Reality does not exist until it is measured

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Winston

Winston

Lorenzo von Matterhorn
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Quantum physics is so weird. This characteristic was covered in a TV documentary, perhaps a Through the Wormhole episode.

Experiment confirms quantum theory weirdness

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150527103110.htm

The bizarre nature of reality as laid out by quantum theory has survived another test, with scientists performing a famous experiment and proving that reality does not exist until it is measured.

The ANU team not only succeeded in building the experiment, which seemed nearly impossible when it was proposed in 1978, but reversed Wheeler's original concept of light beams being bounced by mirrors, and instead used atoms scattered by laser light.

[snip]

If one chooses to believe that the atom really did take a particular path or paths then one has to accept that a future measurement is affecting the atom's past, said Truscott.

"The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence," he said.
 
Quantum physics is weird. And this just adds another level of weirdness to it.

I remember learning about one-slit and 2-slit interference patterns and being totally baffled by the violation of common sense. A wave creates a different interference pattern, depending on whether it travels through one slit or two side-by-side slits. But in the case of light, it arrives at the target in discrete "quanta" or particles. A particle seems like it can only go through one slit, and shouldn't cause an interference pattern at all, let alone a different interference pattern depending on the number of slits. Somehow the particle goes through both paths, not just one. I think I remember it being described as the particle traveling like a wave, but arriving as a particle. They are both particles and waves. The wave characteristic create a probability of where the particle is, but it isn't really anywhere, until it is observed.

All common sense breaks down at that quantum level.

This is just another reason the universe may just be a big simulation inside some kind of weird computer. Imagine a computer game where you are a character who travels around inside a giant maze shooting monsters. The layout of the maze and the probability of encountering a monster are part of the program, but the detailed rendering of what you see is only generated when you actually move into part of the maze.
 
Quantum breaks my mind. things are everywhere and nowhere, things can be "entangled", things are everything at once, and some dude locked his cat in a box! With poison!

The two slit experiment is one of my "favorites", and seriously freaky.

Nate
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
Quantum physics is weird. And this just adds another level of weirdness to it.

I remember learning about one-slit and 2-slit interference patterns and being totally baffled by the violation of common sense. A wave creates a different interference pattern, depending on whether it travels through one slit or two side-by-side slits. But in the case of light, it arrives at the target in discrete "quanta" or particles. A particle seems like it can only go through one slit, and shouldn't cause an interference pattern at all, let alone a different interference pattern depending on the number of slits. Somehow the particle goes through both paths, not just one. I think I remember it being described as the particle traveling like a wave, but arriving as a particle. They are both particles and waves. The wave characteristic create a probability of where the particle is, but it isn't really anywhere, until it is observed.

All common sense breaks down at that quantum level.

This is just another reason the universe may just be a big simulation inside some kind of weird computer. Imagine a computer game where you are a character who travels around inside a giant maze shooting monsters. The layout of the maze and the probability of encountering a monster are part of the program, but the detailed rendering of what you see is only generated when you actually move into part of the maze.
Click to expand...

The big computer is God's brain.

Uh, oh, did I just violate the religion rule? :facepalm:
 
Yes sir Mister RSO, I am sure my oddroc with pods will fly on a Quantum Level. I have mind simmed it many times, it is just an ignition issue. There goes my pad assignment in and out of reality. The way back pad at the end of the day with a fire crew and at least six certified levels of supervision, that is reality. Oh those crazy Germans in the twenties and early thirties, all that silly math and rockets to boot. Maybe I can get my next pad assignment using String Theory.
 
I'm hoping my next rocket will just spontaneously appear out of nowhere as a quantum fluctuation.

Pop! There it is!

Oops. Gone again...
 
So my not having measured the waistband sizes and inseams of the scientists conducting this experiment means it never happened?

What this kind of thinking boils down to is that “We” created the universe with a tape measurer.

The more I read about this stuff the more convinced I have become that somewhere years ago science made a great big Boo-Boo and missed something obvious.
As a result they keep coming up with more and more ridicules conclusions that would be much more logical or simpler if we knew what that missed item was.
 
You don't have to delve into quantum theory to realize that the majority of reality we perceive is in our mind. If you remember the "dress" meme from a couple of months ago, some saw it gold, some saw it black. A better example is this picture:

INLINE_HARRIS2-624x484.jpg


If you look at the squares labeled A and B, the majority of people would indicate that A is clearly a black square in the light, while B is a white square in the shade. In computer vision, we use a technique called surface spectral reflectance (SSR) to convert the physical wavelength of light reflecting off of a surface into essentially a number usable by a computer. When a computer looks at this picture, it see's the squares A and B as exactly the same color, and cannot differentiate the squares at all . So despite the fact A and B have EXACTLY the same SSR, our brain is synthesizing it's own perceived reality to see the checkerboard, and INFER things like the effects of lighting on true (base) color which is not the same as the measured reality in which we live.

Our world is filled with rabbit holes like "what is the nature of color" you can go down in which conventional wisdom and understanding are thrown out the window.
 
What I find most troubling about that image is that some slob set is coffee cup down on my chess board.

That’ll leave a ring.
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
Quantum physics is weird. And this just adds another level of weirdness to it.

I remember learning about one-slit and 2-slit interference patterns and being totally baffled by the violation of common sense. A wave creates a different interference pattern, depending on whether it travels through one slit or two side-by-side slits. But in the case of light, it arrives at the target in discrete "quanta" or particles. A particle seems like it can only go through one slit, and shouldn't cause an interference pattern at all, let alone a different interference pattern depending on the number of slits. Somehow the particle goes through both paths, not just one. I think I remember it being described as the particle traveling like a wave, but arriving as a particle. They are both particles and waves. The wave characteristic create a probability of where the particle is, but it isn't really anywhere, until it is observed.

All common sense breaks down at that quantum level.

This is just another reason the universe may just be a big simulation inside some kind of weird computer. Imagine a computer game where you are a character who travels around inside a giant maze shooting monsters. The layout of the maze and the probability of encountering a monster are part of the program, but the detailed rendering of what you see is only generated when you actually move into part of the maze.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's all been covered in various documentaries I've seen, especially in Through the Wormhole episodes. Here's something amazing that was also covered in an episode that's of great importance:

Weird Quantum Theory (also) Works in 'Big' Things

https://www.livescience.com/27137-uncertainty-principle-measured-macro-scale.html

They knew it was true, but now they've shown it: Scientists have demonstrated that the uncertainty principle, one of the most famous rules of quantum physics, operates in macroscopic objects visible to the naked eye.

The principle, described by physicist Werner Heisenberg nearly a century ago, states that the mere act of measuring the position of a particle, such as an electron, necessarily disturbs its momentum. That means the more precisely you try to measure its location, the less you know about how fast it's moving, and vice versa.

While in theory this principle operates on all objects, in practice its effects were thought to be measurable only in the tiny realm where the rules of quantum mechanics are important. In a new experiment, described in the Feb. 15 issue of the journal Science, physicists have shown that the uncertainty principle effects can be detected in a tiny drum visible to the naked eye.
 
alexzogh said:
You don't have to delve into quantum theory to realize that the majority of reality we perceive is in our mind.
Click to expand...
The reason that experiment is so incredible has nothing to do with the brain's easily altered (inherently or chemically) perception of reality, it's about the very existence of reality itself and the fact that a future act can apparently alter the past. That's mind blowing.
 
Daddyisabar said:
But will it have pods? I want to see pods with motors in them!
Click to expand...

It did have pods with motors! But only for .000000000000000000000000000000000153 seconds. Then the pods recombined with their virtual anti-pods and disappeared back into the vacuum. But they were GREAT while they lasted!
 
Winston said:
The reason that experiment is so incredible has nothing to do with the brain's easily altered (inherently or chemically) perception of reality, it's about the very existence of reality itself and the fact that a future act can apparently alter the past. That's mind blowing.
Click to expand...


This isn't what the experiment proved at all, in fact, it proved the opposite. This is only true if you believe the atom specifically took one path or the other. I don't believe that at all - I believe the atom had the probability to take both paths, as quantum theory, and the many worlds theory accurately predicts.

At the end of the article, he tried to explain the disconnect you think you are seeing, although he could have done a better job.

" If one chooses to believe that the atom really did take a particular path or paths then one has to accept that a future measurement is affecting the atom's past, said Truscott."
"The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence," he said.

 the act of measurement created the result, it did not exist (therefore was not present in the past to be altered) before the measurement. Thus, the reality you think (history was altered by the future) is actually created in your brain by your understanding of time and cause-effect relationship, just like we think the B square is in the shade even though all of the measured results say something different.
 
Last edited:
alexzogh said:



This isn't what the experiment proved at all, in fact, it proved the opposite. This is only true if you believe the atom specifically took one path or the other. I don't believe that at all - I believe the atom had the probability to take both paths, as quantum theory, and the many worlds theory accurately predicts.

At the end of the article, he tried to explain the disconnect you think you are seeing, although he could have done a better job.

" If one chooses to believe that the atom really did take a particular path or paths then one has to accept that a future measurement is affecting the atom's past, said Truscott."
"The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence," he said.

 the act of measurement created the result, it did not exist (therefore was not present in the past to be altered) before the measurement. Thus, the reality you think (history was altered by the future) is actually created in your brain by your understanding of time and cause-effect relationship, just like we think the B square is in the shade even though all of the measured results say something different.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this explanation. I read the article and thought the same thing Winston thought that they had found a way to time travel and alter the past. Now I understand that the two sentences need to be read together. I'm still a little fuzzy on why the atoms didn't travel from a to b but understood that that was the assumption I made in my head which is why it seemed confusing. I blame my catholic school education. For every cause like my misbehaving in class there was an effect getting hit with a ruler! Also can you change your font? it feels like you are shouting
 
Last edited:
boomtube-mk2 said:
So my not having measured the waistband sizes and inseams of the scientists conducting this experiment means it never happened?

What this kind of thinking boils down to is that “We” created the universe with a tape measurer.

The more I read about this stuff the more convinced I have become that somewhere years ago science made a great big Boo-Boo and missed something obvious.
As a result they keep coming up with more and more ridicules conclusions that would be much more logical or simpler if we knew what that missed item was.
Click to expand...

I think the scientists don't exist until they are measured
 
There are three states a cat can be in: alive, dead, and furious. This is why, if you intend to do Schrodinger's experiment, you should wear a suit of armour.

If nothing exists until it has been observed at a quantum level, how did the Earth exist before quantum physicists were invented? Can we destroy the universe by rounding up all the quantum physicists and shooting them? Better yet, put them in a box in which the release of a poison gas is controlled by a radioactive particle, and if the universe still exists then at least one of them is probably still alive.

None of the particles which make up my body have been measured by any quantum physicist. Therefore they do not exist. Therefore I do not exist. Oh sh
 

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