New State Dept ITAR rules proposed - warning

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jderimig

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There has been discussion on this forum about development of gadgets and ITAR status of those. There is a new rule being proposed that may be scary and we as a community may choose to comment.

The NRA has been activated on this as they are worrying that will affect discussion of the technical details of guns and ammo on internet forums, blogs and private websites.

Some of the stuff the rocket community does might be equally interpreted as applicable as well. Is the NRA statement excerpt.

"In their current form, the ITAR do not (as a rule) regulate technical data that are in what the regulations call the 'public domain.' Essentially, this means data 'which is published and which is generally accessible or available to the public' through a variety of specified means. These include 'at libraries open to the public or from which the public can obtain documents.' Many have read this provision to include material that is posted on publicly available websites, since most public libraries these days make Internet access available to their patrons.

"The ITAR, however, were originally promulgated in the days before the Internet. Some State Department officials now insist that anything published online in a generally-accessible location has essentially been 'exported,' as it would be accessible to foreign nationals both in the U.S. and overseas.

"With the new proposal published on June 3, the State Department claims to be 'clarifying' the rules concerning 'technical data' posted online or otherwise 'released' into the 'public domain.' To the contrary, however, the proposal would institute a massive new prior restraint on free speech. This is because all such releases would require the 'authorization' of the government before they occurred. The cumbersome and time-consuming process of obtaining such authorizations, moreover, would make online communication about certain technical aspects of firearms and ammunition essentially impossible."


I interpret this as just discussion of technical details of IMU's rocketry applications on this forum may fall under violation of ITAR not just the devices themselves.
 
Most of the things we discuss are specifically excluded from ITAR so the "exportation" of that information isn't an issue, but a few things on here do creep into that get area at the edge of the definitions.
 
Good luck getting rid of the prior review requirment. The discussion section makes clear that this is not a new requirement:

The requirements of paragraph (b) are not new. Rather, they are a more explicit statement of the ITAR’s requirement that one must seek and receive a license or other authorization from the Department or other cognizant U.S. government authority to release ITAR controlled ‘‘technical data,’’ as defined in § 120.10.

Page 31528
 
Some thing to consider is what is considered "technical data"

Our basic CP/CG stability stuff has been public knowledge for a long time

A block diagram of an altimeter is not technical data. A detailed schematic may be. The actual firmware/software code most likely is

Propellant formulas could be considered technical data. The description and thrust curve of a blue vs red propellant would not be.

If we start trying to develop active guidance systems, those details would probably be classified as technical data. Again, high level block diagrams are not technical data.

I do not have access to the restricted section, but from my years reading TRF (& YORF, ROL, etc) I would say 99.999% of the postings do not contain technical data (at least not tech data that has been publicly available and hence exempt)
 
Here is the cause of my concern. There is a wealth of technical information accessible to us hobbiests thanks to the internet. Electronics, chips, algorithms, etc etc we search and build upon other peoples work. In the old days when this information lived in libraries and journals it was considered controlled an not "exported". The State dept new rule now defines that once this information is put on a public website it is now "exported". I am afraid that this "clarification" of the rules will have a chilling effect on innovation and will gum up the sharing of technical information and innovation.

Someone publishes a Kalman filtering algorithm that may be useful to us and we won't be able to find it because of the new ITAR will scare the publisher not to post it because its better to be safe than sorry.....
 
This is a big issue. TRA needs to get involved fast. If I'm reading this properly, the discussion of EX rocketry will be hindered greatly. Free speech online is a core requirement to the advancement of our hobby in the current digital age. There's no telling how far this will go if we dont stop it here and now.
 
Frankly, this new "clarification" doesn't change much. ITAR has always applied to the sharing of information across boarders in any form. What is or isn't restricted by ITAR is a matter of content not transmission method. The "public domain" exemption does not protect anything you post or publish in a public forum, or in a library, as suggested by the NRA response. I can't publish missile targeting algorithms in a book, claim it's "public domain" and ship it to all of the libraries and governments of the world. Public domain protects information and ideas that are common knowledge in a given field and would be expected to be already known to an individual with basic training in that field. So techniques for hand loading your own bullets are probably exempt from ITAR, so would be specification for commercial rocket motors. Designs for improving motor performance or formula for propellants are likely ITAR controlled. That is part of the reason our EX forum is restricted to US citizens, it covers the forums butts from ITAR.

If anything you post or send out will be seen by someone outside your country of origin and it is of a material that is controlled by your countries export controls you could potentially be in violation. When sending information or materials outside of the US you need permission from the state department as well as the complete credentials of the recipient and a statement from them that they are the end user and will not propagate the material further. This was the basis for my request for a US only section of the forum to discuss other potential ITAR topics. It is also the reason companies like 3DRobotics that develop UAV tech have dedicated employees to handle regulatory compliance, and it is the reason that in those circles before discussing any new application of the technology they will urge you to be aware of your countries export laws.

I don't see this as changing much, just defining it more explicitly.
 
This will never pass. An "export" is something that leaves America and goes to a foreign nation. It can be a phone call, an e-mail, a package, a disk...but it can't be a web site that is hosted inside the United States. If the information never leaves (i.e., is exported from) the USA, then there is no ITAR requirement. The fact that someone in another country can access and retrieve the information from a US hosted web site is a different issue.
 
This will be impossible to enforce. Google "RSA in 5 lines of perl". Look at the images...
 
This was the basis for my request for a US only section of the forum to discuss other potential ITAR topics.

This will and the Ex forum will be in violation by ITAR because as experience shows the internet is not secure and I am sure the forum administration doesn't have strict SOP's in place to insure people who have access are US Citizens, hardly....

Edit: Why would the owners of this or any other forum risk a million dollar fine and imprisionment because they couldn't verify containment of information posted? They would be insane to allow such content. Just saying "we intended to prevent export by having a US only section" won't cut it.
 
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This will and the Ex forum will be in violation by ITAR because as experience shows the internet is not secure and I am sure the forum administration doesn't have strict SOP's in place to insure people who have access are US Citizens, hardly....

Edit: Why would the owners of this or any other forum risk a million dollar fine and imprisionment because they couldn't verify containment of information posted? They would be insane to allow such content. Just saying "we intended to prevent export by having a US only section" won't cut it.

If I build a shed on my property, and I lock up some technical data in there, and someone from another country breaks in and steals my data, have I committed an export violation? No.

If someone from another company hacks the restricted forum and steals the information, same thing.
 
. An "export" is something that leaves America and goes to a foreign nation. It can be a phone call, an e-mail, a package, a disk...but it can't be a web site that is hosted inside the United States. If the information never leaves (i.e., is exported from) the USA, then there is no ITAR requirement. The fact that someone in another country can access and retrieve the information from a US hosted web site is a different issue.

That is not correct. An export can happen anywhere by any means. You can have a US citizen who works for a foreign company or government and you share controlled technical data with them here in the US, it is still considered as an export.
An export can happen with Hardware, software, in writing, verbal discussion, emails, computer files, etc. So long as the technical data goes to a foreign national or even to a US citizen but one who is employed by a foreign company/government it is an export. It does not have to be a "thing" that leaves the country, it is the knowledge that is transferred that is an export. So if you post something on a US based web site but it is open to any foreign person/group to see, it is still an export.

The question still gets back to is it TECHNICAL data or high level information, and even if it is TECHNICAL data, is it already freely available?
 
This will and the Ex forum will be in violation by ITAR because as experience shows the internet is not secure and I am sure the forum administration doesn't have strict SOP's in place to insure people who have access are US Citizens, hardly....

Edit: Why would the owners of this or any other forum risk a million dollar fine and imprisionment because they couldn't verify containment of information posted? They would be insane to allow such content. Just saying "we intended to prevent export by having a US only section" won't cut it.

You are correct, currently the forum only requires a statement that your a citizen and a picture of your Tripoli L2 card. If they required a copy of a photo I'd and a signed statement of end use they may be ok. That is all that is required of companies for this kind of thing. They may be required to verify the user isn't on a banned list as well... If they wanted to open it to friendly nations I believe the credentials would have to be checked by the feds for each user.
 
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If I build a shed on my property, and I lock up some technical data in there, and someone from another country breaks in and steals my data, have I committed an export violation? No.

If someone from another company hacks the restricted forum and steals the information, same thing.

I think the standard is whether you have provided reasonable security appropriate for the contents of the shed. So yes if the security was shoddy then you may or(or may not) be responsible.

I am assuming that this forum does not have the security and user verification systems that approach corporate security systems much less DOD or government security systems.
 
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