my Warlock, I can't remember if it was one or two layers of 6 oz topped off with a layer of 3 oz for the body tube. Followed that up with a tip to tip on the fins of 6 oz and 3 oz. It has had many awesome flights on the Aerotech I284W motor and I'm planning on a J350W flight next time it goes to the field.

I also glassed my LOC Doorknob and added an avionics bay and a payload section. It has had several good flights on CTI 54mm 6XL L1030R and L805W motors. It weighs a ton, but still gets up about 4,500' at 550+mph.

I didn't do a build thread on it, but here is some pics. https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?49144-THE-ZOMBIE-APOCOLYPSE

The Warlock is sold stock with a 38mm mount, and even the most high-thrust and high-impulse 6-grain XL motors are not going to endanger the rocket. (So I've been told.) I've heard you can fly anything you can put in the hole that has a high enough velocity off the rail.

But it sounds like this particular rocket is not stock and has at least a 54mm mount, so maybe there are motors that could push it too fast for the stock building materials and construction techniques.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

The Warlock is sold stock with a 38mm mount, and even the most high-thrust and high-impulse 6-grain XL motors are not going to endanger the rocket. (So I've been told.) I've heard you can fly anything you can put in the hole that has a high enough velocity off the rail.

But it sounds like this particular rocket is not stock and has at least a 54mm mount, so maybe there are motors that could push it too fast for the stock building materials and construction techniques.

Click to expand...

Agreed. LOC does a good job stating the limitations of their rockets when built as stock.



The lighter WarlocK will stay below M = 0.8 using any 38 mm H, I or J motor and the heavier DoorKnob will stay below M = 0.8 under using any 54 mm H, I, J or K motor when build stock. My concern is flexing and weakening of the airframe around the fin slots when the velocity bumps up into the transonic range.

Bob

tbonerocketeer said:

Remember you're only gluing paper and wood together

Click to expand...

Good point....I may just have to buy a Warlock and give it a whirl.

Using a 54 mount & going to hammer it.....like I know you will.LOL

Glass it.

Bevel fins first, Glass them up to the bevel.
2 wraps 6oz on tubes.

Assemble. 2in wide glass strips glued on fin/body joint.
Covered with nice fillets.
Done & even less worry about damage from travel.

The Warlock and Door Knob are two of my favorite kits. I've had 3 now. They are plenty strong build stock using wood glue. The ONLY thing I would think about beefing up is the inside of the body tube behind the aft centering ring. That area tends to get kinked and dinged up. You might ask if you can buy an inch of coupler tubing to add inside when you order the kit.

gerbs4me said:

Good point....I may just have to buy a Warlock and give it a whirl.

Click to expand...

I have one in stock I'll sell ya. Has a 54mm mount too

blackjack2564 said:

Using a 54 mount & going to hammer it.....like I know you will.LOL

Glass it.

Bevel fins first, Glass them up to the bevel.
2 wraps 6oz on tubes.

Assemble. 2in wide glass strips glued on fin/body joint.
Covered with nice fillets.
Done & even less worry about damage from travel.

Click to expand...

What he said!

gerbs4me said:

I'm curious, how does the Warlock not shred on a K when using wood glue during construction? Is it because the higher drag design?

Click to expand...

On A cardboard and wood kit wood glue works awesome. The joint, if prepped properly, is really strong.

Mine is built with Titebond II, but has yet to fly. I thought about glassing the tube, but the weight added limits the lower thrust (cheaper) motors.
Relatively cheaper motors is important to me.
I did however step it up to a 54mm MMT, just in case I hit the lottery.....

I love big rockets and would enjoy having one the size of the Warlock. But like most, availability of a field for flying one is limited. Most of the time I can't fly over an H size motor and the Loc website states this rocket will fly on an H. My sims get a stock Warlock off the ground at under 40 ft/sec on an H170. I like it a little quicker than that. Rocksim does give me ~ 53 ft/sec on an H268.

What are your experiences for those of you who have flown this stock on H reloads?

I flew a stock Warlock on an H242. It only achieved about 600-700 feet and I had to cut the delay down to 4 seconds to make it work. It was fun and it wowed the crowd at a small launch, but I don't think I'd want to do it on a regular basis.

Warlock and magnum being built.

Warlock on an H...I think you are looking at a lot of rocket on not much motor. I think you would be better off on a higher thrust I

How about an H999? That will get it moving.. One of my favorite motors.
Steve

That might work. Still not going to go very high, which might be ok. To a point you need a bit of altitude/ time to get the laundry out and inflated.

SDramstad said:

How about an H999? That will get it moving.. One of my favorite motors.
Steve

Click to expand...

Need electronics for recovery with that one.

tbonerocketeer said:

Need electronics for recovery with that one.

Click to expand...

Well Okay....... there is that............

It AT reloads I would look at the I300 or I435 Blue thunder loads. Maybe the I366 Redline or I284 White. Those should all get you between 850-1100 feet, and have motor delay.

CTI I303 or I470. Similar altitudes