Camden, SC: ROSCO Sport Launch: 13-14 August

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Al,

You have been a top notch gauy all the way through this. It is unfortunate that it ended this way.

Hopefully, we acquire a new field and you can attend another launch with us in the future.
 
cwbullet said:
Sir,

Thanks for your efforts. You were not the problem. If you know the plant name, send it to me. I am pretty sure I know the name.

Regardless of the outcome, I am going to recommend that we send a note of apology to the corporation. It will not return the field to our usage, but they should know we are not a bunch of rednecks shooting off rockets indescriminately.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more Chuck, reaching out to apologize is the correct move.
 
H_Rocket said:
Actually I brought this to the attention of the NAR as soon as it looks like things were turning sour. Ted was sort of shocked that an aerospace company would react like they initially did and immediately offered what limited support he could to Johnny. The company is GKN Aerospace. I will let the leadership of ICBM and ROSCO in on the parties involved off line.

Now for the real fun part. Driving 17 hours each way to pick the darn thing up. I've had a few offers of folks to act as my proxy, however I think it would be best if I carried this through personally.

I do appreciate the supportive comments from folks even though I managed to make things a bit more difficult for a bunch of people I gladly call friends.
Click to expand...

Excellent job at handling this Al, at the same time I'm very sorry it happened to you...or anyone for that matter.
 
I was at NSL on Saturday and early Sunday, and had a great time talking to all of the NAR, TRA (and both!) members and watching some great projects fly.

This incident was very unfortunate, and we'll do everything we can to bring this situation to the best resolution we can, and get ROSCO and ICBM flying somewhere as soon as possible. Funny things can happen in our hobby, and we all know that and accept the risk, every time we launch a rocket. Al has been a model of responsibility throughout.

Meanwhile, we can probably learn from this: Given ongoing development around many of our sites, we might all benefit from a careful review of splash patterns given various wind directions and altitudes, and, if needed, develop a set of conservative operations procedures that determine constraints based on wind speed and direction, altitude, presence of dual deploy, and the sensitivity of the neighboring areas. The Apt Committee's Safety Study (https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/launchsafe.pdf) has a good example of this in the last appendix, when NHRC had to develop a pretty rigorous protocol after hitting a building at JSC, or lose their right to fly.
 
Excellent point Ted, also will be interesting to know the weight of the rocket and if redundancy was used on the main ( dual charge ) .
 
Chuck and Al,,,
My greatest compliments to you both on your handling this matter...

Al,,
YOU did not make anything difficult on anyone......
You attended a launch,,
you flew a rocket,,

That's it.....

It is completely irrelevant who's rocket it was...
What is relevant is there were a few hundred flight and this happened on one of them...
Which one doesn't change anything nor matter in the least.......

Al,,
I understand you believing it's best for you to pick this rocket up in person..
If that changes I'm sure we can set up a relay hand off to get the rocket back up north...
There are many many rocketeers between South Carolina and Connecticut.........

Teddy
 
That's a real bummer, losing a great field because of one isolated incident. Perhaps this will help...

attaboy1.jpg
 
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Q-Aero said:
Excellent point Ted, also will be interesting to know the weight of the rocket and if redundancy was used on the main ( dual charge ) .
Click to expand...

It was 32# bare and 47# loaded with the M1969. Fully redundant deployment was used with a MARSA4 as the primary and an ARTS as the backup. Drogue was apogee with a +2 sec on the backup. Charges were 5g (150% of calculated optimal). Mains were at 800' with backup at 700'. It seemed that the laundry came out with the primary, however something tangled and it took longer than needed to inflate. Mains was a Skyangle Cert3 XXL.

I probably should have used my default 1,000' deployment, however due to the strong intermittent crosswinds we were experiencing (leading away from the eventual landing spot), I chose to try and keep the drift down.
 
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I can't give you the map like Propellanthead did, but here are the Google map coordinates for a really huge field. Sadly it's a little east of New Bern NC ( kinda far away ) but this is where the folks with NC Rocketry launch. You will have to go in satellite mode and zoom out a bit, but they got themselves one nice chunk-o-land.

35.175546, -76.809783

Or try this...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...0219m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0!6m1!1e1
 
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We can not use the same field as another club. We can still launch there but it will be their launch.

This is the email / letter form Supersod:
Thank you for speaking with me on the phone earlier this week.

As I said when we spoke, I am sorry that we will no longer be able to host your Rocketry club here on our farm. Your group has always been great to deal with and you have taken good care of our facilities through the years. We have been glad to share our farm with you up to this point. Unfortunately, as a result of the incident that occurred this past weekend where a rocket landed on, and caused a hole in (for the second time in the last couple of years), the GKN Westland Aerospace building in the Orangeburg County Industrial Park adjacent to us, we find ourselves in a situation that we feel dictates that we no longer allow the launches to take place here. We have been contacted by both GKN, and Orangeburg County with complaints about the incident, and subsequent concerns for the safety of their employees and facilities.

Again, we are sorry to have to take this unfortunate action. I hope that you and your membership will understand our concerns about the liability and litigation that we might find our company involved with should some untoward event occur as a result of subsequent launchings.

We wish you and your membership the best of luck in the future.
Click to expand...

I am not painting either as a bad guy, but it gives their prospective. We will find a new location and look toward the future.
 
Update: we continue to receive leads and check them out. No site yet, but give us time.

We are looking under every rock and in any nook or cranny for a launch site. We are trying to be choosy and find a similar or better site. Be patient. This is a slow process. Once we find a site, we will need a new waiver.
 
Of all things, a manager of an Aerospace company putting the boots to a club in our hobby.
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your field. It's always a sad thing to hear.
Best of luck finding a new location.
 
According to Ted Cochran, NAR President: Unfortunately, on Monday, a 6" HPR rocket flight went awry and landed under chute on the roof of a building in an adjacent industrial park, causing minor damage to the roof, but a major issue with the building's owner. When I have more information on that incident, I'll let you know
 
It is likely within the copay so no.

It does not change the result. We lost the field.
 
Al,

Good point. Most folk do know the specifics of the insurance.
 
For the record, NAR insurance is good to $5M, with a $5000 deductible. Rocket flyer pays the first $1000. It doesn't sound like in this case the actual damages are even close to that; it's the perception of risk that has changed.
 
Ted Cochran said:
For the record, NAR insurance is good to $5M, with a $5000 deductible. Rocket flyer pays the first $1000. It doesn't sound like in this case the actual damages are even close to that; it's the perception of risk that has changed.
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That is correct. It is not the level of damage. This is way I did not indicate a level of damage to the building. The damage was not the reason for the loss of the field.
 
cwbullet said:
Sir,

Thanks for your efforts. You were not the problem. If you know the plant name, send it to me. I am pretty sure I know the name.

Regardless of the outcome, I am going to recommend that we send a note of apology to the corporation. It will not return the field to our usage, but they should know we are not a bunch of rednecks shooting off rockets indescriminately.
Click to expand...

Excellent idea Chuck!
 
Sorry to hear about this Chuck. I was planning on attending one of your Summer launches. Hope you can find a replacement field!
 
GKN Aerospace was a past direct sponsor of TARC. They may still be considered a sponsor via their membership in AIA.

It is good to work out agreements in advance if there is ANY chance that a rocket will land on other property ("other" means outside the "Launch and Recovery Site" - it should not be only a "Launch Site").

Agreements can be made that anything that lands on a roof must wait until they retrieve it or they may have someone working weekends that can do so. No business should be allowing anyone to climb up onto their roof. Bad things can happen to rocket people who go up to the roof.....
 
Fred,,,read post 34.

Al went over there Tues and asked the maintenance guy for permission. They were closed for Memorial weekend & monday.
He actually took Al up there. [access is via inside stairs] While gathering up rocket manager shows up & goes ballistic.
No one went on roof with out permission. Maybe wrong person, but none the less he asked & they allowed.
 
Thanks CJ.

Folks, don't' tread part of the thread and make assumptions. There is a chance on most sites that a rocket will drift off the recovery area. Especially if there is an apogee deployment or wind shift.
 
I read it. I said to do so in advance of launching, not after something lands outside the launch and recovery area/property.
blackjack2564 said:
Fred,,,read post 34.

Al went over there Tues and asked the maintenance guy for permission. They were closed for Memorial weekend & monday.
He actually took Al up there. [access is via inside stairs] While gathering up rocket manager shows up & goes ballistic.
No one went on roof with out permission. Maybe wrong person, but none the less he asked & they allowed.
Click to expand...
 
Make arrangements in advance if you know that you will allow flights that might leave your approved launch and recovery area. Talk to neighbors before something happens - espescially if you plan to allow rockets to be launched that can drift onto other's property.

Yes it is more work but it is less work than finding a new field.

The same rules apply to small model rockets. I've seen schools that launched on small suburban schoolyards and little model rockets gently drifted out of the school property and onto busy streets and onto commercial property roofs.

With big events we avoid rockets drifting onto roads/highways. We can talk to neighbors with buildings or other property in advance. It is simply a good idea and bring a good neighbor.

cwbullet said:
Thanks CJ.

Folks, don't' tread part of the thread and make assumptions. There is a chance on most sites that a rocket will drift off the recovery area. Especially if there is an apogee deployment or wind shift.
Click to expand...
 
I have launched here for 8 years and we have less than a handful rocket land outside the recovery area and I have hit 8500 feet. We did not have an agreement for this portion of industrial park, but in this case, it would not have made much difference.

It is easy to Monday morning quarterback. This launch hastened an end that was coming. Each year, the field was shrinking (sort of). Trust me, we were good neighbors with all but this plant.

I have closed the thread. The information is in the thread and I will repost once I have an update.

You can visit: Rocketry South Carolina for an update.
 
Folks,

We continue to look at new sites. Once we have a new site, we will form an agreement with the landowner and redo the waiver. This is going to be a long process. Thanks for your patience.
 

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