PNC-60NA

I'm looking at a new clone. Estes #2156 Prowler. The nosecone listed is a PNC-60NA which looks like an elliptical with a tail cone. Does anyone know what the closest cone would be or where to find this one?

I'm guessing the 60AH or the 60H would be similar, but I'm not sure if the exposed length of the 60NA. Any help is appreciated.

Brian at BRS has one (1) in stock.
https://www.brshobbies.com/catalog.php?ref=BRSHobbies&recview=11&dt=1127&disp=name&per=10

Ah ok. So that's the same as the M-104 Patriot then. Also the one in the 60A nose cone pack from Estes.

That'll make life easier. Gonna build a prowler soon. Not the PSII version.

Kruegon said:

Ah ok. So that's the same as the M-104 Patriot then. Also the one in the 60A nose cone pack from Estes.

That'll make life easier. Gonna build a prowler soon. Not the PSII version.

Click to expand...

Better go snatch it up real quick. He runs out of stuff often and it takes him forever to restock. Check out the other prices on his site while you're at it.

Kruegon said:

Ah ok. So that's the same as the M-104 Patriot then. Also the one in the 60A nose cone pack from Estes.

That'll make life easier. Gonna build a prowler soon. Not the PSII version.

Click to expand...

The nosecone pack has changed... It's not in the new version.

Way to rain on my parade man. Not cool, lol. So what comes in the PNC-60A pack now? The picture on the Estes site shows two of them and two big bertha cones.

A lot of shops still have or are showing the old one still. Last I checked, the LHS here still has a few of the old version on the shelf.

According to Estes' instruction archieves, the Prowler used the part number 72057 nose cone. The same nose cone is used in kit # 1301 Stormchaser. I pulled an open
Stormchaser kit from the attic this morning and compared the nose cone to the one on my wife's built Prower. They are the same. If you can't locate one, contact me.

Chas

The new BT-60 Nosecone Assortment has the same part number (3165) as the old one (still showing on Estes' website) that had the pairs of PNC-60NA and PNC-60L (Big Bertha) nosecones.





Now it includes three nosecones:

All parts are blowmolded, white HIPS plastic

You can still score the PNC-60NA in the Laser Lance rocket (and get an extra BT-55/60 transition out of it).

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

That 60RL looks like a Vagabond/Super Neon XL cone.

The thing I like about the prowler is the feel. It just feels like a MPR or HPR rocket. Kinda reminds me of the AT cheetah.

Kruegon said:

That 60RL looks like a Vagabond/Super Neon XL cone.

The thing I like about the prowler is the feel. It just feels like a MPR or HPR rocket. Kinda reminds me of the AR cheetah.

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It is found with the Vagabond... I'm not sure about the Super Neon XL... The Neon was supposed to have a balsa cone that was replaced due to "The world balsa shortage..." (probably by the PNC-60RL), but I don't have a sample to confirm your suspicion. I don't know if the Neon ever did ship with a balsa cone.

Another detail about the PNC-60RL is the shoulder. Older models (my samples all came from the 1990's) had a smooth shoulder (which my samples have a very tight fit in the body tubes). The newer ones have ridges that can be sanded down to make it fit looser.

I have a Neon XL at the house. I'll double check it when I get home.

So for now my best bet is find someone with the old 60A pack and snatch a few up.

I think I have one from a 60A pack if you need it.

Take a look at both the BNC 60G and BNC 60H available at BMS.

One or the other might fit the bill for you.

I'm looking at options from BMS. I know it's nit-picky, but when I do a clone, I try to clone them exactly. PNC or BNC as is appropriate. I don't want my clone to look like one lol. And I know at 700+ feet no one can tell but I suffer from severe A.R.S. and I would know.

My Super Neon came with a PNC-60AH (Der Red Max nose cone). I parted out the model kit; never liked it's looks.

It's awesome that the PNC-60RL is now available as part of the assortment. I've been wantin' a few of those!

Marc

I decided to take a couple of photos of the PNC-60RL to show the differences between old and new...



The older one appears to be longer, but that's just due to camera angle.

I realize that Estes is a simple retail production company. They are the Legos of the rocketry world. I loved Legos. I love Estes rockets.

I do, however, wish we had greater access to the tech data of the parts and a larger selection of individual parts. Repairs, clones and custom builds would be so much easier. But a man is allowed to dream, even if those dreams will fade lol.

K'Tesh, I might be missing something obvious, but I haven't spotted the difference between the two cones in your photo. Where's Waldo?

EXPjawa said:

K'Tesh, I might be missing something obvious, but I haven't spotted the difference between the two cones in your photo. Where's Waldo?

Click to expand...

If you look carefully, you'll notice that the one on the right has vertical "ridges" (three are visible, but only one is easy to see) on the shoulder whereas the one on the left has a smooth shoulder.




Now I'm thinking that I should grab my calipers and measure the shoulder's diameter. The older (smooth) version has a tighter fit in the body tubes than the new one. I suspect that the change was due to people having too many nosecones getting stuck (possibly damaging the body tube when trying to remove it, or causing darting issues), but that's just a guess. That said, I'm thinking that I'll swap out my older (non payload) rockets' nosecones with the new one. Having a tight nosecone isn't so bad when it's a payload section.

I believe the Estes Sentinel also used the PNc-60RL, I have one I built in the late 80s or early 90s.

rharshberger said:

I believe the Estes Sentinel also used the PNc-60RL, I have one I built in the late 80s or early 90s.

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It did.

I've got the majority of a Sentinel in a box.

I saw the rib on the shoulder, but due to the different angles the parts were held at, it wasn't clear that it wasn't on the older one. Maybe they reduced the shoulder diameter and added the rib (are there more than one?) as a means of easily refitting the cone to a body tube. I'd be easier to shave down a couple ribs to fit rather than a whole diameter. Some of Apogee's larger cones do this, or maybe it was someone else...

EXPjawa said:

I've got the majority of a Sentinel in a box.

I saw the rib on the shoulder, but due to the different angles the parts were held at, it wasn't clear that it wasn't on the older one. Maybe they reduced the shoulder diameter and added the rib (are there more than one?) as a means of easily refitting the cone to a body tube. I'd be easier to shave down a couple ribs to fit rather than a whole diameter. (snip)

Click to expand...

That's what I thought. It's not all that uncommon for Estes to change nosecone profiles (e.g. the PNC-50K, or the PNC-50Y), but to change the shoulder I don't think that's all that common (unless there's a change in the materials/methods used (blowmolded vs injection molded).

Just out of curiosity - and sorry in advance for the side track - what/when was changed on the -50Y? I ask because I've gotten two distinctly different (to my eye) shapes, both could be considered ogive, but one visually appeared leaner than the other. I attributed it to different suppliers. The one I bought from BMS was a little meatier in the mid section; it appeared to almost be a shorter ogive with a 1/2" or so base section that was near straight. The one I bought from ASP, OTOH, was thinner in the middle with an apparently longer ogive shape that came all the way to the base. I used the BMS cone when I built my ATD clone, being that I couldn't come up with a suitable PNC-50Y (the molded cone that I thought was a -50Y was about .3" too short), and its profile seemed to match the image on the face card better. However, when I kitted up a second one for my nephew, I used the ASP cone because it was what I had.

I don't know when the blowmolded -50Y changed, but it was some time after 1983. My proof comes from the instructions of the Estes Sizzler (1906). My first rocket sizzler was a single piece (blowmolded) -50Y, and the 2nd one I got (from Ebay) has the 2 piece injection molded nosecone. I like both shapes, but for separate reasons. So, I wish that the blowmolded version would be made available again (and that Semroc would produce balsa upscales of both).

Likewise the -50K. I like the old version compared to the new version (take a look at the change in the Alpha over the years). The new -50K is... more conical, and less satisfying aesthetically.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

EXPjawa said:

I'd be easier to shave down a couple ribs to fit rather than a whole diameter.

Click to expand...

I am starting to build the recent Solar Warrior kit and it has the "whole diameter" one. I fits very tightly and I am not looking forward to sanding down the sleeve.

Spacepirate R said:

I am starting to build the recent Solar Warrior kit and it has the "whole diameter" one. I fits very tightly and I am not looking forward to sanding down the sleeve.

Click to expand...

My 72665 nosecones from the assortment have the ridged shoulder, you could pick one of the assortments and swap it out, then use the tight one for a payload section.

Measured the shoulders of the nosecones tonight... Here's the results:

K'Tesh said:

I don't know when the blowmolded -50Y changed, but it was some time after 1983. My proof comes from the instructions of the Estes Sizzler (1906). My first rocket sizzler was a single piece (blowmolded) -50Y, and the 2nd one I got (from Ebay) has the 2 piece injection molded nosecone. I like both shapes, but for separate reasons. So, I wish that the blowmolded version would be made available again (and that Semroc would produce balsa upscales of both).

Likewise the -50K. I like the old version compared to the new version (take a look at the change in the Alpha over the years). The new -50K is... more conical, and less satisfying aesthetically.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

Click to expand...

I was just looking at Semroc/eRocket's site. It appears that they show -50Y & -50YP designs, which seem to match the two different profiles of the -50Y that I've noticed. The same is true for -50X, and -50K, both also showing a "P" version. I wonder if that indicates a general change in profile after the cone was converted to plastic. I haven't looked further to see where else this trend applied, but it does appear that Semroc offers us the choice of both profiles in several cases. That's nice to know. Its also nice that they've taken a lot of popular shapes and up/downscaled them across a range of sizes. The -50BA ramjet cone is available in -55 & -60 sizes. Now to just get them to go one further to BT70...

And now back to regular scheduled programming...

So Semroc is reproducing Estes parts?

Up and down scale versions sounds awesome. I'd love to see BMS start this trend as well. I decided yesterday that I love my PSII kits so much, and I have severely limited space to fly them, that I am going to build mini PSII rockets.

So once the 60NA is finalized, I get to hunt other cones. Ah the joys of scale rocketry.