Camden, SC: ROSCO Sport Launch: 13-14 August

patelldp said:

Might want to find out what the actual damage was prior to offering money. If it was significant and at this time he's taking care of it himself, probably better not to poke the sleeping bear.

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Was there actual damage? It wan't clear if there was or if that was still a question.

It is reported that there was damage. We can not confirm it. N

Ok, SUPERSOD is now out of the question. Let's not conjecture why they have decided to cut ties. They gave us 20 years and let's look at it as a gift. They do not owe us another.

We are looking at other options. June and July are cancelled. We will post more when we have an update. If you have a field in mind and a contact information for the owner, please send me a PM or email. Do not contact Johnny or Bobby directly. It is not that they do not want your help. They are inundated at this time with emails and calls.

This could have happened to anyone and at any field. Stay positive, we will find a solution.

Hey folks,

Let me stop the assorted speculation. the rocket in question was my 6" Ultimate Darkstar launched late Monday afternoon. The flight profile seemed nominal however the mains inflated a bit late. It landed on the roof of a building currently used by GKN Aerospace. 100' higher and the wind would have put it in the parking lot. I went over there on Tuesday morning and a few folks there were very gracious and offered to help me get it down. On looking, there was a small divot the size of a 6" booster and a 10" gash (fin sized) in the rubber membrane roofing. I had started to recover it with the maintenance mechanic when we were told to stop and immediately come down leaving everything as is. The plant manager was on site and to say he was mad would be a serious understatement. He raged on about rockets falling from the sky and putting all the people in his two buildings at risk. I would like to note that the building in question is actually all but empty right now. He demanded I get off his property and actually threatened to fire the employees who were helping me. I tried multiple approaches to smooth things out to no avail. I offered to give him any and all necessary insurance documentation and he refused to accept it. Heck if he had asked, I would have gone to the bank and gotten cash. He was only interested in putting "those Carolina rocket nuts" out of commission. He threatened to get the police involved (now I wish he had). As things closed up I asked if he would please remove the rocket from the roof and advise me what the damages were so I could make him whole. He told me it would be a week or so and is currently holding the rocket as a lien to ensure I pay him.

I really feel awful to have been the cause of this and would do anything to undo the damage.

Al

Wow. It sounds like the property owner is maybe a bit... uh... let's say "unreasonable"... That's too bad it had to be someone like that.

I'm a relatively new club member and I launched (for level 2) shortly after the launch of the rocket in question. My rocket and I believe all subsequent ones ALL landed on the field during the same weather conditions. As stated, it was a fluke and Chuck and the other club officers deserve much credit and appreciation for the excellently organized and safely run NSL event that was attended by hundreds of individuals from locals as distant as Michigan. Let's hope that issues are resolved in Orangeburg or that a new launch site is found soon.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Wow. It sounds like the property owner is maybe a bit... uh... let's say "unreasonable"... That's too bad it had to be someone like that.

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Bah... I'll say it: He is being a hyper-emotional and irrational douchebag with anger-management issues.

Al,

Thanks for posting. I agree that this individual was the central problem.

There is no solution. He flexed his muscle and the farm owner decided they wanted to end use of their field.

Unfortunately it always comes down to one person on a mission, I've seen it numerous times. The only thing that can be done is to look towards the future.

Chuck and Co - sorry to hear of the loss of your field. I came down a few years ago and flew off the sod farm while visiting my inlaws in Summerville. I wanted to say thanks again for the experience, it was a great group and a nice field - I had a great time!

Wishing you the best of luck finding a new field, and hoping I can join you guys again at some point in the future during another trip.

This is too bad to hear. I hope you guys find a new field soon.

Thanks guys. I may have to go fishing. All this stress makes me need to relax.

We will find a field.

cwbullet said:

Thanks guys. I may have to go fishing. All this stress makes me need to relax.

We will find a field.

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Enjoy and relax Chuck! I'm sure you and the club will find a solution.

Aw geez Al,,
I feel terrible for you..
I know how I'd feel if that were me..
This could have been anyone,, any flight..
Chuck's right,,
You're just that one dumb bad luck flight away from loosing your field...

I sure feel for you Al...
But this could have been anyone..

Teddy

Al, thanks for stepping up and clearing the air. You answered alot of questions before they became rumors. I hope you get you rocket back intact. Nobody blames you, the thought never crossed our mind.

cwbullet said:

Thanks guys. I may have to go fishing. All this stress makes me need to relax.

We will find a field.

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This one is nicely sized:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5259958,-81.4577726,5493m/data=!3m1!1e3

Thanks. Do you know if it has a single owner?

cwbullet said:

Thanks. Do you know if it has a single owner?

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I got nuthin'...

I was just looking around on google maps out of sympathy. Finding a nice looking field to covet is the easy part. Finding the owners and convincing them to let you have a launch...well...that's the REALLY hard part.

We might look at that one. Thanks. It is huge.

cwbullet said:

We might look at that one. Thanks. It is huge.

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Looking at Google, I think that's the Walther potato farm.

-- Roger

This really sucks! While I'm unlikely to be in SC in the near future, it's still terrible to lose a field, and potentially a group of dedicated folks - I'm just now learning what a valuable asset a club of like-minded rocketeers can be.

That said, and I'm obviously not trying to be an ass here, but as a mostly neutral party it objectively seems like the industrial site manager has a legitimate beef - it's probably not fair to call him a douchebag despite his, uh, unmeasured response. After all, you DID overfly a populated site with a big, potentially dangerous object. And while nobody got hurt, that sounds like mostly luck. What would have happened if it was a full on lawn dart instead of just a tangled chute? Sure, the building was mostly empty and you "almost" made the parking lot, but again, you're relying on luck to protect uninvolved bystanders (not informed spectators) who didn't consent to being overflown by big potentially dangerous objects. Intentional or not,you really did put someone's life and property at risk, and that person is under no obligation to consent to future risk.

I'm basing this on Bercini's earlier description of multiple rockets leaving the field due to weather cocking and only coming back while drifting under chute. Al's the unlucky guy that had a bad chute, but any of those rockets could have had the same or much worse happen. Honestly, I think once the weather is causing properly performing rockets to leave the safe landing area at any time during flight, you need to stop launching, as tough as that is (major respect to all range officers, who risk the wrath of rocketeers, and their own disappointment, to keep things safe). The FAA waiver altitude is irrelevant - they're mainly responsible for the airspace, it's up to you to protect the public on the ground. This didn't "JUST HAPPEN" - apparently observable, predictable conditions made an otherwise safe flight an unnecessarily hazardous one.

Not trying to assign blame or personally attack anyone - ultimately, **** happened and you got bit, despite everyone's best efforts and intentions. But if we're going to protect the hobby, it's important to learn a lesson if there's a lesson to be learned. And I don't think "if people we hurt get upset, they are irrational douchebags on a mission" is a helpful lesson. I think cw's statement that "we need to look at the last 20 years as a gift" is definitely the right attitude. The public owes us nothing - we're outnumbered by several orders of magnitude. And they don't know all that we put into these things. All they know is that a big fiery thing came down from the sky and put a dent in their roof.

If it helps, I say this as a guy who works on space launch vehicles, each one of which carries big explosives that blow the whole thing to smithereens, no questions asked, if the IIP crosses a line on a map. Doesn't matter if it still has a chance to come back, doesn't matter if the payload is worth billions. If the risk to the public goes above a certain number, BLAMMO.

Oberon said:

I'm basing this on Bercini's earlier description of multiple rockets leaving the field due to weather cocking and only coming back while drifting under chute.

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That is not what LW said and it is not what happened.

-- Roger

Roger,

Thanks. You are correct. This is a soap box back seat drivers opinion of someone that was not on the field. Only 2 rockets left that side of the field and about as many come close. Most that left the field landed in the woods on the other side of the field. This was not a predictable event.

'This was not a predictable event'

Then you are failing your Accident Projection Techniques and What If drills.

I work for a company that has issued permanent bans on contractors that have simply carried a hammer up a ladder, rather than pulling a toolkit up by rope after. The plant manager's response was also predictable. Even with minor property damage, that kind of event would be reportable all the way up. And if the motor were still even smoking, they'd probably have to report it as a fire, too. You can't underestimate how the corporate push for world class safety has driven people to hunting for problems in the weeds.

Charles_McG said:

'This was not a predictable event'

Then you are failing your Accident Projection Techniques and What If drills.

I work for a company that has issued permanent bans on contractors that have simply carried a hammer up a ladder, rather than pulling a toolkit up by rope after. The plant manager's response was also predictable. Even with minor property damage, that kind of event would be reportable all the way up. And if the motor were still even smoking, they'd probably have to report it as a fire, too. You can't underestimate how the corporate push for world class safety has driven people to hunting for problems in the weeds.

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I can, I work on a nuclear waste cleanup site. Its amazing how far things go in the name of safety.

Trust me. We did everythign we could other than just not launch at all. We even stopped the launch when the wind gust to 15 mph.

The ultimater safety would be to stay on the ground.

I personally think this was inevitable. We will come out of it with a better field that hopefully does not border an industruial park.

Just an update from my end.

I was in touch today with the plant manager and the roof damage is quite minor. The repairs will be done early next week and I can pay for the damage I caused. Having had a chance to cool down, he is not quite the ogre I encountered. That said, I would still tread lightly around him. I regret having precipitated this, and hope for the best.

H_Rocket said:

Just an update from my end.

I was in touch today with the plant manager and the roof damage is quite minor. The repairs will be done early next week and I can pay for the damage I caused. Having had a chance to cool down, he is not quite the ogre I encountered. That said, I would still tread lightly around him. I regret having precipitated this, and hope for the best.

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Two stand-up moves Al, posting here and following up with the aggrieved party. :clap: I'm wondering if the NAR leadership has commented on the incident, it happening at one of their big annual events ?

H_Rocket said:

Just an update from my end.

I was in touch today with the plant manager and the roof damage is quite minor. The repairs will be done early next week and I can pay for the damage I caused. Having had a chance to cool down, he is not quite the ogre I encountered. That said, I would still tread lightly around him. I regret having precipitated this, and hope for the best.

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Sir,

Thanks for your efforts. You were not the problem. If you know the plant name, send it to me. I am pretty sure I know the name.

Regardless of the outcome, I am going to recommend that we send a note of apology to the corporation. It will not return the field to our usage, but they should know we are not a bunch of rednecks shooting off rockets indescriminately.

samb said:

Two stand-up moves Al, posting here and following up with the aggrieved party. :clap: I'm wondering if the NAR leadership has commented on the incident, it happening at one of their big annual events ?

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Actually I brought this to the attention of the NAR as soon as it looks like things were turning sour. Ted was sort of shocked that an aerospace company would react like they initially did and immediately offered what limited support he could to Johnny. The company is GKN Aerospace. I will let the leadership of ICBM and ROSCO in on the parties involved off line.

Now for the real fun part. Driving 17 hours each way to pick the darn thing up. I've had a few offers of folks to act as my proxy, however I think it would be best if I carried this through personally.

I do appreciate the supportive comments from folks even though I managed to make things a bit more difficult for a bunch of people I gladly call friends.